AlaskanSandman Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Brandon the Builder: So not really a theory but more rather a look at all things said pertaining to Brandon the Builder and any links that may be associated with him given in chronological order as best as possible. With the occasion thoughts or questions or remarks to take notice of something for your own interpretation. This deals with the creation of dragons and possible the Others. As always i try to bring up some possibly interesting points not mentioned before. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Garth Greenhand Of all these, the greatest was his firstborn, Garth the Gardener, who made his home on the hill atop the Mander that in time became known as Highgarden, and wore a crown of flowers and vines. All of Garth Greenhand's other children did the Gardener homage as the rightful king of all men, everywhere. From his loins sprang House Gardener, whose kings ruled the Reach beneath the banner of a green hand for many thousands of years, until Aegon the Dragon and his sisters came to Westeros. The list is long, and many are the legends, for there is scarce a noble house in all the Reach that does not boast of descent from one of Garth Greenhand's countless children. Even the heroes of other lands and kingdoms are sometimes numbered amongst the offspring of the Greenhand. Brandon the Builder was descended from Garth by way of Brandon of the Bloody Blade, these tales would have us believe, whilst Lann the Clever was a bastard born to Florys the Fox in some tales or Rowan Gold-Tree in others. However, Lann the Clever's descent from Garth Greenhand is a tale told in the Reach. In the westerlands, it is more oft said that Lann cozened Garth Greenhand himself by posing as one of his sons (Garth had so many that ofttimes he grew confused), thus making off with part of the inheritance that rightly belonged to Garth's true children. So starting off with Brandon we are first told chronologically that he was born possibly in the south to Brandon of the Bloody Blade, son of Garth the Green, the First High King of Men. Though the first High King is buried in the North. So Garth may have ended his life in the north. If so, Brandon of the Bloody Blade may have as well, along with Brandon’s brother Owen Oakenshield. As there is an Oakenshield Castle at the Wall. Now im calling attention to Lann for a reason as one, Rowan is the 13th union of Garth the Green to produce a child. This ties to the Night’s King whom we will talk about later. Though important to mention now to keep in your mind, as they will pop up again being linked to the founding of Valyria. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown Such questions abound even to this day. Before the Doom of Valyria, maesters and archmaesters oft traveled to the Freehold in search of answers, but none were ever found. Septon Barth's claim that the Valyrians came to Westeros because their priests prophesied that the Doom of Man would come out of the land beyond the narrow sea can safely be dismissed as nonsense, as can many of Barth's queerer beliefs and suppositions. Now Septon Barth thinks it was Valyria who came to Westeros and maybe built the fortress upon Battle Isle. Though this contradicts what we’re told elsewhere about Valyria rising after the long night. Implying their creation during the Long Night or shortly before. Where as the fortress predates the Hightowers, who predate the Men who crossed the Arm of Dorne following Garth possibly. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown The reasons for the abandonment of the fortress and the fate of its builders, whoever they might have been, are likewise lost to us, but at some point we know that Battle Isle and its great stronghold came into the possession of the ancestors of House Hightower. Were they First Men, as most scholars believe today? Or did they mayhaps descend from the seafarers and traders who had settled at the top of Whispering Sound in earlier epochs, the men who came before the First Men? We cannot know. When first glimpsed in the pages of history, the Hightowers are already kings, ruling Oldtown from Battle Isle. The first "high tower," the chroniclers tell us, was made of wood and rose some fifty feet above the ancient fortress that was its foundation. Neither it, nor the taller timber towers that These sea faring people sound like the possible pirates who build the castle now with in the Citidel and its oldest part with a weirwood tree. These people also sound like the Iron Islanders who possibly first landed upon the 13 Farwynn Islands. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night's Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries. Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands Here again we get the association of Valyria’s founding to that of the Long Night. Furthermore Houses from the Reach and Westerlands as tied to it’s founding. We will come back to some of this more later as we reach Brandon the Builders later life and end. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Stormlands: House Durrandon Moreover, a tradition developed amongst the Storm Kings of old for naming the king's firstborn son and heir after Durran Godsgrief, founder of their line, further compounding the difficulties of the historian. The bewildering number of King Durrans has inevitably caused much confusion. The maesters of the Citadel of Oldtown have given numbers to many of these monarchs, in order to distinguish one from the other, but that was not the practice of the singers (unreliable at the best of times) who are our chief source for these times. The legends surrounding the founder of House Durrandon, Durran Godsgrief, all come to us through the singers. The songs tell us that Durran won the heart of Elenei, daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind. By yielding to a mortal's love, Elenei doomed herself to a mortal's death, and for this the gods who had given her birth hated the man she had taken for her lord husband. In their wroth, they sent howling winds and lashing rains to knock down every castle Durran dared to build, until a young boy helped him erect one so strong and cunningly made that it could defy their gales. The boy grew to be Brandon the Builder; Durran became the first Storm King. With Elenei at his side, he lived and reigned at Storm's End for a thousand years, or so the stories claim. Quote A Clash of Kings - Catelyn III Across rain-sodden fields and stony ridges, she could see the great castle of Storm's End rearing up against the sky, its back to the unseen sea. Beneath that mass of pale grey stone, the encircling army of Lord Stannis Baratheon looked as small and insignificant as mice with banners. The songs said that Storm's End had been raised in ancient days by Durran, the first Storm King, who had won the love of the fair Elenei, daughter of the sea god and the goddess of the wind. On the night of their wedding, Elenei had yielded her maidenhood to a mortal's love and thus doomed herself to a mortal's death, and her grieving parents had unleashed their wrath and sent the winds and waters to batter down Durran's hold. His friends and brothers and wedding guests were crushed beneath collapsing walls or blown out to sea, but Elenei sheltered Durran within her arms so he took no harm, and when the dawn came at last he declared war upon the gods and vowed to rebuild. Five more castles he built, each larger and stronger than the last, only to see them smashed asunder when the gale winds came howling up Shipbreaker Bay, driving great walls of water before them. His lords pleaded with him to build inland; his priests told him he must placate the gods by giving Elenei back to the sea; even his smallfolk begged him to relent. Durran would have none of it. A seventh castle he raised, most massive of all. Some said the children of the forest helped him build it, shaping the stones with magic; others claimed that a small boy told him what he must do, a boy who would grow to be Bran the Builder. No matter how the tale was told, the end was the same. Though the angry gods threw storm after storm against it, the seventh castle stood defiant, and Durran Godsgrief and fair Elenei dwelt there together until the end of their days. So the first thing we hear of Brandon is helping to build the last incarnation of Storm’s End that endures to this day and possibly aided by the Children of the Forest with the use of sorcery. Something we hear of again in one of Brandon’s later works. Though there is a contradiction of tales as Brandon supposedly builds Storm’s End with aid of COTF, but has to later seek them out and learn their speech later in life when the Long Night falls. Unless Brandon was also a boy when Winterfell happened? The Hightower is also attributed to Brandon or his son, also named Brandon. Brandon the Breaker? Or his brother Brandon the Night’s King? Or a different Brandon? Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The Reach: Oldtown The reasons for the abandonment of the fortress and the fate of its builders, whoever they might have been, are likewise lost to us, but at some point we know that Battle Isle and its great stronghold came into the possession of the ancestors of House Hightower. Were they First Men, as most scholars believe today? Or did they mayhaps descend from the seafarers and traders who had settled at the top of Whispering Sound in earlier epochs, the men who came before the First Men? We cannot know. When first glimpsed in the pages of history, the Hightowers are already kings, ruling Oldtown from Battle Isle. The first "high tower," the chroniclers tell us, was made of wood and rose some fifty feet above the ancient fortress that was its foundation. Neither it, nor the taller timber towers that followed in the centuries to come, were meant to be a dwelling; they were purely beacon towers, built to light a path for trading ships up the fog-shrouded waters of Whispering Sound. The early Hightowers lived amidst the gloomy halls, vaults, and chambers of the strange stone below. It was only with the building of the fifth tower, the first to be made entirely of stone, that the Hightower became a seat worthy of a great house. That tower, we are told, rose two hundred feet above the harbor. Some say it was designed by Brandon the Builder, whilst others name his son, another Brandon; the king who demanded it, and paid for it, is remembered as Uthor of the High Tower. Maris the Maid, the Most Fair, whose beauty was so renowned that fifty lords vied for her hand at the first tourney ever to be held in Westeros. (The victor was the Grey Giant, Argoth Stone-Skin, but Maris wed King Uthor of the High Tower before he could claim her, and Argoth spent the rest of his days raging outside the walls of Oldtown, roaring for his bride.) The origins of the Citadel are almost as mysterious as those of the Hightower itself. Most credit its founding to the second son of Uthor of the High Tower, Prince Peremore the Twisted. A sickly boy, born with a withered arm and twisted back, Peremore was bedridden for much of his short life but had an insatiable curiosity about the world beyond his window, so he turned to wise men, teachers, priests, healers, and singers, along with a certain number of wizards, alchemists, and sorcerers. It is said the prince had no greater pleasure in life than listening to these scholars argue with one another. When Peremore died, his brother King Urrigon bequeathed a large tract of land beside the Honeywine to "Peremore's pets," that they might establish themselves and continue teaching, learning, and questing after truth. And so they did. So this is relatively important as it gives us our characters over two generations. Uthor is of one generation with Brandon the Builder or his son, while Uthor’s son’s go on to from the Citidel. Of which there has likely been a Maester at the Wall and the Night’s fort since the first L.C. This is important as it means either Uthor or his son’s Peremore and Urrigon lived during the Long Night and may have fought on one side of the Battle. Quote A Game of Thrones - Catelyn I For her sake, Ned had built a small sept where she might sing to the seven faces of god, but the blood of the First Men still flowed in the veins of the Starks, and his own gods were the old ones, the nameless, faceless gods of the greenwood they shared with the vanished children of the forest. At the center of the grove an ancient weirwood brooded over a small pool where the waters were black and cold. "The heart tree," Ned called it. The weirwood's bark was white as bone, its leaves dark red, like a thousand bloodstained hands. A face had been carved in the trunk of the great tree, its features long and melancholy, the deep-cut eyes red with dried sap and strangely watchful. They were old, those eyes; older than Winterfell itself. They had seen Brandon the Builder set the first stone, if the tales were true; they had watched the castle's granite walls rise around them. It was said that the children of the forest had carved the faces in the trees during the dawn centuries before the coming of the First Men across the narrow sea. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell Hot springs such as the one beneath Winterfell have been shown to be heated by the furnaces of the world—the same fires that made the Fourteen Flames or the smoking mountain of Dragonstone. Yet the smallfolk of Winterfell and the winter town have been known to claim that the springs are heated by the breath of a dragon that sleeps beneath the castle. This is even more foolish than Mushroom's claims and need not be given any consideration. To the trained eye, the architecture of Winterfell is an amalgam of many different eras. And its vastness not only encompasses buildings but open areas as well. In fact, three acres alone are given over to an ancient godswood, where legend tells us Brandon the Builder once prayed to his gods. Whether this is true or not, the antiquity of the grove cannot be contested. And the godswood no doubt benefits from the hot springs that are contained within it, protecting the trees from the worst of the winter's chill. Indeed, the presence of the hot springs—which pepper the land around Winterfell—may be the chief reason why the First Men initially settled there. One can easily imagine the value that a ready source of water—and hot water, at that—would have had in the depths of a Northern winter. In recent centuries, the Starks have raised structures that have made direct use of these springs for the purpose of heating their dwellings. So the tree was there first and Brandon built the Castle around it. That the tree witnessed it all. So good likely hood that Bran the Cripple will be able to look back at this time and hear Brandon the Builder’s prayers. I hope Bran the Builder made a pretty blood sacrifice for Bran the Cripple. Almost funny to think of Brandon the Builder saying his prayers to future generations looking back on him. Though you have to also wonder about Bran the Builder being able to link into the tree’s at all or not. Quote A Game of Thrones - Bran IV "I could tell you the story about Brandon the Builder," Old Nan said. "That was always your favorite." Thousands and thousands of years ago, Brandon the Builder had raised Winterfell, and some said the Wall. Bran knew the story, but it had never been his favorite. Maybe one of the other Brandons had liked that story. Sometimes Nan would talk to him as if he were her Brandon, the baby she had nursed all those years ago, and sometimes she confused him with his uncle Brandon, who was killed by the Mad King before Bran was even born. She had lived so long, Mother had told him once, that all the Brandon Starks had become one person in her head. Quote A Game of Thrones - Eddard V "He was going to be a knight," Arya was saying now. "A knight of the Kingsguard. Can he still be a knight?" "No," Ned said. He saw no use in lying to her. "Yet someday he may be the lord of a great holdfast and sit on the king's council. He might raise castles like Brandon the Builder, or sail a ship across the Sunset Sea, or enter your mother's Faith and become the High Septon." But he will never run beside his wolf again, he thought with a sadness too deep for words, or lie with a woman, or hold his own son in his arms. Did some other Stark in history become High Septon???? Building Castles like Brandon the Builder or sail a ship across the sunset sea (Brandon the Shipwright) are all things Starks have actually done. The First high Septon was around 1300 years ago ( 1000 years before Aegon I). So something worth watching out for or keeping an eye out for (sounds like a bad BR joke now, is Martin being glib?) Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran III "Who holds this land?" Jojen asked Bran. "The Night's Watch," he answered. "This is the Gift. The New Gift, and north of that Brandon's Gift." Maester Luwin had taught him the history. "Brandon the Builder gave all the land south of the Wall to the black brothers, to a distance of twenty-five leagues. For their . . . for their sustenance and support." He was proud that he still remembered that part. "Some maesters say it was some other Brandon, not the Builder, but it's still Brandon's Gift. Thousands of years later, Good Queen Alysanne visited the Wall on her dragon Silverwing, and she thought the Night's Watch was so brave that she had the Old King double the size of their lands, to fifty leagues. So that was the New Gift." He waved a hand. "Here. All this." So another tale attributed to Bran the Builder or another. His son? If so then his son possibly gave the first gift (sounds like the Faceless men) and built the first Hightower. Quote A Storm of Swords - Jon V She looked as if she thought he was making that up. "How could men build so high, with no giants to lift the stones?" In legend, Brandon the Builder had used giants to help raise Winterfell, but Jon did not want to confuse the issue. "Men can build a lot higher than this. In Oldtown there's a tower taller than the Wall." He could tell she did not believe him. If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us. The dream was sweet . . . but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the King in the North. He was a Snow, not a Stark. Bastard, oathbreaker, and turncloak . . . So not only another link between Winterfell and the Hightower but also a link between Jon having the characteristics of the Night’s King. Note the Jon does die on his 13th pov chapter of Adwd. Quote A Storm of Swords - Samwell V "Your Grace, the Night's Watch has been choosing its own leader since Brandon the Builder raised the Wall. Through Jeor Mormont we have had nine hundred and ninety-seven Lords Commander in unbroken succession, each chosen by the men he would lead, a tradition many thousands of years old." So just to be clear, the Watch has always chosen its first leader since Brandon the Builder. Implying that Brandon was the First chosen Lord Commander. Not the first L.C. mind you, just the first chosen. I bring this up as the Night’s King is said to be the 13th L.C. as also the original foundations of the wall are made of stone. And the Blackgate is built beneath Castle Black into the stone wall foundation. Implying possibly that there was an original wall that predated the Ice Wall built by Bran the Builder. Make of this what you will. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - The North: Winterfell The greatest castle of the North is Winterfell, the seat of the Starks since the Dawn Age. Legend says that Brandon the Builder raised Winterfell after the generation-long winter known as the Long Night to become the stronghold of his descendants, the Kings of Winter. As Brandon the Builder is connected with an improbable number of great works (Storm's End and the Wall, to name but two prominent examples) over a span of numerous lifetimes, the tales have likely turned some ancient king, or a number of different kings of House Stark (for there have been many Brandons in the long reign of that family) into something more legendary. The castle itself is peculiar in that the Starks did not level the ground when laying down the foundations and walls of the castle. Very likely, this reveals that the castle was built in pieces over the years rather than being planned as a single structure. Some scholars suspect that it was once a complex of linked ringforts, though the centuries have eradicated almost all evidence of this. Or did he actually live for a long time? Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age Maester Childer's Winter's Kings, or the Legends and Lineages of the Starks of Winterfell contains a part of a ballad alleged to tell of the time Brandon the Builder sought the aid of the children while raising the Wall. He was taken to a secret place to meet with them, but could not at first understand their speech, which was described as sounding like the song of stones in a brook, or the wind through leaves, or the rain upon the water. The manner in which Brandon learned to comprehend the speech of the children is a tale in itself, and not worth repeating here. But it seems clear that their speech originated, or drew inspiration from, the sounds they heard every day. Now this actually connect to the Last Hero as far as I can tell who we’ll talk about soon, but it deals with something mentioned earlier about Brandon building Storm’s End with the help of the Children. So did Storm’s End get built after this encounter? This being towards the end of the Long Night and it’s war. Meaning the Other six were destroyed during the Long Night. Also this is important as Brandon is learning the speech and magic of the Children of the Forest before going off to fight the Others which ties to the next quote about Barth. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age Though considered disreputable in this, our present day, a fragment of Septon Barth's Unnatural History has proved a source of controversy in the halls of the Citadel. Claiming to have consulted with texts said to be preserved at Castle Black, Septon Barth put forth that the children of the forest could speak with ravens and could make them repeat their words. Quote A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion IV He was less hopeful concerning Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Unnatural History is Barth’s book on Dragons and their origins. So with in his book on Dragon Origins, Barth is talking about the Children of the Forest teaching men abilities now lost or passed down in degraded form. This is important as Brandon is here to learn from the Children. Is this when he learned how to commune and slip into animals which led to the creation of Dragons? And Valyria? Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Long Night How the Long Night came to an end is a matter of legend, as all such matters of the distant past have become. In the North, they tell of a last hero who sought out the intercession of the children of the forest, his companions abandoning him or dying one by one as they faced ravenous giants, cold servants, and the Others themselves. Alone he finally reached the children, despite the efforts of the white walkers, and all the tales agree this was a turning point. Thanks to the children, the first men of the Night's Watch banded together and were able to fight—and win—the Battle for the Dawn: the last battle that broke the endless winter and sent the Others fleeing to the icy north. Now, six thousand years later (or eight thousand as True History puts forward), the Wall made to defend the realms of men is still manned by the sworn brothers of the Night's Watch, and neither the Others nor the children have been seen in many centuries. Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands So here we get a tale of the Long Night and the last Hero uniting man against the Others in the Battle for the Dawn, and in the same page right after, is the link of Valyria’s founding to Houses of the Reach and Westerlands. Quote A Game of Thrones - Bran IV Her voice had dropped very low, almost to a whisper, and Bran found himself leaning forward to listen. "Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest. Yet here and there in the fastness of the woods the children still lived in their wooden cities and hollow hills, and the faces in the trees kept watch. So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds—" All Bran could think of was Old Nan's story of the Others and the last hero, hounded through the white woods by dead men and spiders big as hounds. He was afraid for a moment, until he remembered how that story ended. "The children will help him," he blurted, "the children of the forest!" Again this all seems tied to Brandon the Builder being the Last hero who goes and learns the speech and magic of the Children. The Last Hero and his twelve companions numbering 13. Quote A Feast for Crows - Samwell I "We knew all this. The question is, how do we fight them?" "The armor of the Others is proof against most ordinary blades, if the tales can be believed," said Sam, "and their own swords are so cold they shatter steel. Fire will dismay them, though, and they are vulnerable to obsidian." He remembered the one he had faced in the haunted forest, and how it had seemed to melt away when he stabbed it with the dragonglass dagger Jon had made for him. "I found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the last hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it." "Dragonsteel?" Jon frowned. "Valyrian steel?" Last hero had a dragon steel blade. Was it the first as some believe Azor Ahai is the Last Hero and that he was creating a magic sword? While others believe he was creating dragons. Quote A Clash of Kings - Davos I "Burnt," said Salladhor Saan, "and be glad of that, my friend. Do you know the tale of the forging of Lightbringer? I shall tell it to you. It was a time when darkness lay heavy on the world. To oppose it, the hero must have a hero's blade, oh, like none that had ever been. And so for thirty days and thirty nights Azor Ahai labored sleepless in the temple, forging a blade in the sacred fires. Heat and hammer and fold, heat and hammer and fold, oh, yes, until the sword was done. Yet when he plunged it into water to temper the steel it burst asunder. "Being a hero, it was not for him to shrug and go in search of excellent grapes such as these, so again he began. The second time it took him fifty days and fifty nights, and this sword seemed even finer than the first. Azor Ahai captured a lion, to temper the blade by plunging it through the beast's red heart, but once more the steel shattered and split. Great was his woe and great was his sorrow then, for he knew what he must do. "A hundred days and a hundred nights he labored on the third blade, and as it glowed white-hot in the sacred fires, he summoned his wife. 'Nissa Nissa,' he said to her, for that was her name, 'bare your breast, and know that I love you best of all that is in this world.' She did this thing, why I cannot say, and Azor Ahai thrust the smoking sword through her living heart. It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel. Such is the tale of the forging of Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes .Is this the blade carried by the Last Hero? Or is it Dragons? Remember what we said about the creation of Valyria tied to the Long Night and Houses from the Reach and Westerlands? Why not Houses of the North? Like House Stark who is tied to the Night’s King? Could it be that the Last Hero and Azor Ahai were indeed two different men? We’ll discuss more at the end about this. Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran IV The Nightfort had figured in some of Old Nan's scariest stories. It was here that Night's King had reigned, before his name was wiped from the memory of man. He had been the thirteenth man to lead the Night's Watch, she said; a warrior who knew no fear. "And that was the fault in him," she would add, "for all men must know fear." A woman was his downfall; a woman glimpsed from atop the Wall, with skin as white as the moon and eyes like blue stars. Fearing nothing, he chased her and caught her and loved her, though her skin was cold as ice, and when he gave his seed to her he gave his soul as well. He brought her back to the Nightfort and proclaimed her a queen and himself her king, and with strange sorceries he bound his Sworn Brothers to his will. For thirteen years they had ruled, Night's King and his corpse queen, till finally the Stark of Winterfell and Joramun of the wildlings had joined to free the Watch from bondage. After his fall, when it was found he had been sacrificing to the Others, all records of Night's King had been destroyed, his very name forbidden. "Some say he was a Bolton," Old Nan would always end. "Some say a Magnar out of Skagos, some say Umber, Flint, or Norrey. Some would have you think he was a Woodfoot, from them who ruled Bear Island before the ironmen came. He never was. He was a Stark, the brother of the man who brought him down." She always pinched Bran on the nose then, he would never forget it. "He was a Stark of Winterfell, and who can say? Mayhaps his name was Brandon. Mayhaps he slept in this very bed in this very room." No, Bran thought, but he walked in this castle, where we'll sleep tonight. He did not like that notion very much at all. Night's King was only a man by light of day, Old Nan would always say, but the night was his to rule. And it's getting dark. The Reeds decided that they would sleep in the kitchens, a stone octagon with a broken dome. It looked to offer better shelter than most of the other buildings, even though a crooked weirwood had burst up through the slate floor beside the huge central well, stretching slantwise toward the hole in the roof, its bone-white branches reaching for the sun. It was a queer kind of tree, skinnier than any other weirwood that Bran had ever seen and faceless as well, but it made him feel as if the old gods were with him here, at least. This is a curious tale as it’s after the War for the Dawn as far as we can tell, yet the Others are still alive. Further he is the 13th L.C. since the founding of the Watch by Brandon the Builder. Brandon either lived for a long time or it’s one of his kids. Problem is the Others are already around and no reason to link Brandon who built the Wall or the Night’s King to the Creation of the Others. I have talked elsewhere about my thoughts on the creation of the Others and they have nothing to do with Brandon the Builder , but rather his father. Brandon of the Bloody Blade and son of Garth the Green that I think Is the Grey King, who’s turning grey throughout his long reign was an effect of the Curse place on the Barrow of the First King, Garth the Green. Whom the Grey King may have betrayed as the Grey King is linked with attacking and killing Ygg the pale demon tree that fed on human flesh. And Garth is linked to Blood Sacrifices to ensure bountiful harvest as a god. So it may be that Brandon the Builder was already an Other. Or his father turned after Brandon the Builders birth so that he is still mortal man or warm blood. Edit- It's worth noting that Bran talks about the Night's King and 13th L.C. who served for 13 years of the watch who loved a pale woman, before passing beyond the Wall to meet Bloodraven who was L.C. who served for 13 years and loved a pale woman. Also Bran meets BR on the 13th Chapter of ADWD. Quote A Storm of Swords - Bran IV A turn or two later Sam stopped suddenly. He was a quarter of the way around the well from Bran and Hodor and six feet farther down, yet Bran could barely see him. He could see the door, though. The Black Gate, Sam had called it, but it wasn't black at all. It was white weirwood, and there was a face on it. A glow came from the wood, like milk and moonlight, so faint it scarcely seemed to touch anything beyond the door itself, not even Sam standing right before it. The face was old and pale, wrinkled and shrunken. It looks dead. Its mouth was closed, and its eyes; its cheeks were sunken, its brow withered, its chin sagging. If a man could live for a thousand years and never die but just grow older, his face might come to look like that. The door opened its eyes. They were white too, and blind. "Who are you?" the door asked, and the well whispered, "Who-who-who-who-who-who-who." "I am the sword in the darkness," Samwell Tarly said. "I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers. I am the shield that guards the realms of men." "Then pass," the door said. Its lips opened, wide and wider and wider still, until nothing at all remained but a great gaping mouth in a ring of wrinkles. Sam stepped aside and waved Jojen through ahead of him. Summer followed, sniffing as he went, and then it was Bran's turn. Hodor ducked, but not low enough. The door's upper lip brushed softly against the top of Bran's head, and a drop of water fell on him and ran slowly down his nose. It was strangely warm, and salty as a tear. The Old Gods are with them. Is this the Heart of the Weirwood Network? Or just It’s head and mouth? Certainly the only weirwood we’ve seen talk. Is the Night’s King second life in this Gate? Is it Garth the Green? Ygg? Quote A Clash of Kings - Jon III "Wildlings have invaded the realm before." Jon had heard the tales from Old Nan and Maester Luwin both, back at Winterfell. "Raymun Redbeard led them south in the time of my grandfather's grandfather, and before him there was a king named Bael the Bard." "Aye, and long before them came the Horned Lord and the brother kings Gendel and Gorne, and in ancient days Joramun, who blew the Horn of Winter and woke giants from the earth. Each man of them broke his strength on the Wall, or was broken by the power of Winterfell on the far side . . . but the Night's Watch is only a shadow of what we were, and who remains to oppose the wildlings besides us? The Lord of Winterfell is dead, and his heir has marched his strength south to fight the Lannisters. The wildlings may never again have such a chance as this. I knew Mance Rayder, Jon. He is an oathbreaker, yes . . . but he has eyes to see, and no man has ever dared to name him faintheart." So it’s interesting that Jorumun fought with Brandon the Breaker but was later broken by him. Was it for having the Horn of Jorumun? The Horn of Winter? If it’s his and he made it then he knew magic. Why help the Stark King only to betray him? Or did the Stark King Betray him? Quote A Storm of Swords - Jon II In Old Nan's stories, giants were outsized men who lived in colossal castles, fought with huge swords, and walked about in boots a boy could hide in. These were something else, more bearlike than human, and as wooly as the mammoths they rode. Seated, it was hard to say how big they truly were. Ten feet tall maybe, or twelve, Jon thought. Maybe fourteen, but no taller. Their sloping chests might have passed for those of men, but their arms hung down too far, and their lower torsos looked half again as wide as their upper. Their legs were shorter than their arms, but very thick, and they wore no boots at all; their feet were broad splayed things, hard and horny and black. Neckless, their huge heavy heads thrust forward from between their shoulder blades, and their faces were squashed and brutal. Rats' eyes no larger than beads were almost lost within folds of horny flesh, but they snuffled constantly, smelling as much as they saw. They're not wearing skins, Jon realized. That's hair. Shaggy pelts covered their bodies, thick below the waist, sparser above. The stink that came off them was choking, but perhaps that was the mammoths. And Joramun blew the Horn of Winter, and woke giants from the earth. He looked for great swords ten feet long, but saw only clubs. Most were just the limbs of dead trees, some still trailing shattered branches. A few had stone balls lashed to the ends to make colossal mauls. The song never says if the horn can put them back to sleep. One of the giants coming up on them looked older than the rest. His pelt was grey and streaked with white, and the mammoth he rode, larger than any of the others, was grey and white as well. Tormund shouted something up to him as he passed, harsh clanging words in a tongue that Jon did not comprehend. The giant's lips split apart to reveal a mouth full of huge square teeth, and he made a sound half belch and half rumble. After a moment Jon realized he was laughing. The mammoth turned its massive head to regard the two of them briefly, one huge tusk passing over the top of Jon's head as the beast lumbered by, leaving huge footprints in the soft mud and fresh snow along the river. The giant shouted down something in the same coarse tongue that Tormund had used. And yet everything we’re shown of Giants sound more like over grown apes with squashed in faces rather than the terrifying ones of legend. Was Brandon the Builder a Giant? His uncle came from a Giantess and Garth the Green. Jon the Oak. So let’s take a look at dragons real quick and what Barth has to say. Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Sothoryos Unsurprisingly, Sothoryos is thinly peopled when compared to Westeros or Essos. A score of small trade towns cling to the northern coast—towns of mud and blood, as some say: wet and humid and full of misery, where adventurers, rogues, exiles, and whores from the Free Cities and the Seven Kingdoms come to make their fortunes. In Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns, he speculated that the bloodmages of Valyria used wyvern stock to create dragons. Though the bloodmages were alleged to have experimented mightily with their unnatural arts, this claim is considered far-fetched by most maesters, among them Maester Vanyon's Against the Unnatural contains certain proofs of dragons having existed in Westeros even in the earliest of days, before Valyria rose to be a power. Well this is certainly possible for how the dragons were first created and seems very logical. Though was it really the Valyrians who did this, or someone else who taught the Valyrians how to bind them to their blood? Quote A Feast for Crows - Arya II "The tale of our beginnings. If you would be one of us, you had best know who we are and how we came to be. Men may whisper of the Faceless Men of Braavos, but we are older than the Secret City. Before the Titan rose, before the Unmasking of Uthero, before the Founding, we were. We have flowered in Braavos amongst these northern fogs, but we first took root in Valyria, amongst the wretched slaves who toiled in the deep mines beneath the Fourteen Flames that lit the Freehold's nights of old. Most mines are dank and chilly places, cut from cold dead stone, but the Fourteen Flames were living mountains with veins of molten rock and hearts of fire. So the mines of old Valyria were always hot, and they grew hotter as the shafts were driven deeper, ever deeper. The slaves toiled in an oven. The rocks around them were too hot to touch. The air stank of brimstone and would sear their lungs as they breathed it. The soles of their feet would burn and blister, even through the thickest sandals. Sometimes, when they broke through a wall in search of gold, they would find steam instead, or boiling water, or molten rock. Certain shafts were cut so low that the slaves could not stand upright, but had to crawl or bend. And there were wyrms in that red darkness too." "Earthworms?" she asked, frowning. "Firewyrms. Some say they are akin to dragons, for wyrms breathe fire too. Instead of soaring through the sky, they bore through stone and soil. If the old tales can be believed, there were wyrms amongst the Fourteen Flames even before the dragons came. The young ones are no larger than that skinny arm of yours, but they can grow to monstrous size and have no love for men." "Did they kill the slaves?" "Burnt and blackened corpses were oft found in shafts where the rocks were cracked or full of holes. Yet still the mines drove deeper. Slaves perished by the score, but their masters did not care. Red gold and yellow gold and silver were reckoned to be more precious than the lives of slaves, for slaves were cheap in the old Freehold. During war, the Valyrians took them by the thousands. In times of peace they bred them, though only the worst were sent down to die in the red darkness." Quote A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys VIII . They would not hold much longer … but behind them was only earth and stone. Can dragons tunnel through rock, like the firewyrms of old Valyria? She hoped not. Ok, so we know that firewyrms come from Valyria, so there is definitely a connection to Valyria. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Sothoryos Men have known of the existence of the vast, savage land to the south since the first of them took to the sea in ships, for only the width of the Summer Sea separates Sothoryos from the ancient civilizations and great cities of Essos and Westeros. The Ghiscari established outposts on its northern shores in the days of the Old Empire. They raised the walled city Zamettar at the mouth of the river Zamoyos, and built the grim penal colony Gorosh on Wyvern Point. Qartheen adventurers hungry for profit sought gold, gems, and ivory along the eastern coasts of Sothoryos. Summer Islanders did the same in the west. The Freehold of Valyria thrice established colonies on Basilisk Point: the first was destroyed by the Brindled Men, the second lost to plague, and the third was abandoned when the dragonlords captured Zamettar in the Fourth Ghiscari War. And yet this place was only taken by the Valyians after the Long Night when Valyria already had dragons and won the land from the Ghiscari who had held it first. So this cuts the chances of Valyria having created the dragons. Instead it either suggest the Ghiscari who had it before them. Though the Ghiscari could have just claimed it after the fall of the Empire of the Dawn following the Long Night. This would explain Yeen which does not sound Ghiscari in origin. Though hard to tell as we have never actually seen Old Ghis. Though it does match features of the Five Forts made by the Empire of the Dawn. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Sothoryos Farther south lie the regions known as the Green Hell, where beasts even more fearsome are said to dwell. There, if the tales are to be trusted, are caverns full of pale white vampire bats who can drain the blood from a man in minutes. Tattooed lizards stalk the jungles, running down their prey and ripping them apart with the long curved claws on their powerful hind legs. Snakes fifty feet long slither through the underbrush, and spotted spiders weave their webs amongst the great trees. Most terrible of all are the wyverns, those tyrants of the southern skies, with their great leathery wings, cruel beaks, and insatiable hunger. Close kin to dragons, wyverns cannot breathe fire, but they exceed their cousins in ferocity and are a match for them in all other respects save size. Brindled wyverns, with their distinctive jadeand-white scales, grow up to thirty feet long. Swamp wyverns have been known to attain even greater size, though they are sluggish by nature and seldom fly far from their lairs. Brownbellies, no larger than monkeys, are even more dangerous than their larger kin, for they hunt in packs of a hundred or more. But most dreaded of all is the shadow-wing, a nocturnal monster whose black scales and wings make him all but invisible...until he descends out of the darkness to tear apart his prey. Quote The World of Ice and Fire - Ancient History: The Dawn Age Legend further holds that the greenseers could also delve into the past and see far into the future. But as all our learning has shown us, the higher mysteries that claim this power also claim that their visions of the things to come are unclear and often misleading—a useful thing to say when seeking to fool the unwary with fortune-telling. Though the children had arts of their own, the truth must always be separated from superstition, and knowledge must be tested and made sure. The higher mysteries, the arts of magic, were and are beyond the boundaries of our mortal ability to examine. Though considered disreputable in this, our present day, a fragment of Septon Barth's Unnatural History has proved a source of controversy in the halls of the Citadel. Claiming to have consulted with texts said to be preserved at Castle Black, Septon Barth put forth that the children of the forest could speak with ravens and could make them repeat their words. According to Barth, this higher mystery was taught to the First Men by the children so that ravens could spread messages at a great distance. It was passed, in degraded form, down to the maesters today, who no longer know how to speak to the birds. It is true that our order understands the speech of ravens...but this means the basic purposes of their cawing and rasping, their signs of fear and anger, and the means by which they display their readiness to mate or their lack of health. Unnatural History is Barth’s book on Dragons and their origins. So with in his book on Dragon Origins, Barth is talking about the Children of the Forest teaching men abilities now lost or passed down in degraded form. Whoever these first people were, it may be possible that Garth and Brandon the Builder were part of the line from the Empire of the Dawn. That perhaps some of the family (The North) became tied to the Others and the Night’s King somehow, and that some of the southern houses (Westerlands and Reach) were tied to the founding of Valyria. Perhaps by breeding with the people already on the land of Valyria and giving them the blood of the dragon? Or by simply teaching them how to bind dragons to them. Maybe the first to create dragons went on to found Valyria after the Long Night? Or his kids did? It seems rather possible though that Azor Ahai is tied to those Houses from the Westerlands and Reach, while the Last Hero is tied to Brandon the Builder. Though as learning the speech of the Children of the Forest being in Barths book about Dragon origins is a strong implication that Dragons are tied to Brandon the Builder and Last Hero. So perhaps Brandon the Builder comes from a Man of the Reach (Brandon of the Bloody Blade) and a woman of the Westerlands? Lann and Brann do sound similar and are of the same possible generation as each other. Could they be the same? Could they be brothers? Before I end this I want to point out that Peremore and Urrigon are cousins of Brandon the Builder through his aunt Maris the Maid. Their link to the creation of the Citidel and Maesters who are even found at the wall serving at the Night Fort. Who was the Maester to the Night’s King? Who was the Maester to his brother Brandon the Breaker? How is this connected to their family in the South? And how is Jorumun and his horn connected to this all. Let me know any thoughts on what you think maybe happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free Northman Reborn Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 11 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said: Brandon the Builder: So not really a theory but more rather a look at all things said pertaining to Brandon the Builder and any links that may be associated with him given in chronological order as best as possible. With the occasion thoughts or questions or remarks to take notice of something for your own interpretation. This deals with the creation of dragons and possible the Others. As always i try to bring up some possibly interesting points not mentioned before. So starting off with Brandon we are first told chronologically that he was born possibly in the south to Brandon of the Bloody Blade, son of Garth the Green, the First High King of Men. Though the first High King is buried in the North. So Garth may have ended his life in the north. If so, Brandon of the Bloody Blade may have as well, along with Brandon’s brother Owen Oakenshield. As there is an Oakenshield Castle at the Wall. Now im calling attention to Lann for a reason as one, Rowan is the 13th union of Garth the Green to produce a child. This ties to the Night’s King whom we will talk about later. Though important to mention now to keep in your mind, as they will pop up again being linked to the founding of Valyria. Now Septon Barth thinks it was Valyria who came to Westeros and maybe built the fortress upon Battle Isle. Though this contradicts what we’re told elsewhere about Valyria rising after the long night. Implying their creation during the Long Night or shortly before. Where as the fortress predates the Hightowers, who predate the Men who crossed the Arm of Dorne following Garth possibly. These sea faring people sound like the possible pirates who build the castle now with in the Citidel and its oldest part with a weirwood tree. These people also sound like the Iron Islanders who possibly first landed upon the 13 Farwynn Islands. Here again we get the association of Valyria’s founding to that of the Long Night. Furthermore Houses from the Reach and Westerlands as tied to it’s founding. We will come back to some of this more later as we reach Brandon the Builders later life and end. So the first thing we hear of Brandon is helping to build the last incarnation of Storm’s End that endures to this day and possibly aided by the Children of the Forest with the use of sorcery. Something we hear of again in one of Brandon’s later works. Though there is a contradiction of tales as Brandon supposedly builds Storm’s End with aid of COTF, but has to later seek them out and learn their speech later in life when the Long Night falls. Unless Brandon was also a boy when Winterfell happened? The Hightower is also attributed to Brandon or his son, also named Brandon. Brandon the Breaker? Or his brother Brandon the Night’s King? Or a different Brandon? So this is relatively important as it gives us our characters over two generations. Uthor is of one generation with Brandon the Builder or his son, while Uthor’s son’s go on to from the Citidel. Of which there has likely been a Maester at the Wall and the Night’s fort since the first L.C. This is important as it means either Uthor or his son’s Peremore and Urrigon lived during the Long Night and may have fought on one side of the Battle. So the tree was there first and Brandon built the Castle around it. That the tree witnessed it all. So good likely hood that Bran the Cripple will be able to look back at this time and hear Brandon the Builder’s prayers. I hope Bran the Builder made a pretty blood sacrifice for Bran the Cripple. Almost funny to think of Brandon the Builder saying his prayers to future generations looking back on him. Though you have to also wonder about Bran the Builder being able to link into the tree’s at all or not. Did some other Stark in history become High Septon???? Building Castles like Brandon the Builder or sail a ship across the sunset sea (Brandon the Shipwright) are all things Starks have actually done. The First high Septon was around 1300 years ago ( 1000 years before Aegon I). So something worth watching out for or keeping an eye out for (sounds like a bad BR joke now, is Martin being glib?) So another tale attributed to Bran the Builder or another. His son? If so then his son possibly gave the first gift (sounds like the Faceless men) and built the first Hightower. So not only another link between Winterfell and the Hightower but also a link between Jon having the characteristics of the Night’s King. Note the Jon does die on his 13th pov chapter of Adwd. So just to be clear, the Watch has always chosen its first leader since Brandon the Builder. Implying that Brandon was the First chosen Lord Commander. Not the first L.C. mind you, just the first chosen. I bring this up as the Night’s King is said to be the 13th L.C. as also the original foundations of the wall are made of stone. And the Blackgate is built beneath Castle Black into the stone wall foundation. Implying possibly that there was an original wall that predated the Ice Wall built by Bran the Builder. Make of this what you will. Or did he actually live for a long time? Now this actually connect to the Last Hero as far as I can tell who we’ll talk about soon, but it deals with something mentioned earlier about Brandon building Storm’s End with the help of the Children. So did Storm’s End get built after this encounter? This being towards the end of the Long Night and it’s war. Meaning the Other six were destroyed during the Long Night. Also this is important as Brandon is learning the speech and magic of the Children of the Forest before going off to fight the Others which ties to the next quote about Barth. This is important as Brandon is here to learn from the Children. Is this when he learned how to commune and slip into animals which led to the creation of Dragons? And Valyria? So here we get a tale of the Long Night and the last Hero uniting man against the Others in the Battle for the Dawn, and in the same page right after, is the link of Valyria’s founding to Houses of the Reach and Westerlands. Again this all seems tied to Brandon the Builder being the Last hero who goes and learns the speech and magic of the Children. The Last Hero and his twelve companions numbering 13. Last hero had a dragon steel blade. Was it the first as some believe Azor Ahai is the Last Hero and that he was creating a magic sword? While others believe he was creating dragons. .Is this the blade carried by the Last Hero? Or is it Dragons? Remember what we said about the creation of Valyria tied to the Long Night and Houses from the Reach and Westerlands? Why not Houses of the North? Like House Stark who is tied to the Night’s King? Could it be that the Last Hero and Azor Ahai were indeed two different men? We’ll discuss more at the end about this. This is a curious tale as it’s after the War for the Dawn as far as we can tell, yet the Others are still alive. Further he is the 13th L.C. since the founding of the Watch by Brandon the Builder. Brandon either lived for a long time or it’s one of his kids. Problem is the Others are already around and no reason to link Brandon who built the Wall or the Night’s King to the Creation of the Others. I have talked elsewhere about my thoughts on the creation of the Others and they have nothing to do with Brandon the Builder , but rather his father. Brandon of the Bloody Blade and son of Garth the Green that I think Is the Grey King, who’s turning grey throughout his long reign was an effect of the Curse place on the Barrow of the First King, Garth the Green. Whom the Grey King may have betrayed as the Grey King is linked with attacking and killing Ygg the pale demon tree that fed on human flesh. And Garth is linked to Blood Sacrifices to ensure bountiful harvest as a god. So it may be that Brandon the Builder was already an Other. Or his father turned after Brandon the Builders birth so that he is still mortal man or warm blood. Edit- It's worth noting that Bran talks about the Night's King and 13th L.C. who served for 13 years of the watch who loved a pale woman, before passing beyond the Wall to meet Bloodraven who was L.C. who served for 13 years and loved a pale woman. Also Bran meets BR on the 13th Chapter of ADWD. The Old Gods are with them. Is this the Heart of the Weirwood Network? Or just It’s head and mouth? Certainly the only weirwood we’ve seen talk. Is the Night’s King second life in this Gate? Is it Garth the Green? Ygg? So it’s interesting that Jorumun fought with Brandon the Breaker but was later broken by him. Was it for having the Horn of Jorumun? The Horn of Winter? If it’s his and he made it then he knew magic. Why help the Stark King only to betray him? Or did the Stark King Betray him? And yet everything we’re shown of Giants sound more like over grown apes with squashed in faces rather than the terrifying ones of legend. Was Brandon the Builder a Giant? His uncle came from a Giantess and Garth the Green. Jon the Oak. So let’s take a look at dragons real quick and what Barth has to say. Septon Barth's Dragons, Wyrms, and Wyverns: Their Unnatural History. Well this is certainly possible for how the dragons were first created and seems very logical. Though was it really the Valyrians who did this, or someone else who taught the Valyrians how to bind them to their blood? Ok, so we know that firewyrms come from Valyria, so there is definitely a connection to Valyria. And yet this place was only taken by the Valyians after the Long Night when Valyria already had dragons and won the land from the Ghiscari who had held it first. So this cuts the chances of Valyria having created the dragons. Instead it either suggest the Ghiscari who had it before them. Though the Ghiscari could have just claimed it after the fall of the Empire of the Dawn following the Long Night. This would explain Yeen which does not sound Ghiscari in origin. Though hard to tell as we have never actually seen Old Ghis. Though it does match features of the Five Forts made by the Empire of the Dawn. Unnatural History is Barth’s book on Dragons and their origins. So with in his book on Dragon Origins, Barth is talking about the Children of the Forest teaching men abilities now lost or passed down in degraded form. Whoever these first people were, it may be possible that Garth and Brandon the Builder were part of the line from the Empire of the Dawn. That perhaps some of the family (The North) became tied to the Others and the Night’s King somehow, and that some of the southern houses (Westerlands and Reach) were tied to the founding of Valyria. Perhaps by breeding with the people already on the land of Valyria and giving them the blood of the dragon? Or by simply teaching them how to bind dragons to them. Maybe the first to create dragons went on to found Valyria after the Long Night? Or his kids did? It seems rather possible though that Azor Ahai is tied to those Houses from the Westerlands and Reach, while the Last Hero is tied to Brandon the Builder. Though as learning the speech of the Children of the Forest being in Barths book about Dragon origins is a strong implication that Dragons are tied to Brandon the Builder and Last Hero. So perhaps Brandon the Builder comes from a Man of the Reach (Brandon of the Bloody Blade) and a woman of the Westerlands? Lann and Brann do sound similar and are of the same possible generation as each other. Could they be the same? Could they be brothers? Before I end this I want to point out that Peremore and Urrigon are cousins of Brandon the Builder through his aunt Maris the Maid. Their link to the creation of the Citidel and Maesters who are even found at the wall serving at the Night Fort. Who was the Maester to the Night’s King? Who was the Maester to his brother Brandon the Breaker? How is this connected to their family in the South? And how is Jorumun and his horn connected to this all. Let me know any thoughts on what you think maybe happening Couple of comments. First, I think you misinterpret Archmaester Fomas. The quote from your post is as follows: Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands.. Well, that refers to two reasons why Fomas's writings are disregarded today. One reason relates to supposed errors regarding the founding of Valyria. The second and unrelated reason, relates to certain lineal claims in the Reach and Westerlands. If you read it carefully, the issue of Valyria is not related to the issue of the lineal claims in the Reach and the Westerlands. He made certain errors with regard to his history of the founding of Valyria, and he made certain other errors regarding certain (unknown) lineal claims in the Reach and the Westerlands. These could be lineal claims dealing with some random Reach family's claim of descent from House Gardener, or some minor Westerland family's claim to Casterly Rock or any of a myriad of possible lineal claims in those two regions. It is not saying that the Valyrians have any lineal claims in Westeros. The two issues are not connected. They are two separate erroneous claims made by Maester Fomas. One dealing with Valyria, and one dealing with lineal claims in the Reach and Westerlands. Point two is that I think our Bran is the culmination of thousands of years of greenseer lore, and will be the first greenseer to be able to reach back in time and talk to certain past figures, through the weirwoods. Maybe even skinchange into them. Thus he will be Bran the Builder, acting through a number of different "Brandons" over the centuries. One may have lived in the Stormlands to help build Storm's End, another may have built Winterfell, another the Hightower and another the Wall. I think Bran was all of them. And that's why the tales of Brandon the Builder are so diverse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaskanSandman Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: Couple of comments. First, I think you misinterpret Archmaester Fomas. The quote from your post is as follows: Archmaester Fomas's Lies of the Ancients—though little regarded these days for its erroneous claims regarding the founding of Valyria and certain lineal claims in the Reach and westerlands.. Well, that refers to two reasons why Fomas's writings are disregarded today. One reason relates to supposed errors regarding the founding of Valyria. The second and unrelated reason, relates to certain lineal claims in the Reach and Westerlands. If you read it carefully, the issue of Valyria is not related to the issue of the lineal claims in the Reach and the Westerlands. He made certain errors with regard to his history of the founding of Valyria, and he made certain other errors regarding certain (unknown) lineal claims in the Reach and the Westerlands. These could be lineal claims dealing with some random Reach family's claim of descent from House Gardener, or some minor Westerland family's claim to Casterly Rock or any of a myriad of possible lineal claims in those two regions. It is not saying that the Valyrians have any lineal claims in Westeros. The two issues are not connected. They are two separate erroneous claims made by Maester Fomas. One dealing with Valyria, and one dealing with lineal claims in the Reach and Westerlands. Point two is that I think our Bran is the culmination of thousands of years of greenseer lore, and will be the first greenseer to be able to reach back in time and talk to certain past figures, through the weirwoods. Maybe even skinchange into them. Thus he will be Bran the Builder, acting through a number of different "Brandons" over the centuries. One may have lived in the Stormlands to help build Storm's End, another may have built Winterfell, another the Hightower and another the Wall. I think Bran was all of them. And that's why the tales of Brandon the Builder are so diverse. You lost me hahaha sorry. Not a fan of that theory at allllllllllllllllllllllll. It doesn't make sense no matter who explains it hahah well best one i heard was tied to the show and bran slipping into the Night's King the moment he was turned. Only good one ive heard but not book related. This is just one of those ones ill never be on board with and if it turns out to be true, i would be displeased. I dont like time gimmicks like that, or much at all. Most get wrong how time works and also opens up a huge theoretical discussion on whether or not it's even possible. And i dont mean technology wise, i mean laws of reality wise. Check the "Grandfather Theory". The past being a creation of the future is contradictory to the flow of time, the way light and information travels, and entropy. That's just my personal take though and obviously goes beyond the novel. And yea you can believe Yandel that he was wrong, im sure that's why it was randomly mentioned. Cause it's wrong haha. Though i would obviously argue that he was right and that's why it's being mentioned. It is how ever being mentioned along with the Long Night, which is when Valyria is believed to have first started. And also backed up else where by comments on Serwyn of the Mirror Shield serving a Targaryen King in his Kings Guard. Then turns around and list 5 Gardener kings he may have served. Suggesting that House Gardener is one of the Houses of the reach who's lineal lines are tied to the founding of Valyria. Suggesting the first men were Valyrians or Pre-Valyrians. (Empire of the Dawn?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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