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AlaskanSandman

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  1. Interesting. Im not sure about the aging fast after having kids though. Is their pretext for this? Ive always been partial to the idea that Melisandre is the Bleeding Star. Bloodraven (Bleeding) Shiera Sea(star). That Mel is quite old and wearing a glamour to hide her age.
  2. None? Not one example you can think of? Not one instance of "Kings blood" being used? Not even touching the show and Shereen. Melisandre hasn't used anyone for the "Kings Blood"? You don't think Melisandre would give over a baby to the flames for her Stannis Azor. Aemon thought Rhaegar was the one, I don't recall Aegon thinking Rhaegar was. For all we know, Aegon thought he himself was the promised prince. Making Rhaegar's kingsblood a needed thing. Aemon could've only started thinking Rhaegar after Rhaegar survived Summerhall, only to switch when Rhaegar suspected his own son. A Dance with Dragons - Daenerys IV Ser Barristan went on. "I saw your father and your mother wed as well. Forgive me, but there was no fondness there, and the realm paid dearly for that, my queen." "Why did they wed if they did not love each other?" "Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line." Aegon V did not command it, his son Jaehaerys did. There is no word about Aegon V believing it was Rhaegar The World of Ice and Fire - The Targaryen Kings: Aegon V Even that could not restore the peace, nor win back the friendship of Storm's End, however. The father of the spurned girl, Lord Lyonel Baratheon of Storm's End—known as the Laughing Storm and famed for his prowess in battle—was not a man easily appeased when his pride was wounded. A short, bloody rebellion ensued, ending only when Ser Duncan of the Kingsguard defeated Lord Lyonel in single combat, and King Aegon gave his solemn word that his youngest daughter, Rhaelle, would wed Lord Lyonel's heir. To seal the bargain, Princess Rhaelle was sent to Storm's End to serve as Lord Lyonel's cupbearer and companion to his lady wife. Jenny of Oldstones—Lady Jenny, as she was called by courtesy—was eventually accepted at court, and throughout the Seven Kingdoms the smallfolk held her especially dear. She and her prince, forever after known as the Prince of Dragonflies, were a favorite subject of singers for many years. Jenny of Oldstones was accompanied to court by a dwarfish, albino woman who was reputed to be a woods witch in the riverlands. Lady Jenny herself claimed, in her ignorance, that she was a child of the forest. There is also the issue of Jenny and the Prince of Draonflies kids. Summerhall was quite sometime after they wed. They would likely have kids. It is possible that Rhaegar was not the child to be sacrificed, but Jenny and Duncan's. I think it was Rhaegar, but i do wonder about Jenny and Duncan having children. However, in 239 AC, while traveling in the riverlands, Duncan encountered and fell in love with and married a "strange, lovely, and mysterious" peasant woman known as Jenny of Oldstones.[5] In 259 AC, Prince Duncan died in the Tragedy at Summerhall along with his father, King Aegon V Targaryen, his namesake Ser Duncan the Tall, and several other members of the royal court.[10][3][11] 239-259. 20 years they were married with no children?
  3. Generally, don't cult leaders need a cult? Melisandre has Stannis, his wife, and the Island of Dragon Stone, along with a good base in Essos. Who does Rhaegar have? Jon Con doesn't seem aware of any cults, and I can't think of anyone else who would be in this cult except maybe Ashara and her brother. There is nothing to go on for this though so a bit of a stretch for me to picture Rhaegar sitting around like the Old Sparrow, giving long talks about Azor Ahai and the Prince that was Promised. How is he recruiting members? By force? By freewill? Melisandre has converted Stannis. Could this not be the narrative repeat you talk of with out it being Rhaegar and Lyanna?
  4. I dont think Mance was glamoured as Rhaegar. I think Mance was the Mystery Knight with the White Tree on his shield. Mance likely being born at WhiteTree. The Tree on his shield represents where he was born. A Game of Thrones - Daenerys I And perhaps the dragon did remember, but Dany could not. She had never seen this land her brother said was theirs, this realm beyond the narrow sea. These places he talked of, Casterly Rock and the Eyrie, Highgarden and the Vale of Arryn, Dorne and the Isle of Faces, they were just words to her. Viserys had been a boy of eight when they fled King's Landing to escape the advancing armies of the Usurper, but Daenerys had been only a quickening in their mother's womb. Yet sometimes Dany would picture the way it had been, so often had her brother told her the stories. The midnight flight to Dragonstone, moonlight shimmering on the ship's black sails. Her brother Rhaegar battling the Usurper in the bloody waters of the Trident and dying for the woman he loved. A story Daenerys has heard (Along with us) numerous times from people who wouldn't know. Viserys is going off word of mouth. A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV . . . help her . . . the whispers mocked. . . . show her . . . Then phantoms shivered through the murk, images in indigo. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman's name. . . . mother of dragons, daughter of death . . . Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. . . . mother of dragons, slayer of lies . . . Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. . . . mother of dragons, bride of fire . . . Could just have easily been Elia's name. Its a vision given by people trying to kill Dany. A Dance with Dragons - The Kingbreaker "She will weep and tear her hair and curse the Yunkai'i. Not us. No blood on our hands. You can comfort her. Tell her some tale of the old days, she likes those. Poor Daario, her brave captain … she will never forget him, no … but better for all of us if he is dead, yes? Better for Daenerys too." Better for Daenerys, and for Westeros. Daenerys Targaryen loved her captain, but that was the girl in her, not the queen. Prince Rhaegar loved his Lady Lyanna, and thousands died for it. Daemon Blackfyre loved the first Daenerys, and rose in rebellion when denied her. Bittersteel and Bloodraven both loved Shiera Seastar, and the Seven Kingdoms bled. The Prince of Dragonflies loved Jenny of Oldstones so much he cast aside a crown, and Westeros paid the bride price in corpses. All three of the sons of the fifth Aegon had wed for love, in defiance of their father's wishes. And because that unlikely monarch had himself followed his heart when he chose his queen, he allowed his sons to have their way, making bitter enemies where he might have had fast friends. Treason and turmoil followed, as night follows day, ending at Summerhall in sorcery, fire, and grief. Barristan even repeats old stories that make no sense. Given Daemon rebelled long after not getting Daenerys, its not for sure Daemon's motives. A Dance with Dragons - The Kingbreaker "Best not." Ser Barristan stepped out alone onto the terrace gardens. I am not made for this, he reflected as he looked out over the sprawling city. The pyramids were waking, one by one, lanterns and torches flickering to life as shadows gathered in the streets below. Plots, ploys, whispers, lies, secrets within secrets, and somehow I have become part of them. Perhaps by now he should have grown used to such things. The Red Keep had its secrets too. Even Rhaegar. The Prince of Dragonstone had never trusted him as he had trusted Arthur Dayne. Harrenhal was proof of that. The year of the false spring. Barristan was not friends, or close to Rhaegar. If anything, Barristan knows nothing about Rhaegar that the common person in court didn't know already. R+L=J is not a mystery. It is what we are more or less told repeatedly by in world people relying on rumors. As none were close to Rhaegar A Dance with Dragons - The Griffin Reborn "My lord does have one prize to offer," Haldon Halfmaester pointed out. "Prince Aegon's hand. A marriage alliance, to bring some great House to our banners." A bride for our bright prince. Jon Connington remembered Prince Rhaegar's wedding all too well. Elia was never worthy of him. She was frail and sickly from the first, and childbirth only left her weaker. After the birth of Princess Rhaenys, her mother had been bedridden for half a year, and Prince Aegon's birth had almost been the death of her. She would bear no more children, the maesters told Prince Rhaegar afterward. One of the few who knew and passionately loved Rhaegar. Mentions only Elia, and nothing at all of Lyanna. Jon would be just as catty about the woman who got Rhaegar killed, as he would the one who first stole Rhaegar from Jon. Both women are stealing Jon's love. Yet Jon doesn't see Lyanna as a threat? Despite that being the reason for the fall of his sweet lord
  5. A Storm of Swords - Jon II A crust of frozen blood crunched beneath the heel of his boot. The wildlings were stripping the dead horses of every scrap of steel and leather, even prying the horseshoes off their hooves. A few were going through packs they'd turned up, looking for weapons and food. Jon passed one of Chett's dogs, or what remained of him, lying in a sludgy pool of half-frozen blood. A few tents were still standing on the far side of the camp, and it was there they found Mance Rayder. Beneath his slashed cloak of black wool and red silk A Storm of Swords - Jon II Half the wildling host had lived all their lives without so much as a glimpse of the Wall, Jon judged, and most of those spoke no word of the Common Tongue. It did not matter. Mance Rayder spoke the Old Tongue, even sang in it, fingering his lute and filling the night with strange wild music. Mance had spent years assembling this vast plodding host, talking to this clan mother and that magnar, winning one village with sweet words and another with a song and a third with the edge of his sword, making peace between Harma Dogshead and the Lord o' Bones, between the Hornfoots and the Nightrunners, between the walrus men of the Frozen Shore and the cannibal clans of the great ice rivers, hammering a hundred different daggers into one great spear, aimed at the heart of the Seven Kingdoms. He had no crown nor scepter, no robes of silk and velvet, but it was plain to Jon that Mance Rayder was a king in more than name. A Storm of Swords - Jon X Open the gate and let them pass. Easy to say, but what must follow? Giants camping in the ruins of Winterfell? Cannibals in the wolfswood, chariots sweeping across the barrowlands, free folk stealing the daughters of shipwrights and silversmiths from White Harbor and fishwives off the Stony Shore? "Are you a true king?" Jon asked suddenly. "I've never had a crown on my head or sat my arse on a bloody throne, if that's what you're asking," Mance replied. "My birth is as low as a man's can get, no septon's ever smeared my head with oils, I don't own any castles, and my queen wears furs and amber, not silk and sapphires. A Storm of Swords - Jon I "A cloak?" "The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadow-cat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said. The Shadow Tower is one of three castles along the Wall that are still inhabited by the Night's Watch. It is located next to mountains at the western end of the Wall.[1] So, at the Western most end of Westeros, Mance ends up at a village, where a woman has red silk. Something mentioned to be only of kings and such. From a wrecked Gog from Asshai, which is on the East end of the World. From the wreck, apparently only a small piece of red silk is all she found of importance too. So either Assshai is just West of Westeros, which, I think they would know by now. A ship from England doesn't just wash up ashore in the America's. Or likewise from China to America. They would need to be much closer, close enough, that they likely would have discovered each other by now. Or, Mance is lying and twisted the facts. 1. He never said they went ranging North of the Wall. Nor that the Village was North of the Wall. Mance has come south of the wall repeatedly in the books. Once coming to Winterfell even. 2. That the Elk and Shadow cat were actually a Lannister and a Stormlander. The Stag killing the Wolf is symbolism for Starks and Barratheons. Cats often for Lannisters. Its possible that Mance and Lyanna were found, and that Mance fought a Lannister and a Stormlander. Got injured, and that's why Lyanna and him were hiding for so long. Which led to her getting pregnant. Explaining why Mance has tasted Summerwines and tasted Dornishman's wives. As neither is typically found north of the Neck. Explaining who the Blackbrother was at Harrenhal.
  6. Lemon Trees, a plot steeped in Dorne, including secret marriage agreements between Dorne and Viserys through the Sea Lord of Braavos. Seeing herself as Rhaegar. Seeing stars wheeling about and being of Starfall, and the Dayne Heiress. Daenerys is the Sword of the Morning/Star of the Morning. The Lightbearer.
  7. A Dance with Dragons - The Dragontamer "She might be. Men may be fond of maidens, but women like a man who knows what he's about in the bedchamber. It's another sort of swordplay. Takes training to be good at it." The gibe stung. Quentyn had never felt so much a boy as when he'd stood before Daenerys Targaryen, pleading for her hand. The thought of bedding her terrified him almost as much as her dragons had. What if he could not please her? "Daenerys has a paramour," he said defensively. "My father did not send me here to amuse the queen in the bedchamber. You know why we have come." "You cannot marry her. She has a husband." Not only does Oberyn have a paramour, but its suggested to Quentyn in regards to Daenerys. I would hardly call Oberyn paramour just his bed amusement. Its his love Not only is having a paramour ok for Nobels in Dorne, but it appears to be ok for a Noble to be a paramour
  8. Sure, Doran's son offers to be Dany's paramour. So it must not be too much of a dishonor to the Dornish. While I think Rhaegar is not generally a cheater and not interested in Lyanna or Ashara for love, I do think he may have been obsessed with prophecy and sought out a 3rd child that his wife could no longer have. The idea of Elia and Rhaegar having a surrogate mother with a paramour in his friends sister, from Dorne. Seems more logical than him starting a war to steal Lyanna, who he just met possibly at Harrenhal (Nothing says they actually spoke together though) cause he suddenly fell in love with her. Why would Lyanna think Rhaegar would keep to only her bed despite being married to Elia and having kids with her? Was she picturing she would be put up a Kings landing? Maybe use the same secret passage Tywin was using? Praying the mad king doesn't burn her alive? Or was she going to be swept away to the ever romantic Dragonstone to be a prisoner upon the Island? Or perhaps she would just stay hiding in Dorne? While all of the 7 kingdoms talks about what a whore she is, especially for being a lady, unwed. Nothing to inherit, or gain. Let alone what Lyanna's dear father may think of her. Present day women have different options than women of those type days. I just don't see it. She might as well just hide at the brothel. Idk, I just have a hard time seeing it. Rhaegar needed to win Harrenhal too, so he couldn't have Mance beating him. Mance wants to give a blue rose crown to Lyanna though. Something i doubt Rhaegar would understand the symbolism of. Rhaegar has never even been to the North. How would he know about the Blue Roses or be able to get one? There are just too many clues left out by assuming Rhaegar is Jon's father. Those clues make more sense with Mance as Jon's father, while Rhaegar is Daenerys. Daenerys even has a vision where she see's Rhaegar, but when he lifts his helmet, its Dany. A Game of Thrones - Daenerys IX "… the dragon …" And saw her brother Rhaegar, mounted on a stallion as black as his armor. Fire glimmered red through the narrow eye slit of his helm. "The last dragon," Ser Jorah's voice whispered faintly. "The last, the last." Dany lifted his polished black visor. The face within was her own. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars. A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV "Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked. "He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire." He looked up when he said it and his eyes met Dany's, and it seemed as if he saw her standing there beyond the door. "There must be one more," he said, though whether he was speaking to her or the woman in the bed she could not say. "The dragon has three heads." He went to the window seat, picked up a harp, and ran his fingers lightly over its silvery strings. Sweet sadness filled the room as man and wife and babe faded like the morning mist, only the music lingering behind to speed her on her way. Rhaegar, is speaking to Ashara Dayne. Dany's mother, who Dany is seeing the vision through the eyes of.
  9. Seems a lil presumptive but ok. That's just pretty detailed for the lack of information we are given. We are simply told she doesn't think Robert is faithful or will be, and also that she thinks love is a "Sweet idea" A Game of Thrones - Eddard IX Ned let him prattle on. After a time, he quieted and they rode in silence. The streets of King's Landing were dark and deserted. The rain had driven everyone under their roofs. It beat down on Ned's head, warm as blood and relentless as old guilts. Fat drops of water ran down his face. "Robert will never keep to one bed," Lyanna had told him at Winterfell, on the night long ago when their father had promised her hand to the young Lord of Storm's End. "I hear he has gotten a child on some girl in the Vale." Ned had held the babe in his arms; he could scarcely deny her, nor would he lie to his sister, but he had assured her that what Robert did before their betrothal was of no matter, that he was a good man and true who would love her with all his heart. Lyanna had only smiled. "Love is sweet, dearest Ned, but it cannot change a man's nature." Doesn't sound much like she's into any married man pretending to "love" her. A cheater is a cheater. Rhaegar cheating would mean its in his nature, and "love" won't change a man's nature. Besides, the books only hints that Rhaegar was interested because he wanted a 3rd child. No where is it implied that Rhaegar didn't love Elia, who he upset his father and Tywin to marry. So why would Lyanna want a man only interested in having a 3rd child to fulfill prophecy? Where is it implied that Lyanna was concerned about prophecy? The amount of bending things to make this work is weird.
  10. Still weird how people can justify going for one cheater over another. Idk how many people have actually done this in real life and feel the need to justify cheating, but Im of the opinion that cheating is cheating. That's also a lot of assumption or presumed rumors that Lyanna is going on in regards to Rhaegar. Who is telling Lyanna sweet words about Rhaegar anyways? There is no textual evidence for anything. Its not only hard for me to picture her dropping one cheater for another, but even harder to imagine her becoming a mistress home wrecker. Robert sleeping with whores is one thing, Lyanna becoming one I think is a slightly different issue, but thats just my opinion. Rhaegar is also my problem with the R+L theory. He is never shown to be a cheater, but is going to bring war upon his house by stealing Lyanna. I def think Jon is Lyanna's child though, and Daenerys is definitely a Taragaryen. I think the show went with one of the version Martin has put out there, but I do not think its the right one. Martin has stated that he's going for multiple meanings on many things. I think he uses this strategy for his myths, his timeline, and most things as a way of creating layers, but i think there is still only one thats right. The only thing I don't understand is what happened between Mance and Rhaegar. IF Mance is the Mystery Knight, and Mance is the one who Kidnapped Lyanna, and Rhaegar is just blamed for it. There has to be something in it for both. I assume the red slash Mance keeps with him is some token promise from Rhaegar, I just don't know for what. There is no evidence that Mance was aware of the Others returning just then. It all still makes more sense than two pretty straight laced people cheating on their partners out of no where with no evidence that Rhaegar ever even met or spoke to Lyanna. Kidnapping brides is a wildling thing to do though, blue roses come from the North and not something Rhaegar is likely to get ahold of on his own. So maybe Rhaegar's deal with Mance involved the giving of the Rose crown? I can only assume that Rhaegar got the crown of roses from Mance. Daenerys has a vision of a blue rose growing out of the Wall. Jon and Mance were both black brothers and served at the Wall. One way or another, I think we're all missing something. I hope we all get a surprise still
  11. I find it interesting how any one could justify or rationalize Lyanna Stark, falling for Rhaegar. She literally doesn't want Robert cause he is likely to cheat on her, to cheat with an already married man, who is cheating. It literally makes no sense at all. She is a northerner, who is of the north, and wants to be free. If any man is stealing her heart, its a wildling. We are told who Jon's father is the same way we are told many other clues in the book, through the legends repeating. His father is Mance Rayder, not Rhaegar. Mance is the Black Brother at Harrenhal, who has a booming voice that later commands the wildlings. He likely was born at WhiteTree and so would paint a White tree on his shield. Mance speaks of drinking Summerwine and tasting Dornishman's wives. While having to travel south of the Neck to be able to do so. He also mentions this same thing, when first meeting Jon. Then ask Jon how he likes the song, then repeats the part about tasting the Dornishman's wife. Robert, born near the Dornish Marches. Who to anyone in the north would just regard him as close enough to a Dornishman, as all men south of the Wall all southerners anyways. Rhaegar's secret child at the Tower of Joy, is the Dayne Heiress, by his friends sister. Ashara Dayne, Rhaegar's paramour, from Dorne. Where such a thing is not a dishonor. Daenerys, the Dayne Heiress, and Sword/Star of the Morning who is the Blood of the Dragon. Jon is a crow, and a northerner tied to his cousin Bran the 3 eyed Crow. He is the Stark born to a King Beyond the Wall same as legend
  12. Mance says he has drank summer wine and tasted the Dornish Man’s wife. When and where did Mance drink Summer Wine and Taste Dornishman's wives???? A Game of Thrones - Jon I Suddenly he realized that the table had fallen silent, and they were all looking at him. He felt the tears begin to well behind his eyes. He pushed himself to his feet. "I must be excused," he said with the last of his dignity. He whirled and bolted before they could see him cry. He must have drunk more wine than he had realized. His feet got tangled under him as he tried to leave, and he lurched sideways into a serving girl and sent a flagon of spiced wine crashing to the floor. Laughter boomed all around him, and Jon felt hot tears on his cheeks. Someone tried to steady him. He wrenched free of their grip and ran, half-blind, for the door. Ghost followed close at his heels, out into the night. To the Question of where has Mance had Summer Wine? I ask again. As the only wine mentioned in AGOT around the time Mance was at Winterfell, is spiced wine. A Game of Thrones - Prologue The young knight turned back to his grizzled man-at-arms. Frost-fallen leaves whispered past them, and Royce's destrier moved restlessly. "What do you think might have killed these men, Gared?" Ser Waymar asked casually. He adjusted the drape of his long sable cloak. "It was the cold," Gared said with iron certainty. "I saw men freeze last winter, and the one before, when I was half a boy. Everyone talks about snows forty foot deep, and how the ice wind comes howling out of the north, but the real enemy is the cold. It steals up on you quieter than Will, and at first you shiver and your teeth chatter and you stamp your feet and dream of mulled wine and nice hot fires. Gareth mentions Mulled wine. A Game of Thrones - Daenerys II There was no one to talk to. Khal Drogo shouted commands and jests down to his bloodriders, and laughed at their replies, but he scarcely glanced at Dany beside him. They had no common language. Dothraki was incomprehensible to her, and the khal knew only a few words of the bastard Valyrian of the Free Cities, and none at all of the Common Tongue of the Seven Kingdoms. She would even have welcomed the conversation of Illyrio and her brother, but they were too far below to hear her. So she sat in her wedding silks, nursing a cup of honeyed wine, afraid to eat, talking silently to herself. I am blood of the dragon, she told herself. I am Daenerys Stormborn, Princess of Dragonstone, of the blood and seed of Aegon the Conqueror. Daenerys drinks Honey Wine. A Game of Thrones - Tyrion II Tyrion was never much use in making a camp or breaking one. Too small, too hobbled, too in-the-way. So while Stark and Yoren and the other men erected rude shelters, tended the horses, and built a fire, it became his custom to take his fur and a wineskin and go off by himself to read. On the eighteenth night of their journey, the wine was a rare sweet amber from the Summer Isles that he had brought all the way north from Casterly Rock, and the book a rumination on the history and properties of dragons. With Lord Eddard Stark's permission, Tyrion had borrowed a few rare volumes from the Winterfell library and packed them for the ride north. So unless he was nipping Tyrion's stash, Summerwine is not something Mance would find in the North. He would need to come south of the Neck to taste summer wine. The only unknown Knightwatchmen south of the Wall with a chance to taste summer wine, was the one at the Tourney of Harrenhal. The unnamed crow who shows up around the time of the mystery night. Mance, born likely in Whitetree. Where a giant Weirwood is, is likely the Mystery Knight, who at the behest of Lyanna stood up for Howland Reed. The Mystery Knight and his booming Voice, and Mance's Voice being able to speak over all the wildlings and command their attention
  13. This is a continuation of an old thread of mine, with new insights given the Brienne and Jamie narrative connection to Dunk via Brienne's lineage and both Jamie and Brienne's link to Dunk via being King's Guards. Jamie and Brienne also being King Slayers.
  14. History doesn't repeat, but it does rhyme. So what happened at Summerhall? Has Martin already told us? By the first 3 books, Martin has said most everything to figure out the novels were there. We have Dany hatching Dragons with a "Life for a Life". With her first egg moving, shortly after the death of her brother. Given to the flames with molten gold. Then later, with Drogo, and her son being given to the pyre. Each person being honored by a dragon being named for them. What was Aegon missing? Why didn't putting it in his cradle work? Did the bloodline go extinct? Did it require the blood of House Dayne to hatch a dragon? Daenerys, Dayne Heiress? We can't say for sure why they stopped being able to hatch dragons, but we can say that birthing them and hatching once already birthed and bound to your blood, are different. "Blood of my blood" As Daenerys shows us how to hatch and bind dragons. Aegon at Summerhall seems to have been missing a blood sacrifice. Or was he? Rhaegar had just been born and he mourns for Summerhall even though none of his immediate family died their. Rhaegar, who Aegon and Aemon believed to be the Prophesied Prince who would bring back dragons. What if he is sad because his life, meant no return of dragons. He was meant to die their for his family, and he knows it. Till something eventually makes him think they were wrong, and that his son was the one. What if, Dunk saved Rhaegar from Aegon. Hailed a hero and a Knight. Neither of which are true. Dunk was not a Knight, and Dunk had killed his King. Lets consider a fellow King Slayer A Storm of Swords - Jaime V "Ned Stark was racing south with Robert's van, but my father's forces reached the city first. Pycelle convinced the king that his Warden of the West had come to defend him, so he opened the gates. The one time he should have heeded Varys, and he ignored him. My father had held back from the war, brooding on all the wrongs Aerys had done him and determined that House Lannister should be on the winning side. The Trident decided him. "It fell to me to hold the Red Keep, but I knew we were lost. I sent to Aerys asking his leave to make terms. My man came back with a royal command. 'Bring me your father's head, if you are no traitor.' Aerys would have no yielding. Lord Rossart was with him, my messenger said. I knew what that meant. "When I came on Rossart, he was dressed as a common man-at-arms, hurrying to a postern gate. I slew him first. Then I slew Aerys, before he could find someone else to carry his message to the pyromancers. Days later, I hunted down the others and slew them as well. Belis offered me gold, and Garigus wept for mercy. Well, a sword's more merciful than fire, but I don't think Garigus much appreciated the kindness I showed him." Jamie kills his king to save the people, but is condemned. When do we find this out about Jamie? When talking to Brienne. The descendant of Dunk the Lunk, only man brave enough to talk back to Aegon or smack him. A Clash of Kings - Catelyn IV "Cold," said Renly in a small puzzled voice, a heartbeat before the steel of his gorget parted like cheesecloth beneath the shadow of a blade that was not there. He had time to make a small thick gasp before the blood came gushing out of his throat. "Your Gr—no!" cried Brienne the Blue when she saw that evil flow, sounding as scared as any little girl. The king stumbled into her arms, a sheet of blood creeping down the front of his armor, a dark red tide that drowned his green and gold. More candles guttered out. Renly tried to speak, but he was choking on his own blood. His legs collapsed, and only Brienne's strength held him up. She threw back her head and screamed, wordless in her anguish. The shadow. Something dark and evil had happened here, she knew, something that she could not begin to understand. Renly never cast that shadow. Death came in that door and blew the life out of him as swift as the wind snuffed out his candles. Only a few instants passed before Robar Royce and Emmon Cuy came bursting in, though it felt like half the night. A pair of men-at-arms crowded in behind with torches. When they saw Renly in Brienne's arms, and her drenched with the king's blood, Ser Robar gave a cry of horror. "Wicked woman!" screamed Ser Emmon, he of the sunflowered steel. "Away from him, you vile creature!" Brienne, who is blamed for killing her King. Who can sympathize with Jamie, both being besmirched of their honor. Could Dunk be the opposite to them? And our view into the answers of Summerhall? Would Dunk allow Aegon to sacrifice Rhaegar? Would Brienne or Jamie allow it to happen? Maesters tend to use poison, and don't like Wild fire. So I find it hard to believe it was the Maesters. Could the Wild fire simply have gotten out of hand and Dunk managed to save everybody buttttt the one person he is actually tasked with saving? Sure. Would his peers hail him as a hero for failing his king though? Not likely, given its literally his only job. Or did Aegon figure out how to hatch dragons, and Dunk corrected Egg once last time?
  15. Its also worth noting that not only did the Phoenicians sail as far as England, but the Celtic Gauls likewise traveled as far. Establishing a colony in modern day Turkey, to the East of Troy. In Galatia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galatians_(people) The Galatians (Ancient Greek: Γαλάται, romanized: Galátai; Latin: Galatae, Galati, Gallograeci; Greek: Γαλάτες, romanized: Galátes, lit. 'Gauls') were a Celtic people dwelling in Galatia, a region of central Anatolia surrounding present-day Ankara, during the Hellenistic period.[1] There was a lot of trade in ideas, goods, and beliefs between the Middle East and Europe in the Ancient days.
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