Mafia 60.5 Wild Cards by GRRM.

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Queen of Spades' post='1631049' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.47']So all your votes were there with intent to lynch, then?[/quote]

Yes. Which isn't the same as saying that if were King or a ninja I would kill you now, but if we had 30 minutes left in the day I would be trying to convince others to lynch you now, yeh.

[House Corbray]

[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1630924' date='Dec 26 2008, 15.39']Hmm, good enough for me. [b]Eight[/b]




Is this serious, Jack?[/quote]


Perhaps a joke vote, perhaps not. A little vague. But if all votes were intent to lynch...
[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1630939' date='Dec 26 2008, 16.03']Middle of the road much, [b]King[/b]?[/quote]

Now this came right after another vote for King, so Im tempted to call it symping but for the moment lets consider it bad timing...

[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1631003' date='Dec 26 2008, 17.39']Hang on.

You don't think he's an idiot, and therefore not FM. How does this work?

And you reckon he isn't FM, but he's on your list now?

Please explain, [b]Queen[/b][/quote]
My vote, which I can understand.

However, all these votes were within an hour and a half of each other, and Im not including his earlier votes. In my books, this makes it seem almost like Six doesnt care who he lynches. I also took into account your joke vote on Jack, which, considering how you see the above behaviour as "scummy" and warrenting a vote and not seeing a vote for night being scummy, well, it makes it seems almost like early distancing. I push my defence a little, and you get awfully aggressive. Defending a less experienced partner, maybe?

[b]Vote the Six of Hearts[/b]

Call it OMGUS, if you want. But this vote stays.

edited for spelling and also to change an hour to hour and a half.

[House Frey]

We've heard very little from 2, 3, 4, 5, & 9.

My blunder has dominated the focus for a while. What else do we have to chew on?

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Queen of Spades' post='1631041' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.33']Also, unless my old eyesight is getting worse, you've been vote jumping a lot, so I dont think youve much right to comment on my accusations/arguments against anyone, as you seem to be looking for people to attack. :P[/quote]

When I see something that I think is suspicious, yeh I point it out and vote for it. Looking for people to attack? Yeh, kind of, it's beginning of day one, and we need to transfer from joking stage to serious stage somehow.

[quote name='Queen of Spades' post='1631056' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.00']Perhaps a joke vote, perhaps not. A little vague. But if all votes were intent to lynch...[/quote]
[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1631046' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.41'][u] [i]Apart from joke votes,[/i][/u] all votes are there with intent to lynch, or should be.[/quote]

It was a joke vote. And you are artificially trying to bolster your case.

[quote]However, all these votes were within an hour and a half of each other, and Im not including his earlier votes. In my books, this makes it seem almost like Six doesnt care who he lynches. I also took into account your joke vote on Jack, which, considering how you see the above behaviour as "scummy" and warrenting a vote and not seeing a vote for night being scummy, well, it makes it seems almost like early distancing. I push my defence a little, and you get awfully aggressive. Defending a less experienced partner, maybe?

[b]Vote the Six of Hearts[/b]

Call it OMGUS, if you want. But this vote stays.[/quote]

I have made two serious votes - one on King, because I found his post middle of the road and nothingy, and one on you, because of your contradictions when talking about Jack. I fail to see how this is at all suspicious, but sure if you want to paint me and Jack as FM partners then go for it. I also fail to see how I was aggressive. Yeh I'm unhappy about your logic and conclusions, but I sincerely hope you don't think I'm being aggressive or rude about it. I certainly don't mean to be. And on the other hand, you using the :P smiley makes me uneasy, and your assertion that

[quote name='Queen']so I dont think youve much right to comment on my accusations/arguments against anyone, as you seem to be looking for people to attack[/quote] is a bit silly. Of course I have a right to comment on your accusations and arguments, just as you have a right to assert that I like to look for people to attack.

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631062' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.13']We've heard very little from 2, 3, 4, 5, & 9.

My blunder has dominated the focus for a while. What else do we have to chew on?[/quote]

You could...look for yourself?

What's your thoughts on Queen's reaction to your blunder?

[House Corbray]

My apolgies for the :P smilie. Its a habit. And no, you weren't rude, but I do think you became a little too passionate in your attack on my logic. And Jack's latest comment seems like an attempt to be drawing the attention from you, which could suggest he's a partner.

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Queen of Spades' post='1631072' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.27']And Jack's latest comment seems like an attempt to be drawing the attention from you, which could suggest he's a partner.[/quote]

It's a nice thought. In fact, suggesting that Jack and I are partners, I think is probably the thing that you've said which has made the most sense. Unfortunately it's not true though.

And no apology needed for the :P. I have similar issues with the :) smiley, and I have to consciously stop myself using it when it's not appropriate.

[House Clegane]

Well, Jack, your blunder has generated discussion... this is good.

However the resulting discussion has resulted in Q coming to the conclusion that 6 is guilty (and you are his partner.) Actually, I am not sure he is serious with this case, but it is better than his case on you.

Still, it's not great. On top of Q thinking you are a likely FM from your blunder, he now looks overdefensive and trying too hard with his case on 6. Two votes on Queen and he starts panicking? Odd.

[House Corbray]

Not panicking, just trying to generate responses.
To be brutally honest with you, Jack's latest comment has made me reconsider what I said about Six a little, because as I used the argument of defence against Six, it seems foolhardy to then defend him if you really ARE his partner...

[House Clegane]

No mod CF... why not defend?

[House Frey]

[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1631067' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.21']You could...look for yourself?

What's your thoughts on Queen's reaction to your blunder?[/quote]

Yes, I could look for myself, but I've already inadvertently positioned myself as a grey character, so my posts will be viewed more suspiciously. I don't want to become a distracting side circus.

The problem with your dialogue with Queen is that both POV are plausible enough for innocent people - though, slightly less so for Queen. I thought you did a good job of pushing for an apparent inconsistency (HS debating team?), but it's not a smoking gun. I don't think there can be a smoking gun at this stage.

So I wanted to look beyond this exchange. That's why I checked back to see who has been posting in what direction. Yes, King was pretty non-committal, as pointed out. But we've heard almost nothing from five people. There's not much to go on yet. Perhaps the best strategy is to keep your head down for the first few days (for innocents and FM).

[House Corbray]

[quote name='Seven of Diamonds' post='1631081' date='Dec 26 2008, 19.39']No mod CF... why not defend?[/quote]
Because if anyone decides to finder our friend Six and he comes up scum, and they tell us so, that would put Jack in a very bad place indeed. But then maybe Im just paranoid.

Also, I didnt realise there were no mod CFs until now... :huh:

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631084' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.43']So I wanted to look beyond this exchange. That's why I checked back to see who has been posting in what direction. Yes, King was pretty non-committal, as pointed out. But we've heard almost nothing from five people. There's not much to go on yet. Perhaps the best strategy is to keep your head down for the first few days (for innocents and FM).[/quote]

If everyone kept their head down for the first few days, the the innocents would have no information to use to find the killers - obviously benefiting the killers. So I don't particular like the sound of you suggesting that it would be a good strategy for people to follow. The rest of your post seemed insightful and reasonable though, so I don't want to lynch you and my vote stays on Queen.

[House Clegane]

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631084' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.43']Yes, I could look for myself, but I've already inadvertently positioned myself as a grey character, so my posts will be viewed more suspiciously. I don't want to become a distracting side circus.[/quote]
But posts like this make you look middle of the roading, thus pushing you toward the dark side rather than keeping you neutral.

[quote]The problem with your dialogue with Queen is that both POV are plausible enough for innocent people - though, slightly less so for Queen. I thought you did a good job of pushing for an apparent inconsistency (HS debating team?), but it's not a smoking gun. I don't think there can be a smoking gun at this stage.

So I wanted to look beyond this exchange. That's why I checked back to see who has been posting in what direction. Yes, King was pretty non-committal, as pointed out. But we've heard almost nothing from five people. There's not much to go on yet. Perhaps the best strategy is to keep your head down for the first few days (for innocents and FM).[/quote]
There will not be a smoking gun... short of a FM claiming, which is very unlikely. And, quite frankly, there is nothing to look at beyond this exchange, so it will be looked at.

[House Frey]

[quote name='Six of Hearts' post='1631090' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.48']If everyone kept their head down for the first few days, the the innocents would have no information to use to find the killers - obviously benefiting the killers. So I don't particular like the sound of you suggesting that it would be a good strategy for people to follow. The rest of your post seemed insightful and reasonable though, so I don't want to lynch you and my vote stays on Queen.[/quote]

I was just trying to infer the reason for their relative silence. I don't think all five of them can be FM.

[House Upcliff]

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631098' date='Dec 26 2008, 22.57']I was just trying to infer the reason for their relative silence. I don't think all five of them can be FM.[/quote]

I think the reason for their relative silence is that it's Christmas.

Anyway I'm off to bed now.

[House Corbray]

Im sorry Jack, I dont like your last post at all.

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631084' date='Dec 26 2008, 19.43']Yes, I could look for myself, but I've already inadvertently positioned myself as a grey character, so my posts will be viewed more suspiciously. I don't want to become a distracting side circus.[/quote]

This, to me, reads like "Dont mind me, and I don't have to make arguments because theyll be looked upon as scummy".

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631084' date='Dec 26 2008, 19.43']The problem with your dialogue with Queen is that both POV are plausible enough for innocent people - though, slightly less so for Queen. I thought you did a good job of pushing for an apparent inconsistency (HS debating team?), but it's not a smoking gun. I don't think there can be a smoking gun at this stage.[/quote]

Sitting on the fence and symping Six, is all I can say.

[quote name='Jack of Diamonds' post='1631084' date='Dec 26 2008, 19.43']So I wanted to look beyond this exchange. That's why I checked back to see who has been posting in what direction. Yes, King was pretty non-committal, as pointed out. But we've heard almost nothing from five people. There's not much to go on yet. Perhaps the best strategy is to keep your head down for the first few days (for innocents and FM).[/quote]
I can agree with the first five sentences, but the last supports a playstyle that I cannot abide from innos, I don't like staying quiet, even if it makes you look more suspicious, posting opinions is what drives the game.

[House Frey]

[quote name='Seven of Diamonds' post='1631094' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.51']But posts like this make you look middle of the roading, thus pushing you toward the dark side rather than keeping you neutral.


There will not be a smoking gun... short of a FM claiming, which is very unlikely. And, quite frankly, there is nothing to look at beyond this exchange, so it will be looked at.[/quote]

You're right. I have been middle-of-the-roading. I'm reluctant to cast a vote for someone without some basis. I'm just listening for now.

I was tempted to throw out a vote behind the current top choice, just to see what the momentum does for the discussion. But that might play into their hands. It would be easy for the FMs to coordinate a couple of votes behind one person to get an early appearance of momentum.

[House Frey]

[quote name='Queen of Spades' post='1631102' date='Dec 26 2008, 21.59']I can agree with the first five sentences, but the last supports a playstyle that I cannot abide from innos, I don't like staying quiet, even if it makes you look more suspicious, posting opinions is what drives the game.[/quote]

I haven't been quiet. I've erred to the other side of that spectrum. I was just inferring why they have been quiet. I don't know if that's a common strategy.

As to symping and middle-of-the-roading, I addressed the latter somewhat in my last post. 6 asked me to comment on the accusations he traded with you. If I take either side, I can be accused of symping. If I take neither side, I can be accused of middle-of-the-roading.

Once the question is posed, I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. So I answered honestly.

[House Corbray]

Alright, Jack, I see where your coming from. I appreciate your honest manner, and you seem intelligent. Im going to have a quick smoke, but as far as I can see, there is nothing else to discuss at this moment unless you want to bring up anything.