[BOOK SPOILERS] Game of Thrones Winner and Losers

[ferthepoet]

Don't know if this has been done already but this is a thread to discuss which characters have win in the sense of becoming better on the TV version than in the books and which can be considered losers. My two cents:

Biggest Winners:

1. Viserys: I think its clearly the biggest winner I don't think many people counted Viserys among their favorite characters from the books but the actor was just so great at playing him that it has become one of the most popular characters in the show.

2. Doreah: Admittedly I haven't read book one in about a decade, but I really did not remember her from the books so I guess she was not a very memorable character. In the series she's helped by being played by an stunningly gorgeous actress, got extra screen time and a little depth was added to her character by making her a believer in dragons. HBO may keep her permanently taking the place of Jiqui and even stealing Irri's bit as the handmaiden who gets it on with Dany.

3. Theon: Well if he was not winner HBO were gonna be losers since they tried harder with him than anybody else and his extra scenes did help add depth to his character

4. Lancel Lannister: His extra scenes being abused by Robert plus the delightfully pathetic way the actor plays him has help him be a much more sympathetic character than in the books.

5. Robin/Robert Arryn: Was given "What happens next?" one of the funniest lines in the show so far, and that is enough to be a winner over his book counterpart.

Biggest Loser:

1. Loras: The biggest Loser for me his scene with Renly simply came wrong, he came as schemer who used sex to manipulate Renly, the problem is he came better off as a valiant and chivalrous knight who just happens to be in love with the lord he served as squire than as a schemer who is third rate to most skilled players like Littlefinger and Varys. While most of the damage done to Renly character was undone with his speech to Robert, Loras lost his scene asking to be allowed to go after the Mountain showing he is not afraid of him. Additionally the actor playing him is not more attractive than the rest of the male cast making the character lost some mystique.

2. The Wolves: This has been over discussed but yes the lack of screentime have made the wolves lose a lot in comparison to their book counterparts.

3. Sansa: The decision to cut Jeyne Poole, while understandable really hurts Sansa Character, her fawning over Joffrey, Loras ect and her teenage angst ark worked better with another teenage character for her to converse with. Without that she had to act as a Bitch to her Septa and talk dreamily about Joffrey to Sansa and her dad which made her look even more airheaded than her book counterpart. The lost of her scenes with the Hound also hurted her.

Wanted to make a list of 5 but none of the other characters I really feel have been hurt with the transition to such a large degree to justify including them in the list, so what do you think?

[Ser Warpechowski]

I dont think Loras lost that bad. I was quite amused by the way he behaved in the tourney and liked that he was a manipulator when dealing with Renly. I think the character that lost more was Renly himself, the guy is not a shadow of the character Renly is suposed to be. Loras is almost nothing like the book character but at least he has some depth considering he is barely developed in the books.

For me another loser is LF: the actor doesnt portray him that well and the character is nowhere near as interesting. Big loss there. For me LF is the most inteligent character in the books, even more than Tywin, Tyron and Varys, yet the TV character isnt.

Also, Varys could be more melodramatic. His lines doesnt have as much punch. He should be more emotional.

[apt54]

Varys can be count in the loser category. Its not the actor (he does perfect job, actually), its the script! Varys from TV series did not convey the same "I ALWAYS know more than you and I am ALWAYS listening" aura than Varys from the books. Maybe it's just me, though.

[Steve the Pirate]

It's just you. Honestly, it's like you guys are watching a different show sometimes. Aidan Gillen is magnificent, Varys is coming off pretty faithful to the books, and Loras isn't some master manipulator. It was like a husband and wife having a chat about work, and one spouse encouraging the other to go for a promotion. And then they screw because they're already half naked and gorgeous. I don't think Loras was using BJs to make Renly attempt a coup.

Sansa acted like a bitch, because she IS a bitch in the first book. She grows up considerably over the next couple books (and seasons, I hope) due to all the horrible things she goes through, and that's what makes her interesting, I think. Losing the interaction with the Hound early on does hurt her a bit, but I think it was necessary for the tourney background, and Sophie did a good job of looking intrigued by the Hound's story. So I think they'll regain that ground, if that makes sense.

[reiver]

Biggest Loser for me is Littlefinger. He loses a lot of his subtlety and ambiguity as well as his best lines "life is not a song sweetling" or has them poorly altered: steel kiss metaphor changed to the garsher "cut her throat". We hear him tell us how great a manipulator he is between his pissing contest with Varys and his Bond villain routine with the whores but the little touches from the book that actually demonstrate how clued up he is and the clarity with which he reads situations is missing. Examples are the post ned resigning talk and the "Stannis and war" talk. Admittedly a lot of the book Littlefinger appreciation comes after the dust has settled and i can understand them not wanting to play the long game and rely on viewers intelligence and concentration but it's still a poorer character.

The Hound comes a close second but at least thus far his character is just being exluded rather than mangled.

Biggest Winner has to be Ros. She's so omnipresent that no more needs said.

Jaime is a winner in the sense that he's got a lot more dialogue and screen time and is much further forward in his arc towards being (at least partially) empathetical.

Ser Rodrik would definitely consider himself a winner as he got through his sea voyage with his whiskers intact.

[Brienne the Beauty]

Winner: Cersei. She seems more intelligent and nuanced, making her more interesting than the one-note evil character of the books. I look forward to seeing this more subtle Cersei in the events of Feast for Crows.

Loser: Jaime. Too sympathetic too soon. When he turns to the good, everyone will be expecting it. It will be no surprise.

[Ser Warpechowski]

Ser Rodrik would definitely consider himself a winner as he got through his sea voyage with his whiskers intact.

LOL, good one.

And agree, Ros wins so much that she was created just for the show.

[jellydonut]

Yeah, I really, really hope they decide to pull a True Blood/Lafayette on Doreah. As far as we can tell, it wouldn't affect the story too much to have her take the place of the other handmaidens, and live rather than die.

Can we list Jorah Mormont here? He's just so awesome on the show. Love him. Just made ASoS so much more sad.. I started watching the show, read the books after the 4th ep.. :crying:

I can't see them changing the sad course of his story, though. Too big a change. :frown5:

[Steel_Wind]

Can we list Jorah Mormont here? He's just so awesome on the show. Love him. Just made ASoS so much more sad.. I started watching the show, read the books after the 4th ep.. :crying:

I can't see them changing the sad course of his story, though. Too big a change. :frown5:

I disagree. I believe D&D have deliberately hedged their bets on Iain Glen as Jorah Mormont. They gave Jorah an actual pardon in Ep7 which is something he never got in the book. Had Jorah received a pardon, had he refused to act on it and chose to stay with Daenerys and saved her life in order to make her Queen? Dany might not have dismissed Jorah. There was no pardon in the book that Jorah refused. There was merely a promise of a pardon that he never got, so Dany thought he stayed with her for selfish reasons and could not be trusted. Jorah gets the boot as a result.

It's a long time to Season 3 or 4. Actors can pass away or not be possible to keep under contract. Selmy is not supposed to even appear in Season 2. Telling me Ian McElhinney (the actor who plays Selmy) - who is nowhere NEAR the top of the cast's salary list, is going to hang around unpaid for a year to ensure he'll be back for season 3? Maybe. Sure. (And maybe not, too.)

I think D&D gave Jorah a pardon to hedge their bets against the loss of Selmy from the tale. If they can't resign Ian McElhinney to play Selmy in Season 3, they'll continue with Mormont in Selmy's role as Dany's principal Queensguard and adviser. The role of Jorah may be essentially collapsed into Selmy's role in that event.

I am not saying that D&D have actually made this decision at this stage. I am saying that they have deliberately given themselves the necessary wiggle room in the script in case they have to make it later.

[Arrogant Bastard]

I disagree. I believe D&D have deliberately hedged their bets on Iain Glen as Jorah Mormont. They gave Jorah an actual pardon in Ep7 which is something he never got in the book. Had Jorah received a pardon, had he refused to act on it and chose to stay with Daenerys and saved her life in order to make her Queen? Dany might not have dismissed Jorah. There was no pardon in the book that Jorah refused. There was merely a promise of a pardon that he never got, so Dany thought he stayed with her for selfish reasons and could not be trusted. Jorah gets the boot as a result.

It's a long time to Season 3 or 4. Actors can pass away or not be possible to keep under contract. Selmy is not supposed to even appear in Season 2. Telling me Ian McElhinney (the actor who plays Selmy) - who is nowhere NEAR the top of the cast's salary list, is going to hang around unpaid for a year to ensure he'll be back for season 3? Maybe. Sure. (And maybe not, too.)

I think D&D gave Jorah a pardon to hedge their bets against the loss of Selmy from the tale. If they can't resign Ian McElhinney to play Selmy in Season 3, they'll continue with Mormont in Selmy's role as Dany's principal Queensguard and adviser. The role of Jorah may be essentially collapsed into Selmy's role in that event.

I am not saying that D&D have actually made this decision at this stage. I am saying that they have deliberately given themselves the necessary wiggle room in the script in case they have to make it later.

I believe Selmy will appear in season 2, as he shows up as Arstan in ACOK. Also, I don't think Jorah's role will change as you mentioned. I believe they gave him the pardon just to make it clear that he chose Dany over going home. I think in season 3 or whenever it happens Dany will still dismiss Jorah; he was still a spy and she won't necessarily believe his pardon story anyways. Although I doubt he will continue sending reports in the show as he did in the book, where he was sending them in Qarth I believe. He certainly could take over the role of Barristan if they can't get McElhinney, though I would think they might just recast him rather than write him out completely.

[Asarlai]

Winner: HBO

Loser: Intricacy of Plot

I kid (sort of). I enjoy the series very much. Makes me so glad that they didn't try to make each book into a movie (:ack:).

[Panjer]

I look forward to seeing this more subtle Cersei in the events of Feast for Crows.

I beg to differ, AFfC is where her descent into madness truly begins. There's a reason why everyone turns against her.

That said, I do like her characterization so far in the series, I just hope that cracks will begin to show along the line.

[Abaddon]

Loser: Jaime. Too sympathetic too soon. When he turns to the good, everyone will be expecting it. It will be no surprise.

That might hurt the plot, but it doesn't hurt the character. Jaime is 100000 times more interesting in the series than in A Game of Thrones, because he's a cardboard character in the first book.

[NW Deserter]

That might hurt the plot, but it doesn't hurt the character. Jaime is 100000 times more interesting in the series than in A Game of Thrones, because he's a cardboard character in the first book.

I agree to some extent, but one of my favorite Jaime scenes is actually at the end of Clash of Kings when Catelyn is interrogating him. Everyone here knows his famous line, "There are no men like me. There is only me."

Given the direction that they took his character in the show, a line like that just won't make as much sense. He's not nearly as arrogant as he is in the books, which isn't necessarily bad but it is a shift from the book.

[Rangers30]

I never took that line as being arrogant, more like bravado considering the circumstances he was in.

[Asarlai]

Loser: Jaime. Too sympathetic too soon. When he turns to the good, everyone will be expecting it. It will be no surprise.

The person I watch the TV show with that hasn't read the books thinks he's an asshole for killing Ned's men, not to mention screwing his sister and throwing a child out of a tower. I really don't see how his character is sympathetic.

[iheartseverus]

The person I watch the TV show with that hasn't read the books thinks he's an asshole for killing Ned's men, not to mention screwing his sister and throwing a child out of a tower. I really don't see how his character is sympathetic.

Agree, for the most part. But over at the TWoP site, viewers who haven't read the book have speculated that Jaime, perhaps more than any other character they've seen so far, is ripe for redemption. I credit this in large part to NCW's wonderfully-nuanced expressions--you can see.... something in his eyes at times, a brief glimpse of hurt feelings, a flash of an acknowledgment within himself that he's behaving like an asshole, maybe even the beginnings of a yearning to be someone better than he is, better than he's been. Personally, I love the characterization, since I found Jaime in the first book to be a lovely-to-look-at piece of cardboard.

[Millardkillmoore]

Biggest Winner: Robert. In the books he is this sad, pathetic man drowning his sorrows in booze and whores. In the show, he is much more sympathetic and nuanced. A good example is the conversation between him and Cersei where they discuss the possible Dothraki invasion and their marriage. While he may not look a lot like Robert Book Robert, but Addy's amazing performance really won me over.

Biggest Loser: Sansa. While I love almost all the actors and actresses in the series, Sansa's actress is really, really sub-par. This gets magnified whenever she has a scene with Arya and Ned, who are portrayed phenomenally well. Her performance just comes across all the more wooden when acting opposite them.

[Asarlai]

Biggest Loser: Sansa. While I love almost all the actors and actresses in the series, Sansa's actress is really, really sub-par. This gets magnified whenever she has a scene with Arya and Ned, who are portrayed phenomenally well. Her performance just comes across all the more wooden when acting opposite them.

Agreed; she doesn't even seem to possess facial expressions.

[ferthepoet]

Agreed; she doesn't even seem to possess facial expressions.

I don't think the Actress is bad actually, is just that the character was not very likeable to begin with and as I said was really hurted by the decision to cut Jeyne Poole