When all is said and done...

[samir3]

dany has no rights to the throne. whether people like it or not, the Targs were given the boot by robert and now the throne belongs to the baratheons, unless someone gives them the shoe as well.

i think tommen and myrcella's true parentage will be leaked, its only a matter of time, and therefore, they have no rights.

so now it falls onto Stannis, who will become king, legitimize stannis's known bastards.....Edric becomes king.

the four corners:

tommen takes west

harry and sansa the east

south given to the Others, see how much they like warm weather those bastards........seriously though, tyrells/martells, i don't know....

north of course, goes to the starks. bran, rickon as heir. jon is dead, making the ultimate sacrifice, saving westoros from the Others. Stannis legitimizes jon, and he rest under Winterfell with his father and brother, a little bias there, as jon is my favorite character.

seems like a bittersweet ending to me.

[Grumpygoat]

Tommen and Myrcella's parentage already has been leaked. All of Westeros has heard about it. And a good number of the kingdom probably believes it - even Kevan Lannister does.

As for Stannis legitimizing Roberts bastards, if he did that, he'd lose his claim. The sons of the king come before the brother of the king. Unless that's what you meant with Edric becoming king - Stannis legitimizes the bastards, then steps aside for them.

As for the "right" of the throne, the Baratheon's hold the throne now specifically because of their Targaryen blood; Jon Arryn, Eddard Stark, and Robert decided between themselves Robert had the best claim to the throne due to his Targaryen ancestry. And it'd make a hypocrite of Stannis to say he rules because the Baratheon's were able to kick the Targaryens off the throne - it's logic like that which Renly used, and was assassinated by Stannis for.

And by that logic, Tommen has the right of the throne because the Lannisters were able to punt the Baratheons from it.

[emberling]

Samir, is it not highly likely that someone is going to be able to give the boot to the extremely week Lannister (hiding as Baratheon) dynasty in place? Any alliance of three or four kingdoms could do it, counting Dany as a kingdom. The Lannisters are almost out of quality commanders and betrayal by Tyrell is quite likely; their hold on the Vale is nonexistent and the Riverlands are pretty much gutted. Why would they keep the throne if anyone at all cared to take it from them? And, of course, we know that at least one young girl who knows little of the ways of war plans on giving it a good try.

[Grant Dempsey]

And it'd make a hypocrite of Stannis to say he rules because the Baratheon's were able to kick the Targaryens off the throne - it's logic like that which Renly used, and was assassinated by Stannis for.

Stannis Baratheon was a hypocrite even before A Game of Thrones, then, because he certainly knew the Targaryen children existed. Same with Eddard Stark, for insisting on him as the lawful heir.

[Erik of Hazelfield]

If the Lannisters win, everything is easy. Tommen and Margaery rule the realm. But that's boring, so let's speculate further.

If Dany wins, but proves to be barren - which is by no means certain - then by law the throne should pass on to Robert Baratheon's heirs (since the Baratheons have some Targaryen ancestry). That either means Tommen or Stannis, depending on who you're asking.

Now let's assume Dany figures out the truth about Jaime and Cersei. Then Stannis should be her heir. But as Stannis played a crucial role in the rebellion against her father, that simply won't happen. He's a traitor. Besides, he's an old man facing a deadly enemy so it's unlikely he'll outlive Dany.

Who's next then? Shireen of course! She's just a child, innocent of the treason Stannis committed. So all Dany has to do is name her heir, marry her off to an ally of hers, and found a new dynasty.

But who will be the lucky man? Well, that's a tougher question, but I'll put my money on a wild card: Rickon! Remember where you read it first. =)

[Grumpygoat]

Stannis Baratheon was a hypocrite even before A Game of Thrones, then, because he certainly knew the Targaryen children existed. Same with Eddard Stark, for insisting on him as the lawful heir.

Neither children were in any position to put forth their claim, though. And if they tried, they'd have had their throats slit for it.

But, for what it's worth, Stannis certainly is Roberts rightful heir.

It still stands, though, that the Lannisters plotting their way to the throne is just as valid a claim to it as the Baratheons winning it militarily.

It's perhaps better to say no one has the right of the throne. The Targaryens had it to begin with because their dragons conquered Westeros. Then the Baratheons had it because they overthrew the Targaryens. Now the Lannisters have it because they outmaneuvered the Baratheons.

Dany thinks its hers because it was her family's throne to begin with. Stannis thinks it's his because he's Roberts trueborn, blood heir. The Lannisters think it's theirs because they're currently sitting on it right now.

And, in the end, it all comes down to what everyone else thinks. Next to no one acknowledges Stannis. That's unlikely to change. Many people believe Tommen's a bastard, but support him, anyway. That's near-guaranteed to change. Most people didn't even think of Dany. That's already changing.

But I do suppose Stannis is guilty of some hypocrisy. He'd be made an even bigger one, though, if he tried telling Dany that she has no right to the Iron Throne because the Baratheons caved her brothers chest in. It was easy to turn a blind eye to the Targaryens when they were out of sight, out of mind, just this side of non-entities. It'll be another when they're actually in Westeros, dragons and all.

[emberling]

Hrm, I hadn't thought of Shireen. Certainly possible. But for some reason I have a feeling that someone as hideous as she is, with a very weak blood tie to the throne and child of a traitor, wouldn't be accepted. Tyrion has a chance because he's an extremely intelligent adult that knows what the fuck he's doing and has a twisted but sometimes very effective charisma. I can't recall whether Shireen is mentally damaged at all, but even so, I'd expect the nobles of Westeros to find some other solution when choosing a malleable child successor. I don't think Dany would exactly be adamantly in support of the child of Stannis, innocent or no, and if the rest of the nobles also didn't want her then they'd find someone else.

[Grant Dempsey]

But I do suppose Stannis is guilty of some hypocrisy. He'd be made an even bigger one, though, if he tried telling Dany that she has no right to the Iron Throne because the Baratheons caved her brothers chest in. It was easy to turn a blind eye to the Targaryens when they were out of sight, out of mind, just this side of non-entities. It'll be another when they're actually in Westeros, dragons and all.

That would be less just proving himself not hypocritical and more going, "Oops, you've actually got an army. I guess you can come in, then! Don't hurt me..." If denying any Targaryen claim would mean being hypocritical, Stannis was already guilty of it in the first place.

Ultimately, like you said, it depends on who you ask and what you think. Stannis may believe Robert's Rebellion amounted to not only a legitimate ousting of the Targaryens, but a legitimate start to a dynasty beginning from his brother (thus still invalidating the lion's cubs' claims).

We'd need to see Stannis Baratheon's arguments against Daenerys Targaryen's claim (if he would indeed argue against it) before we could really get to the bottom of his thoughts on why.

Besides, to be hypocritical is to be human, really. There's bound to be hypocrisy in some part of an individual's beliefs or opinions. Perhaps this is where a flaw appears in his feelings.

[Arakano]

Tyrion has a chance because he's an extremely intelligent adult that knows what the fuck he's doing and has a twisted but sometimes very effective charisma.

Tyrion lacks charisma. That is his main weakness. AND he is a dwarf, which is a further weakness, similar to Shireens being ugly. And he killed his father. AND he has no relationship to any further royal line whatsoever. So NO, Tyrion fanboys, I do not think he has ANY chance to become king.

[Cornchowder]

But who will be the lucky man? Well, that's a tougher question, but I'll put my money on a wild card: Rickon! Remember where you read it first. =)

I like this angle. Count me on the boat!

[Grant Dempsey]

Well, it's clear from his discussion with Davos, that Stannis carefully decided whether to follow his brother, or his king. It wasn't an automatic decision for him. So there's probably some reasoning behind it.

Going from that, Stannis Baratheon's need to deny and oppose Daenerys Targaryen's claim may -- in his mind -- go beyond even just his duty to the realm as king, but his duty to his family and his House as his brother's rightful heir.

[Grumpygoat]

Tyrion lacks charisma. That is his main weakness. AND he is a dwarf, which is a further weakness, similar to Shireens being ugly. And he killed his father. AND he has no relationship to any further royal line whatsoever. So NO, Tyrion fanboys, I do not think he has ANY chance to become king.

Tyrion only lacks charisma with those he doesn't socialize with. To all outward appearances, he's a stunted little dwarf. However, he abounds with charisma, otherwise. He won Bronn over and a few other members of Cat's party on the way to the Vale. He did the same with the Old Bear when he visited the Wall. And a few of the Starks, Jon most notably.

Tyrion abounds with charisma, if he's actually given half a chance. His problem is getting that chance to begin with.

And Tyrion stands every chance of becoming king if one of two things happens: he becomes a head of the dragon or marries Dany. Both of which have some possibility of happening. Being that he's one of the most knowledgeable dragon scholars likely to be found, he's probably going to become one of the dragon heads.

And if he's a dragon head, along with Dany and we'll say Bran, he's possibly the only one who could leave behind heirs. So Dany might name him as her successor. And if Jon's the other head instead of Bran, his oaths give him some difficulty in becoming king. So, again: Tyrion becomes a likelier candidate. He's the only one not precluded from marriage that we know can have children.

The marriage is iffy, but fits in with the idea of the three heads of the dragon marrying much the same as with Aegon and his sisters. Dany may not do it for love, but may for some sort of gain.

Does it mean it will happen? No.

But to say it doesn't have any chance? That's just ignoring a few key possibilities.

[emberling]

The believable path to Tyrion becoming king would be if he receives massive support and power during Daenerys's reign, possibly including a seat on top of a large reptile. It's obviously not something that can happen without a whole lot of intervening stuff happening, but it's stuff that would very possibly happen on Tyrion's current most likely path, that of Dany's adviser. Hence it is believable.

There's a huge difference between accepting the queenship of an ugly, deformed, stupid, and naive child and accepting the kingship of an ugly, deformed, brilliant man who happens to be pointing a fire-breathing dragon at your head.

Not that I think Tyrion is a shoo-in for dragonrider or anything, but it's a fairly likely path for him.

And yes, he has charisma. The wit and character necessary to make people truly like him despite his many flaws. It's a double-edged sword that he hasn't yet learned to control - he speaks his mind impulsively at times, and thus tends to lose instantly what his natural charm builds up. And perhaps it's too crude to be relevant to Kingship, or too personal - it's not a leadership quality for him, but a friendship quality. It's the charisma of a bard or a jester, not of a King. But it could be developed until it is a reliable tool, and is thus certainly a point in his favor (since we're talking about the far future).

edit: while i was typing this Grumpygoat said what I wanted to say better than I said it.

[ironmaid]

And yes, he has charisma. The wit and character necessary to make people truly like him despite his many flaws. It's a double-edged sword that he hasn't yet learned to control - he speaks his mind impulsively at times, and thus tends to lose instantly what his natural charm builds up. And perhaps it's too crude to be relevant to Kingship, or too personal - it's not a leadership quality for him, but a friendship quality. It's the charisma of a bard or a jester, not of a King. But it could be developed until it is a reliable tool, and is thus certainly a point in his favor (since we're talking about the far future).

edit: while i was typing this Grumpygoat said what I wanted to say better than I said it.

Kurokaze, I rather think your description of Tyrion's charisma is the more accurate one (hence I bold marked it). To quote from a favorite source, in one of the episodes of The West Wing there is a discussion about the 'presidential voice'. I'd say Tyrion doesn't have it, but then again, after Santos is being grilled thoroughly about lacking the presidential voice he realizes that it is the president that shapes the voice and not the other way around

Still, Tyrion as a king is not my favorite for when all is said and done. Perhaps I like the guy too much to wish it on him

[Dharma]

The Great Other - With his vision, there'll be established the first undeadocracy, one of history's most misunderstood minorities.

You bastard! I was going to write that :mad:

[Allyn Snow]

Sansa will be First Empress of Westeros

[Sanctume]

Stannis will legitimize Jon before he moves out of the north, similar to how Robb did.

Tommen will die when KL is razed by Stannis.

The Church moved south to establish it's power base since the KL is gone off the map.

The Church versus The Citadel has a show down, The Citadel wins using uber magic.

Stannis invades further into the south, and Stannis eventually dies with Doran which then reddens that pool he likes to watch the kids play.

The Sand Snakes are loose, but has started a 3-way civil war.

Jon will be the next heir; just in time as Dany arrives in the north.

Conflict. Dany want the throne.

But Dany and Jon falls in love; they have sex. Or they have sex first, then fall in love. Or they fought, grappled each other, and started kissing as their hormones take over. Either way, they have detailed passionate sex.

Dany declares as the true heir of Westeros dissolves the Night Watch's rules of marriage. Jon is whipped by hot sex at this point.

Dany marries Jon, so now Jon in king.

Jon being a square boyscout he is, learns Rickon is still alive and passes kingship to him.

Reed becomes Rickon's Hand.

It also happens that Sansa is revealed in her wedding with Harry the Heir, and controls the north.

Sansa becomes Queen Regeant until Rickon is of age.

Oh yeah, Arya heard Sansa is back, and Sansa whispered LF's name. Arya kills LF.

---

Winter Has Come

Bran shows up in The Wall as an uber level with epic spells, and warg ability.

Jon and Dany prefers to war with the Others, with Tyrion as their midget comedy in tow.

Tyrion dies, and becomes an Other because it would be funny to see a midget Other.

---

The End. :cry:

[Arakano]

And Tyrion stands every chance of becoming king if one of two things happens: he becomes a head of the dragon or marries Dany. Both of which have some possibility of happening.

Actually, I see the possibility of Tyrion marrying Dany as REALLY low. I mean, aside from being the brother of Jaime and the son of Tywin, both hated traitors, he is UGLY, a DWARF, and has a faible for WHORES. Yes, EVERY queen would fall head over heels for him.

Seriously, Dany refused Jorah because he is not up to par with Drogo. How can Tyrion compare to the great Khan-I-mean-Khal?

[Grumpygoat]

Actually, I see the possibility of Tyrion marrying Dany as REALLY low. I mean, aside from being the brother of Jaime and the son of Tywin, both hated traitors, he is UGLY, a DWARF, and has a faible for WHORES. Yes, EVERY queen would fall head over heels for him.

Seriously, Dany refused Jorah because he is not up to par with Drogo. How can Tyrion compare to the great Khan-I-mean-Khal?

Marrying Tyrion for Tyrion's unlikely. Marrying Tyrion for being a dragon rider isn't too off base. Dany might deliberately emulate Aegon and marry the other two riders. If she winds up taking two husbands, then Tyrions looks become less important if the other fellow's of a more comely nature.

However, I already said such a marriage is iffy. It isn't completely impossible, though, which also means Tyrion as king isn't impossible, either. I'm not specifically rooting for him, mind you - if asked who I'd like to be king, I'd probably say Bran. But Tyrion - along with every other original, surviving Point of View character except for Arya - all seem to have some chance at the Iron Throne, be it from Littlefingers maneuvering (Sansa), Targaryen blood (Jon, Dany), or being a dragon head (everyone except Sansa).

[Arakano]

Marrying Tyrion for Tyrion's unlikely. Marrying Tyrion for being a dragon rider isn't too off base. Dany might deliberately emulate Aegon and marry the other two riders. If she winds up taking two husbands, then Tyrions looks become less important if the other fellow's of a more comely nature.

However, I already said such a marriage is iffy. It isn't completely impossible, though, which also means Tyrion as king isn't impossible, either. I'm not specifically rooting for him, mind you - if asked who I'd like to be king, I'd probably say Bran. But Tyrion - along with every other original, surviving Point of View character except for Arya - all seem to have some chance at the Iron Throne, be it from Littlefingers maneuvering (Sansa), Targaryen blood (Jon, Dany), or being a dragon head (everyone except Sansa).

Hm, I know a certain Phillip who married a certain queen but is still not refered to as king. So, maybe Tyrion marries Dany and still does not become king.