Forgot your password?
Or sign in with one of these services
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.
Xray the Enforcer, 14 Jul 2011
Posted 14 Jul 2011
Posted 15 Jul 2011
Worse then Ned.
Worse then the Red Wedding.
Well sh-t.Worse then Ned.Worse then the Red Wedding.Just...Damn.
Yeah, I'm a few hundred pages from the end and figured I'd flip through to see what all chapters were left. Skimmed a bit of the last part of this chapter, then of course I had to read the entire last page, and now I'm really wishing I didn't. Ever hear about this series, that is. ><
For what it's worth, it certainly doesn't look good for him. At all. And he's probably dead. But I can think of two ways he would "survive".
1), right after he blacked out and the fourth dagger stabbed him, someone shows up and stops them, and Jon is severely injured and dying but not quite dead, with the potential to survive it.
2), Melisandre pulls a Thoros and resurrects him ala Beric.
It certainly doesn't look good, but the last thing we see is him blacking out after getting stabbed. Not quite the same as Catelyn's chapter ending with her throat being slit, followed by definitive confirmation that she's dead (although she would come back, of course...still, Stoneheart is almost a shadow of her).
If that is Jon's end I am done
I agree that Jon's not dead.
He probably didn't feel the fourth blade because there wasn't any.(the ungentle giant may have saved him or whatewer).
The second version is even better- Melissandre reviving him- thus fulfilling the prophecy about Azor Ahai- being born in a storm 'n' all.
Personally, I think this is just GRRM's way of saying "I love you guys".
I think GRRM has invested too much time and effort into Dany, Tyrion and Jon characters to kill'em off.If Jon is dead (or if he is and will stay that way), why would we have 13 Jon chapters in Dance when all the action could be compressed in 6 (by merciless editing)?
So i'd be willing to bet good money that we'll se Jon in TWOW, if we are alive by the time the book's done.
OR, GRRM was VERY angry that so many people bought R+L=J theory (yikes! They've figured it out!) that, in anger, he decided to kill Jon. I'd plead for manslaughter, if I was him. Might get out after only, say, 10 yrs;)
BTW, what do you guys think about Ramsay's letter?
A load'a turnips, methinks.
The Boltons probably decided to give battle to Stannis, got out of the castle and found the half dosen Umbers waiting, since Stannis is STILL freezing somewhere else.
Using his superior skill at interrogation Ramsay found out where they've sent Reek and about other stuff (conditions on the wall, Stannis' prisoner etc. )
GRRM is genius. Does anyone actually care anymore if R+L=J? There are larger questions to ponder now.
I don't think he's dead, but GAH!!! What would be the point of his whole story and all that time invested in him if he just gets killed like that? I guess for the same reason Ned died - to advance the plot. Now a really bad guy like Thorne can be LC, to be replaced by Tormond. I thought that Ghost was being warged by the guy with the boar, and that Ghost was going to attack Jon. He can't be dead. I don't care if he's not anyone special by blood - I love his story. AARRGGHH.
I think the Bolton letter was false - Stannis isn't dead either. Ramsay is just about the most hideously corrupt character I've ever read.
This came right after the chapter when Quentyn got burnt. Stannis and his army are dead. Ramsay Bolton has a firm grip on the North. Jon is now dead, too. SCREW YOU, GRRM. Though I tend to think that Quentyn's just dying, Ramsay was lying about Stannis, and Jon will be saved (ala Thoros, I guess).
BTW did that stabbing scene reminded anyone of Julius Caesar being stabbed in the senate by his fellow senators (with Bowen Marsh = Brutus)?
I wouldn't say this is as bad as the Red Wedding. Not even close imo. Jon is too integral to the plot to just be killed like that. Add the fact that GRRM has been bringing characters back lately and all of the warg exposition at the beginning, Jon's not going to stay dead. I don't buy that for a second.
Posted 16 Jul 2011
It still put a bad taste in my mouth. I'm completely unconvinced that Jon is going to die or if he does stay dead, but that still doesn't mean it wasn't a dickish way to end his last chapter.
I have to say, I did NOT see that coming. I know GRRM has a penchant for killing off characters when least expected, but still. Granted, there's no guarantee that Jon is actually dead. I wouldn't be surprised if the free folk rioted to protect him, in fact. And it really feels like he has a lot more to do. But then, it felt like Robb had more to do at the Red Wedding, so....
What Victarion's red priest did for his hand Melly will do for Jon x 10
Black was always Jon's color!
I don't think that Jon is dead or that he will die (throughout the series I got the impression that Jon, Dany and Tyrion are the only characters that are probably safe from being killed off in the series), still it doesn't mean I appreciate cliffhanger of an ending.
I had a sinking feeling when Mel keeps mentioning to keep Ghost with him. As soon as Ghost bit a NW brother's hand and being all antsy, I knew things were going bad for Jon. Remember Grey Winds's actions before the Red Wedding? Those wolves KNOW.
Another thing that struck me as I recalled Bran's first vision and he sees Jon cold and hard as all the warmth fled. Maybe he saw Jon's death (or perhaps becomes a wight like Coldhands?)
If Jon is dead, I'm really puzzled as to where the series is going now. I was convinced that Jon was Ice and Dany is Fire for A Song if Ice and Fire or if Jon is R(fire) + L (Ice)=J.
I still feel the RW was worse.
I had a sinking feeling when Mel keeps mentioning to keep Ghost with him. As soon as Ghost bit a NW brother's hand and being all antsy, I knew things were going bad for Jon. Remember Grey Winds's actions before the Red Wedding? Those wolves KNOW.Another thing that struck me as I recalled Bran's first vision and he sees Jon cold and hard as all the warmth fled. Maybe he saw Jon's death (or perhaps becomes a wight like Coldhands?)If Jon is dead, I'm really puzzled as to where the series is going now. I was convinced that Jon was Ice and Dany is Fire for A Song if Ice and Fire or if Jon is R(fire) + L (Ice)=J. I still feel the RW was worse.
I was sure that it was Dany and Jon as well, but now we don't know who Ice is and Fire could also be Aegon...