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What Country Does Each Kingdom Represent Historically?


I.Know.Nothing

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The Dornish horses are identifiable as Arabians to anyone who knows their horses: Tyrion describes them as "slim and swift, with long necks and narrow, beautiful heads" and also says that they were smaller than warhorses but "it was said that they could run for a day and night and another day, and never tire". Arabian horses are known for their stamina and long, slim necks and narrow, beautiful heads are two of their defining characteristics. This, plus the fact that Dorne is described as having a desert climate, led me to associate Dorne with the North of Africa.

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Well, yes, but you forget marked similarities with Rhodes, like the Titan. Also the Banks could point to Milan or Florence.

About the Children of the Forest, check this out: They are very markedly similar to Native Americans, the use of obsidian, they not knowing of bronze until the First Men came. It seems to be they are like a mixture of a lot of Native American, the tree-worship from Celts and then the First Men are like the advent of the Bronze Age Greeks. The Andals although they are reminiscent in name of the Vandals, they were similar to the Normans as pointed out above.

Bruges had banks and so did Amsterdam...

Children of the Forest are explicity not human, they're obviously elves, korbalds or Tuatha De Danaan

Linguistic evidence points towards the First Men being speakers of a Germanic Language. Even though they fit the historical niche of the Celts.

Likewise Linguistic evidence points toward the Common Tongue being Celtic, though they fit the historical role of the Anglo-Saxons... Though their chivalry could be analogous to the chivalry of King Arthur's Court (in mythology not reality) which was Celtic.

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Bruges had banks and so did Amsterdam...

Children of the Forest are explicity not human, they're obviously elves, korbalds or Tuatha De Danaan

Linguistic evidence points towards the First Men being speakers of a Germanic Language. Even though they fit the historical niche of the Celts.

Likewise Linguistic evidence points toward the Common Tongue being Celtic, though they fit the historical role of the Anglo-Saxons... Though their chivalry could be analogous to the chivalry of King Arthur's Court (in mythology not reality) which was Celtic.

Where does it say that the Children are like Elves? Also... the Tuatha are gods in any case... or ancient people if you follow the Leabhar Ghabhala... neither one of those seems close to elves or kobolds. Also you must have in mind that when Europeans came in contact with Native Americans they didn't know what they were and could have easily said they were dwarves or elves or whatever mythological creature suited best. Plus, I'm not saying they are the NA, I'm saying they fill a similar role, that and a mix with other kinds or roles.

What linguistic evidence is that? That sort of things can be easily bypassed if we assume that the author used "English" as a translation to the "Common Tongue" proper and used names that we would understand in our world whenever they were from the Seven Kingdoms. Tolkien did this, for example.

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Where does it say that the Children are like Elves? Also... the Tuatha are gods in any case... or ancient people if you follow the Leabhar Ghabhala... neither one of those seems close to elves or kobolds. Also you must have in mind that when Europeans came in contact with Native Americans they didn't know what they were and could have easily said they were dwarves or elves or whatever mythological creature suited best. Plus, I'm not saying they are the NA, I'm saying they fill a similar role, that and a mix with other kinds or roles.

What linguistic evidence is that? That sort of things can be easily bypassed if we assume that the author used "English" as a translation to the "Common Tongue" proper and used names that we would understand in our world whenever they were from the Seven Kingdoms. Tolkien did this, for example.

The Children of the Forest are so magical and inhuman (living forever etc) so I can't really see them as being like any human race, despite their use of obsidian weapons.

So any mythological race from dwarves, korbalds, gnomes, elves, pixies, tuatha de Danaan would do.

I meant the names that many Wildlings, Northerners, Iron Islanders have are either Scandinavian or Germanic.

But they still fulfill the historical niche that the Celts fulfilled: 1st Wave of Human inhabitants.

Likewise many Andals seem to have names that are Celtic (Kevan, Duncan, Genna) and red hair.

Having said that the Andals still represent the Anglo-Saxons in the role they play: 2nd wave of human inhabitants.

So the Common Tongue would be a Celtic language, which is being translated for us.

Likewise the Rhoynar in Dorne have a Spanish culture and climate, but politically they act like the Welsh during the Wars of the Roses (Lancastrian-Targaryen loyalists).

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I think it s the post I like the least : the map is way too big compared to UK and people are way too different in Westeros.

It's so similar to Great Britain! Let me explain... The Andels (the Angles anyone?)

The North- Scotland (what with the fierce independance but forced union with the great southern state?)

Iron Islands- Isle of Lewis, Isle of Skye, heck could even be the Orkneys.

The Westerlands- Wales

Kings Landing- London (with the South being England)

Dorne- Cornwall.

A couple more interesting similarities:

1. The Wildlings are quite similar to the highland clans of Scotland. Independant, living off the land, wild and often feared. With their lands inaccessible (until General Wade built roads, the bastard.)

2. The Wall. Hadrian s Wall, just moved farther north.

3. The men of the Nights Watch. So similar of the Black Watch special forces regiment in the British Army. Wearing their own special black uniforms. from the north, super-awesome, etc.

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It's so similar to Great Britain! Let me explain... The Andels (the Angles anyone?)

The North- Scotland (what with the fierce independance but forced union with the great southern state?)

Iron Islands- Isle of Lewis, Isle of Skye, heck could even be the Orkneys.

The Westerlands- Wales

Kings Landing- London (with the South being England)

Dorne- Cornwall.

A couple more interesting similarities:

1. The Wildlings are quite similar to the highland clans of Scotland. Independant, living off the land, wild and often feared. With their lands inaccessible (until General Wade built roads, the bastard.)

2. The Wall. Hadrian s Wall, just moved farther north.

3. The men of the Nights Watch. So similar of the Black Watch special forces regiment in the British Army. Wearing their own special black uniforms. from the north, super-awesome, etc.

Skagos has http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Magnar

and the Orkneys has

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnus_Erlendsson,_Earl_of_Orkney

I would say that the Iron Islands would be analogous to Ireland, though their culture is Viking

and

Scotland=Wildlings

The North=The North

The Midlands=The Riverlands

The Westcountry=the Westerlands (including Cornwall with it's mines)

East Anglia=The Vale (which does have some cultural similarities to Wales)

London and the Home Counties=The Crownlands

Insufficient knowledge of England (Centre and South of England)=The Reach (which is culturally French)

Insufficient Knowlege of England=The Stormlands, though it is sitting close to where Kent would be.

Wales=Dorne, but culturally Spanish. The Welsh were Lancastrian loyalists during the Wars of the Roses, as the Dornish are Targaryen loyalists.

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it's hot, the food, Spain when through a vary liberal period (such as during the reign of Urraca of Castile). http://en.wikipedia....B3n_and_Castile

the way they dress. It's all Spanishy.

Ehhhh... I think you are thinking about Mexico...

How's Spain that hot? It snows there, you know? Also I think you even think of the Moors rather than Spain... it's not the same

They seem to me more moorish than Spanish... turban helms?! That's not Spanish...

I think you all mistake Spanish with Arab and Moor

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I'm not arguing like many of you seem to be doing but this is how I was seeing it, as an Englishman from the North-West of England myself.

The North: Yorkshire, the largest historical county in England - considering the Starks are meant to represent the House of York (in the War of the Roses analogue).

Westerlands: Lancashire (ruling seat, Lancaster ... sounds a lot like Lannister). Again, War of the Roses analogy. Might add that I considered Lannisport to be a lot like Liverpool during the days of the British Empire ... on the coast, major port, one of the richest cities in the world. I'm expecting there to be some nod towards the Liver Birds or the Three Graces on the Liverpool skyline should we ever see Lannisport in the books (which I expect we will after reading ADWD).

Riverlands: Cumbria - the Lake District.

Iron Islands: Saxons / Vikings culturally, but Ireland politically.

The Vale: I never really devised an analogy for the Vale when I was reading but it seems to point to Scotland after reading this thread.

Dorne: Wales politically, but very obvious Iberian culture.

The Reach: The Reach just seemed to me to be a nod to Camelot and Arthurian legend - which are said to be in Somerset. With the whole, home of chivalry and knighthood and that.

Braavos: I always imagined Braavos as Venice because I never saw the Amsterdam nod. The bravos did make me think of musketeers and the Scarlet Pimpernel though.

Valyria: Atlantis/Pompeii with some Rome and Ancient Greece thrown in there.

Dothraki: I saw them as Mongols and the Golden Hoard, but basically just "savage" Rohirrim.

Robert Baratheon: Henry VIII - once brave and fierce fighter who all the women fancied, became a fat drunk who slept around.

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Dothraki: I saw them as Mongols and the Golden Hoard, but basically just "savage" Rohirrim.

I agree with most of what you said... but c'mon!! Rohirrim? Really?

I don't think there's anything so different from the Rohirrim, also taking into account that the Rohirrim were modelled after the Anglosaxons. They loved their horses, but they loved them really and gave them names and all that stuff... they surely didn't eat them... I think there are too many differences. I think the Dothraki share more in common with the Huns in their social and the Mongols in that they are riders from the steeps and also the title Khal/Kahn

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I agree with most of what you said... but c'mon!! Rohirrim? Really?

I don't think there's anything so different from the Rohirrim, also taking into account that the Rohirrim were modelled after the Anglosaxons. They loved their horses, but they loved them really and gave them names and all that stuff... they surely didn't eat them... I think there are too many differences. I think the Dothraki share more in common with the Huns in their social and the Mongols in that they are riders from the steeps and also the title Khal/Kahn

Chill out. I just meant the whole nation built on horses thing.

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I'm not arguing like many of you seem to be doing but this is how I was seeing it, as an Englishman from the North-West of England myself.

The North: Yorkshire, the largest historical county in England - considering the Starks are meant to represent the House of York (in the War of the Roses analogue).

Westerlands: Lancashire (ruling seat, Lancaster ... sounds a lot like Lannister). Again, War of the Roses analogy. Might add that I considered Lannisport to be a lot like Liverpool during the days of the British Empire ... on the coast, major port, one of the richest cities in the world. I'm expecting there to be some nod towards the Liver Birds or the Three Graces on the Liverpool skyline should we ever see Lannisport in the books (which I expect we will after reading ADWD).

Riverlands: Cumbria - the Lake District.

Iron Islands: Saxons / Vikings culturally, but Ireland politically.

The Vale: I never really devised an analogy for the Vale when I was reading but it seems to point to Scotland after reading this thread.

Dorne: Wales politically, but very obvious Iberian culture.

The Reach: The Reach just seemed to me to be a nod to Camelot and Arthurian legend - which are said to be in Somerset. With the whole, home of chivalry and knighthood and that.

Braavos: I always imagined Braavos as Venice because I never saw the Amsterdam nod. The bravos did make me think of musketeers and the Scarlet Pimpernel though.

Valyria: Atlantis/Pompeii with some Rome and Ancient Greece thrown in there.

Dothraki: I saw them as Mongols and the Golden Hoard, but basically just "savage" Rohirrim.

Robert Baratheon: Henry VIII - once brave and fierce fighter who all the women fancied, became a fat drunk who slept around.

isn't another name for Wales "The Vale" or the way Switzerland is always neutral. But I think the Vale is like East Anglia in that it was the first place that the Andals arrived in whilst East Anglia has the earliest Anglo-Saxon settlement in England.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Remember in ADWD the description of human sacrifice to the Old Gods?

Well

Now Mars has always been worshipped by the Goths with cruel rites, and captives were slain as his victims. They thought that he who is the lord of war ought to be appeased by the shedding of human blood. To him they devoted the first share of the spoil, and in his honor arms stripped from the foe were suspended from trees. And they had more than all other races a deep spirit of religion, since the worship of this god seemed to be really bestowed upon their ancestor. —

The pagan sacrifices, known as
, were seasonal celebrations where gifts were offered to appropriate gods and attempts were made to forecast what the coming season would be like. Similar events were sometimes convened in times of crisis, for much the same reasons.
The sacrifices, consisting of gold, weapons, animals, and even human beings, were hung on the branches of a holy tree.

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I'm not arguing like many of you seem to be doing but this is how I was seeing it, as an Englishman from the North-West of England myself.

The North: Yorkshire, the largest historical county in England - considering the Starks are meant to represent the House of York (in the War of the Roses analogue).

Westerlands: Lancashire (ruling seat, Lancaster ... sounds a lot like Lannister). Again, War of the Roses analogy. Might add that I considered Lannisport to be a lot like Liverpool during the days of the British Empire ... on the coast, major port, one of the richest cities in the world. I'm expecting there to be some nod towards the Liver Birds or the Three Graces on the Liverpool skyline should we ever see Lannisport in the books (which I expect we will after reading ADWD).

Riverlands: Cumbria - the Lake District.

Iron Islands: Saxons / Vikings culturally, but Ireland politically.

The Vale: I never really devised an analogy for the Vale when I was reading but it seems to point to Scotland after reading this thread.

Dorne: Wales politically, but very obvious Iberian culture.

The Reach: The Reach just seemed to me to be a nod to Camelot and Arthurian legend - which are said to be in Somerset. With the whole, home of chivalry and knighthood and that.

Braavos: I always imagined Braavos as Venice because I never saw the Amsterdam nod. The bravos did make me think of musketeers and the Scarlet Pimpernel though.

Valyria: Atlantis/Pompeii with some Rome and Ancient Greece thrown in there.

Dothraki: I saw them as Mongols and the Golden Hoard, but basically just "savage" Rohirrim.

Robert Baratheon: Henry VIII - once brave and fierce fighter who all the women fancied, became a fat drunk who slept around.

I follow a fairly strict Wars of the Roses interpretation of the basic story set-up. The Baratheons would be the Yorks and the Targaryens would be the Lancasters. Robert would be Edward IV, who was also a "once brave and fierce fighter who all the women fancied" but let himself go. He just didn't do it as memorably as Henry VIII. Like Robert, he also had bastards all the hell over the place. Ned would be a more virtuous version of William Hastings, Edward IV's Lord Chancellor who lost his head.

Other than that, I agree with most of your assessment. :)

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