Raging Bear Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 This is a question for all you true believers:Do you think it is possible for GRRM to finish the series in a consistent, satisfying manner without R+L=J being true?If yes, what is one possible senario for this happening?Do you believe R+L=J being true is actually bad writing and that there are many other senarios that are better?If no, why?Do you see fell the evidence for R+L=J is insurmountable and having it turn out to be false would be nothing less than a bait-and-switch?I am interested in where people stand on this issue but more importantly how important it is to them and how commited they are to their positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordonah Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yes.The theory is a possibility, but there are other reasonable possibilities too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaius Martell Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Do you think it is possible for GRRM to finish the series in a consistent, satisfying manner without R+L=J being true?I don't see Jon Snow or his parentage being the single, make-or-break part of the series, so yes, easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l3ol3o Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think R+L=J was planned from the very beginning and George has no choice but to go through with it now. I think both Jons and Danys arcs depend on it as does the resolution of the meta story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pellaeon Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 There is no need for the truth in the series, Jons parentage is only importand if he is AA or when Westeros needs a Targ king Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melq Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 R+L=J is highly unlikely to be proven false, there are too many lines, hints, clues in the books that confirm this theory, perhaps this is revealed but it doesn't have much importance as many people think.There is always the possibility of Jon's parentage turning out to be different, but something have to be revealed on this topic, too many lines invested in different POVs ( Cat, Arya, Davos, Eddard etc..) on Jon's parentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Gathers Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I wouldn't say that it's bad writing if readers spot the hints. I'd say it's really well written if clues people read between the lines turn out to be true. If some random history comes up in TWTOW as well as a few new characters we've never heard of who propose Jon's real parentage; that would be bad writing.As long as the story goes, I don't think his heritage will matter much. There are too many plots for that single one to matter. I mean, if he is the trueborn son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, then they still need proof and support. Stannis told the Realm that Joffrey and the other bastards were children born of incest, that didn't change much since the children still had the power. Do you see where I'm going with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kkae Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 If R+L=J is false I would be able give a smug smile to those who have been touting the theory as truth but other than that it doesn't really mean much for me.Hard to say if the possible reveal of Jon's parentage has much weight on the overall story at this point. For him sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Personally, I think Jon's parentage is a big part of the completion of his development, from bastard relegated to the back of the feasting room to deserving lord.It's a feature of both Dany and Jon - both have learned the hard way, with something of a silver spoon to give them a head start and raise them a little above the rest, but with both learning how to rule (and making mistakes in the process) where their success was not a given and relied wholly upon their own performance, resilience and skills. Both are clearly standout leaders in a world of petty rivalries and greed, and whether they clash or unite they clearly represent the future of Westeros.In which case, leadership of the Night's Watch isn't enough for Jon's character.Like Aragon's journey through Dunharrow, it's not essential for the story but at the same time it pretty much is because it's a massively important part of his character development and the story would be much weaker without that character development. It strikes me, based upon what we know, that Jon is one of the key characters and it does seem to me that not developing Jon's character in the same way, giving him depth and history, would similarly leave the story weaker and unfulfilling.I've said many times that I don't believe that R+L=J is obvious to everybody. We know about if because, if we hadn't put the pieces together ourselves, there are threads about it. But the majority don't read the message boards and I know many avid readers who haven't considered the theory. On that basis, I wouldn't say that departing from the theory would be good writing (building up a theory and then pulling a twist) or that sticking with the theory is too obvious. In any event, I don't care for twists - going back to the Aragorn analogy, we all believed that he was destined for greatness but that didn't make the story any weaker for it. It's about the journey.The key trick is making the story momentous, one for all time. Why write in this level of detail about the present time, rather than the Blackfyre Rebellion or Robert's Rebellion, for example? In order to be momentous, the present needs to be rooted in the past, bringing strands together and concluding open issues. Resolving mysteries and legends. That's why I believe that YG is a Blackfyre, for example.The loss of Rhaegar (important because of what we're told about his personality, superstition etc.) and the mystery surrounding Lyanna are clearly important, open strands. It's hard to think of a better way to bring the story together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walder Waters Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 There is allways the possibility that he changes his mind, but I don't think he will. R+L=J seems to be planned from the beginning.Furthermore it is literarily awesome! All these hints and metaphors and as it was said before it is not that obvious, if you read the books not more than once. And in order to notice them at all you have first to realize the possibility that Ned may not be his father. And the latter is never questioned by the POV characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Flowers Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I do not think it changes anything personally, he is in the Nights Watch. He took an oath to serve there until death and I think Jon has more honor in him than to break his oath. So, I see the outcome being the same no matter who his father is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COYStars Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I do not think it changes anything personally, he is in the Nights Watch. He took an oath to serve there until death and I think Jon has more honor in him than to break his oath. So, I see the outcome being the same no matter who his father is.I don't disagree with you.I don't think it's that simple, though. The vow only holds for as long as there is a Wall (and/or for as long as there is a Night's Watch and he's part of it).Can't help feeling that the stabbing is a way of releasing him from his vow. I just hope that it's not through death and coming back from the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrous Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think R+L=J is more something for the readers to find out and enjoy, then something that will have any real plot importance.At the very least I believe Jon will never consider a Targ and will not claim the iron throne or become King of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Hodor Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I think that, as so many of us believe in the theory, GRRM would love to shock us all speechless by doing something we would never expect with it.He's brilliantly cruel that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cirdan Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 Yes.The theory is a possibility, but there are other reasonable possibilities too.This. Still, it's the most obvious explanation to the mistery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affcwasmyfavorite Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 If its false I will herald GRRM as the best story writer of all time.To me it just takes too much away from Jon, his struggle to find a place in the world to me would be worthless if he already secretly had/has one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
episodenone Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I have no horse in this race.And I think most casual readers have no idea about this even being a possibility.It would give me a slight gloat to see yet another famous theory bite the dust -- but all in all I am not at all convinced by the arguments I have read here that this is no more than a theory -- and definitely not one that HAS to come true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxpey Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I don't want to be a true believer, but all the signs point to R + L = J as being true. We obviously have all the circumstantial evidence from the text, but the clincher for me are comments the writers and a couple of the actors from Game of Thrones have made in which they essentially acknowledge that GRRM told them that Ned is not Jon's father.Could GRRM be purposefully leading everyone, including the writers and the actors of the show, down a false path in order to play the ultimate "gotcha" on everybody? I seriously doubt it. Although I would love it if that turns out to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amitaibs3 Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 It will ruin this whole book series to me. It really will. All of you saying: "IT WILL BE GENIUS", IMO surprise isn't always the good thing to do. I sometimes feel as if GRRM wants to surprise us too much and it sometimes ruins the whole point of the story. If It is proven false, it is only because R+L=J became so known among the readers community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Spearwife Posted June 7, 2012 Share Posted June 7, 2012 I'm not sure if I want it to be true or not, but I think the references and hints and such as they are make it true. When I go around acting as a supporter, it's only because I believe the written word is suggesting it. If it is true, great for Ned, he wasn't unfaithful. If it's not true, great for Jon, he's made it without having that background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.