A question about Stannis

[FaSome]

With regards to Joffrey. The people hated Joffrey because he was a sadistic douchebag who treated the commoners terribly. Stannis shows how he treats commoners when he deals with the Wildlings. He wouldn't be massively popular with the lords, but he would be respected, and the people would probably be quite neutral, as they are with most kings.

Not having detailed knowledge of the North, which is thousands of miles away from Stannis- if Westeros is the size of South America as we are told- isn't exactly a massive failing. As you demonstrated, he also takes advice from the LC of the Night's Watch, a, what, sixteen year old, bastard he has only just met? He listens to council when it is given. In Cressen's prologue for ACoK, Stannis listens to Davos, then Cressen, the Mel. Stannis listens to those who know more than he does on a subject. That is why he listens to Jon. It's also quite impressive that the men who survived the Blackwater and stayed with him have continued to do so as he marched across a frozen continent in winter with little food. He even managed to bring the Mountain Clains and Glovers onside with Jon's advice.

The point I was making of Joffrey was you cant rule people that dislike you, at some point that will bite you in the ass. Stannis supporting some foreign god in the place of the seven will surely be looked down upon and probably even lead to war with the new faith militant if he were to get the throne.

The men he has left are loyal thats impressive, but what about all the ones that abandoned him on or after blackwater? and of the ones that surround him now roughly 50% of them are Melisandre's men in truth.

[ab aeterno]

The point I was making of Joffrey was you cant rule people that dislike you, at some point that will bite you in the ass. Stannis supporting some foreign god in the place of the seven will surely be looked down upon and probably even lead to war with the new faith militant if he were to get the throne.

The men he has left are loyal thats impressive, but what about all the ones that abandoned him on or after blackwater? and of the ones that surround him now roughly 50% of them are Melisandre's men in truth.

I understand your point against Joffrey, but you can rule people who don't like you, so long as they respect you. Everyone respects Stannis, from what we are told, even if most dislike him. The Red God stuff won't help, but Stannis doesn't really believe in that, and it appears that he is moving away from Mel somwhat after Davos convinced him to spare Edric Storm, and that his previous actions were a mistake. If Stannis saves the realm, as he plans, he will be loved.

With regards to the Blackwater, he didn't really abandon them. When they say the "ghost of Renly" some fled, others surrendered and others retreated with Stannis. There wasn't much else he could do. His fleet was in ruins, his army was in pieces, he was surrounded and outnumbered. He had to flee with those he could, or let everyone be captured or die. He saved those he could.

[FaSome]

I understand your point against Joffrey, but you can rule people who don't like you, so long as they respect you. Everyone respects Stannis, from what we are told, even if most dislike him. The Red God stuff won't help, but Stannis doesn't really believe in that, and it appears that he is moving away from Mel somwhat after Davos convinced him to spare Edric Storm, and that his previous actions were a mistake. If Stannis saves the realm, as he plans, he will be loved.

With regards to the Blackwater, he didn't really abandon them. When they say the "ghost of Renly" some fled, others surrendered and others retreated with Stannis. There wasn't much else he could do. His fleet was in ruins, his army was in pieces, he was surrounded and outnumbered. He had to flee with those he could, or let everyone be captured or die. He saved those he could.

We seem to be at a disagreement about whether or not a kings lords and locals have to actually like their king. Everyone respected Mr. Honorable(Ned), but that didnt stop his head from rolling. Stannis has had the hardest road of all the people trying to win the throne and thats because nobody was willing to help someone they dont like. although i will say that says a lot about his ability to endure and survive, I imagine Stannis would already have the throne if he was even remotely likable.

[Black Wolf Smith]

it (Dany) won't matter to him by then. He will have bent the knee to Jon and taking the black.

[ab aeterno]

We seem to be at a disagreement about whether or not a kings lords and locals have to actually like their king. Everyone respected Mr. Honorable(Ned), but that didnt stop his head from rolling. Stannis has had the hardest road of all the people trying to win the throne and thats because nobody was willing to help someone they dont like. although i will say that says a lot about his ability to endure and survive, I imagine Stannis would already have the throne if he was even remotely likable.

I think I agree with pretty much everything that you're saying. I still disagree over whether or not they have to be liked- no-one likes Stannis but he was/is supported on/around Dragonstone, and probably would have been at Storm's End, had he gotten those lands. No-one, but no-one likes Tywin, but everybody respects Tywin. For my money, most lords would probably prefer King Stannis over King Tywin, but that's besides the point. All I think is that while it helps to be popular, especially among the lords, it isn't essential. I can't imagine anyone particularly liked Aegon the Conqueror, and no-one like Aerys, but it wasn't too far until he started killing the lords of great houses and their heirs and then demanded their children too. Not saying that Stannis is going to do that, but IMO, most lords probably wouldn't mind Stannis, because at least they would know that he wouldn't be scheming or anything.

I definitely think that Stannis has the hardest battle though, out of the main contenders at least. I'm pretty sure Euron will have a more difficult job!