Great blog post on why House Tyrell is actually richer than House Lannister

[Faint]

But even within the context of obtaining food, the resources of the Hightowers far outclass the Tyrells.

[Kings In The North]

Look at it this way: Say you were a trader on the Highgarden Merchantile Exchange, and you were trying two value two companies so you could invest in one of them. Company one was a gold mining company, and company two produced diversified agricultural products. Then factor in that a winter was about to set in that would lasts years- which company would you place a higher value in?

It would have to be the agricultual company, i.e. the Tyrells. As the price of food skyrockets due to scarcity during the winter months years (which comes immedietly following a war that destroyed the agricultural products from your main compeitor, Riverlands, Inc.), the value of gold- being a monetary unit- is debased in comparison to how much food and other agricultural products are worth.

So basically you have a situation where the real cost of food is rising rapidly, while the real value of gold is plummeting. The Tyrells have a near monoloply on a resource that is about to become extremely scarce- much scarcer than gold. They're easily wealthier.

[Faint]

Look, again, House Hightower is not part of House Tyrell, nor is House Redwyne or even House Rowan. They are all individual entities. And even within the context of obtaining food, the Tyrells are not the richest house in the Reach, much less Westeros. They might not even be the second richest house. Most of the agriculture economy probably goes through Oldtown, not Highgarden.

Is this concept really that difficult to understand?

[Independent George]

Put it another way: who is wealthier, Saudi Arabia, or Singapore?

Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil wealth, but no sustainable industries to speak of, and has to import skilled laborers from the Philippines and India to get anything done locally. Singapore is a rock in the middle of the ocean with no natural resources, and has one of the highest per-capita GDPs in the world.

The Lannisters have a lot of gold, but their old-money disdain towards commerce and actual wealth creation means they have very little capital. If the mines run out (and they will eventually), or another vein is discovered elsewhere, their wealth and power becomes greatly diminished.

[Kings In The North]

Look, again, House Hightower is not part of House Tyrell, nor is House Redwyne or even House Rowan.

I never said Hightower was part of House Tyrell. I just placed my imaginary commodity exchange there. I could make it the Riverrun Mercantile Exchange if it makes you feel better. Since you're having trouble grasping simple economics, let me explain with bullet points:

• Winter is Coming (actually already here)
  
• Food is extremely scarce
  
• House Tyrell controls most of Westeros' stores of food to the point of almost having a monopoly, since the Riverlands saw their crops destroyed.
  
• As food becomes more scarce it becomes more expensive- i.e its value increases.
  
• As prices rise for food, the value of a mineral based currency- gold in this case- goes down since it now take more much more gold to purchase food.
  
• Because of this, the Net Worth of House Lannister decreases with the value of gold, while the net worth of House Tyrell increases exponetially as the price of food skyrockets, and they're able to take advatange of a market with enourmous scarcity and almost no competition.
  
• Result: House Tyrell is richer than House Lannister.
  

[Faint]

House Tyrell controls most of Westeros' stores of food to the point of almost having a monopoly, since the Riverlands saw their crops destroyed.

This is a false assumption. House Tyrell doesn't control most of Westeros' stores of food. They do not even control a major port.

If you are going to argue that House Tyrell controls House Hightower because the latter are sworn to the former, then, by that measure, House Baratheon is the richest house in the realm because the Tyrells are sworn to Tommen Baratheon, so he controls most of Westeros' stores of food. It's a silly argument.

[anon76returns]

I would invert Faint's marriage argument and say that the Tyrells ARE the Redwynes (via the marriage with Olenna) and the Hightowers (via Mace's marriage to Alerie), and they now control the lands that used to belong to the Florents. Indeed, outside of the Florents there is very little indication that any of the powerful houses in the Reach (I'll throw in the Tarlys and Rowans here) are anything but faithful to the Tyrells.

[anon76returns]

This is a false assumption. House Tyrell doesn't control most of Westeros' stores of food. They do not even control a major port.

If you are going to argue that House Tyrell controls House Hightower because the latter are sworn to the former, then, by that measure, House Baratheon is the richest house in the realm because the Tyrells are sworn to Tommen Baratheon, so he controls most of Westeros' stores of food. It's a silly argument.

That's a false analogy, as Tyrell's bannermen have shown much greater fidelity than anyone has shown to the crown.

[TalalOfDorne]

Dont the Tyrells have more men to feed? So wouldnt that be a huge part of their spending?

[Faint]

That's a false analogy, as Tyrell's bannermen have shown much greater fidelity than anyone has shown to the crown.

Not at all, some even joined Stannis' cause and from indications in the last Jon Connington chapter, many more are prepared to join Aegon. Not to mention, the Hightowers themselves have largely absented themselves from hostilities so far. The Reach is not a monolithic block nor is any other region (even the Westerlands).

[Beorn Snow]

I disagree wholeheartedly with the article. Food is not power. Money is power.

Power resides where men believe it to be.

[Kings In The North]

If you are going to argue that House Tyrell controls House Hightower because the latter are sworn to the former, then, by that measure, House Baratheon is the richest house in the realm because the Tyrells are sworn to Tommen Baratheon, so he controls most of Westeros' stores of food. It's a silly argument.

Can you read? Why do you keep claiming that I'm saying the Tyrells control House Hightower? And why do you keep on yammering on about controling a major port? It has nothing to do with the price of gold or the price of food. If the Tyrells had no way to export their products it would be a problem, but that's not the case.

And yes, the Tyrells exert direct control, or indirect control over almost all the food in Westeros since crops were burned in the Riverlands, and The Reach is where most of the Westeros' reserves of food are stored.

[Minstral]

Can you read? Why do you keep claiming that I'm saying the Tyrells control House Hightower? And why do you keep on yammering on about controling a major port? It has nothing to do with the price of gold or the price of food. If the Tyrells had no way to export their products it would be a problem, but that's not the case.

And yes, the Tyrells exert direct control, or indirect control over almost all the food in Westeros since crops were burned in the Riverlands, and The Reach is where most of the Westeros' reserves of food are stored.

If you are beginning to argue from this point of view then you are now ceasing to talk about money at all, but the power that House Tyrell has because of what it can offer the realm.

[Blood of the Flagon]

I'm on team tyrell. They are more wealthy. Most food, best horses. An army marches on its stomach.

Some more evidence: Twyin needed them at KL, and they don't appear to have rebuilt their fleet after Victarion and Euron burned it. Compare that to how Manderly and Aurane Waters built fleets at a blistering pace. Also Cersei and Tywin's apparent insecurity in regards to funding the royal wedding, and Tywin being unwilling to use lannister gold.

[Wales338]

The Lannisters are richer. The Tyrell's may be coming into an time where they will being doing better then the Lannisters in the current marker, but overall it would be the Lannisters. They've held the the majority of the gold mines on the contenient for what, like 8000 years? They have more money saved up.

[Weirwoodpecker]

For what it's worth, no matter all of the real assets of House Tyrell related to fertile farmland (that will be particularly valuable if the longest winter in recent memory comes to be....), I think Mace Tyrell's idiocy will prevent them from being major players in the story by the time the full arc is completed. That is, unless he dies soon and more competent leadership takes over. Perhaps Willas is exceptionally smart....I wonder if he will ever become a significant character in the story. Many people want to see more of Garlan....I think that Willas may be the more interesting character, potentially...

[amazingoopah]

Euron and his ironborn disagree with this statement :drunk: ... They are going to make sure the Tyrrells start suffering like the North and Riverlands have been suffering for a while now.

[Ahendrl]

Put it another way: who is wealthier, Saudi Arabia, or Singapore?

Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil wealth, but no sustainable industries to speak of, and has to import skilled laborers from the Philippines and India to get anything done locally. Singapore is a rock in the middle of the ocean with no natural resources, and has one of the highest per-capita GDPs in the world.

The Lannisters have a lot of gold, but their old-money disdain towards commerce and actual wealth creation means they have very little capital. If the mines run out (and they will eventually), or another vein is discovered elsewhere, their wealth and power becomes greatly diminished.

'Old-money disdain towards commerce and actual wealth creation'? They hold Lannisport which is Westeros 3rd largest city, even if Tywin isn't quite found of upjumped merchants it seems that House Lannister has through the course of its history done quite well in attracting wealth creators.

That's a false analogy, as Tyrell's bannermen have shown much greater fidelity than anyone has shown to the crown.

I would invert Faint's marriage argument and say that the Tyrells ARE the Redwynes (via the marriage with Olenna) and the Hightowers (via Mace's marriage to Alerie), and they now control the lands that used to belong to the Florents. Indeed, outside of the Florents there is very little indication that any of the powerful houses in the Reach (I'll throw in the Tarlys and Rowans here) are anything but faithful to the Tyrells.

There are several Tyrell bannerman who sweared to Stannis and some who didn't but didn't raise their arms neither when commanded. Hightower as an example. The Hightowers are married into Tyrells but didn't call their banners when told to and have only now started doing so, with the Ironborn invasion in their own lands.

Btw, on an offtopic issue, the Vale has a fertile vale and it seems LF will get even richer when winter comes. Winter might make them unable to carry the food over the mountains or through the sea but they can load it in ships at Gulltown and carry it up the Trident.

[thenedstark]

As far as "richness" goes, I'll bet that some of the merchant-princes of Essos are pretty rich. I mean, how can Illyrio afford to give away 3 dragon eggs as gifts, unless he has wealth flowing out through his nose???!!!

In any case, power is more useful and House Lannister is and has been far more powerful in Westeros for a while. "Power resides where men believe it resides", as Varys puts it and the Tyrells are contending now for the top position, while the Lannisters are already defending their powerful position.

[Victor227]

Lannisport is much smaller than Oldtown, and the Redwynne fleet is the biggest in Westeros. What are you talking about?

I do think that the Lannisters are the richest individual house easily, on the continent.

They hold Lannisport directly, no lesser branch controls it.

Live there yes, but Casterly Rock controls it.

So between Lannisport revenue, producing goldmines and taxes recieved as lord paramount, they've got more income coming in than any other house by far.

Which to me sours the "Tywin turned Lannister fortunes around" cult worship.

Actually, I'd argue the blog post -explains- just why Tywin was what turned around the Lannister fortunes. If Lannister wealth is based on the largely symbolic and impossible to use on a large scale material that is gold, then it stands to reason that a weak leader would be unable to do a thing with it. And indeed, that's what happened with Tytos. His bannermen plotted against him, they borrowed gold and never returned it, the lion had no teeth, but he had lots of gold. And that draws predators like nothing else.

When you can bid higher than anyone else for anything, people expect you to -pay- more than anyone else, especially when you need what they're selling. What stops this? Respect, fear, strength, the belief that there's real power behind that wealth. That's what Tywin went for, and none of the other living Lannisters can do the same thing. Frankly, the house is in pretty dire straights - even assuming everything ended with the last book. In a generation or two, when Tywin's legacy is forgotten, people are going to be looking at the Lannisters with "what have you done to make us respect you lately?"