JonathanTheBold Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 It's been agile since I made a topic and thought I'd ask this question. Is Ned Stark a McGuffin or is Jon Arryn their both used as catalyst to start the story but don't have any direct impact on the series after game of thrones ( J.A has none) so are they mcguffins if not what or who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dornishman's Wife Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Interesting question. If I understand the trope correctly, the MacGuffin drives the plot through being desperately sought after / defended by both sides (for a living example, Helen of Troy seems a perfect fit). That applies to Ned from his imprisonment to his execution, and through the desire for revenge it also somehow applies to him a bit all the way until the Red Wedding. After that, new plot lines take over, for which he isn't a MacGuffin anymore, but simply dead history.It seems that Tyrion plays a very similar role from his arrest to his reunion with Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanTheBold Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 so would I be going out on a limb by saying Ned Stark is one of the most loved Mcguffins in literature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Lion Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 If I understand the trope correctly, the MacGuffin drives the plot through being desperately sought after / defended by both sides (for a living example, Helen of Troy seems a perfect fit).The critical element you forgot to include is that a MacGuffin is functionally worthless: it doesn't seem to actually do anything; it's only important because everyone wants it. Therefore Ned doesn't qualify as a MacGuffin. He's important either because of who he is or what he knows. Martin has done a decent job of avoiding any real instances of a MacGuffin in the series (so far?), which is a good thing, as MacGuffins are typically nothing more than plot coupons to move the story forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wouldn't the major McGuffin in the series be the Iron Throne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanTheBold Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wouldn't the major McGuffin in the series be the Iron Throne?I was just think that too but the north doesn't want the throne they wanted Ned/Revenge. Also what about Jon Arrny he has no direct impact on the story other than his death is the mystery that sends Ned on his journey but ultimately has no impact on the story later on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Lion Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wouldn't the major McGuffin in the series be the Iron Throne?No, because people don't want the chair itself. No one is trying to steal the IT from KL in the dead of night and whisk it away to the Free Cities for their personal collection of valuable novelties. People are fighting over the monarchy, and the power that comes with it. That's not a MacGuffin by any stretch of the imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Egeman Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 No, because people don't want the chair itself. No one is trying to steal the IT from KL in the dead of night and whisk it away to the Free Cities for their personal collection of valuable novelties. When I think about it, I actually want this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jet199 Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 People don't have to want the McGuffin just for itself. When the KGB try to get a microfilm from James Bond it is not so they can stick it in their microfilm collection it is because it is useful to them but it is still the McGuffin. The fact that the Iron Throne is just a chair which can easily be replaced with another throne without changing it's part in the plot makes it more of a McGuffin not less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy Lion Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 When the KGB try to get a microfilm from James Bond it is not so they can stick it in their microfilm collection it is because it is useful to them but it is still the McGuffin. What's on the microfilm?That's the important question, because if the audience is aware of what the microfilm is going to be used for, then it isn't a MacGuffin. If, on the other hand, we have no idea why the microfilm is important or what it's going to be used for, then it's a MacGuffin. The Iron Throne is not important except in what it represents. The fact that the Iron Throne is just a chair which can easily be replaced with another throne without changing it's part in the plot makes it more of a McGuffin not less.Exactly the opposite, actually. The Iron Throne would be a MacGuffin if it was the throne itself that everyone was fighting over. Imagine if Stannis, Renly, Cersei, Euron, etc were all to say "I don't care who rules the 7 Kingdoms; but that big ugly chair is mine!!!" That would make it a MacGuffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morienthar Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Power and Kingship are the McGuffins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Wouldn't the major McGuffin in the series be the Iron Throne?I'd tend to agree on this; although the story is far too arching for a proper McGuffin to be used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxspecific Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 I am actually not familiar with this funny sounding term, McGuffin. But judging by your definition given to us, I'd say Ned isn't whereas Jon Arryn is. After Ned's death there are still some mysteries to be solved by the characters in which Ned has a direct role. Well mainly R+L=J. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanTheBold Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 I am actually not familiar with this funny sounding term, McGuffin. But judging by your definition given to us, I'd say Ned isn't whereas Jon Arryn is. After Ned's death there are still some mysteries to be solved by the characters in which Ned has a direct role. Well mainly R+L=J.It's a term coined by Alfred Hitchcock and its a device used in to plot to propel the story but is insignificant to the story it's self other than being the thing sought after by the characters in the story and was considered unimportant by him.Then there's the George Lukas school of thought which follows the same principle but he considers it to be the most important part of the story which explain the Star Wars prequels and the kingdom of the crystal skull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 There's no way Ned or Jon Arryn are McGuffin's. The IT doesn't qualify either, not the physical chair, not the power that comes with it. The closest thing we have to a MacGuffin is Tyrion's "wherever whores go". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiasyd Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 From my understanding, a McGuffin is usually a prop, not an active character, particularly a POV like Ned. Classical examples are the holy grail in several stories, excalibur, the one ring, etc.In ASOIAF, as already mentioned, the Iron Throne is a major McGuffin, and I think the wall iself as well. Minor ones could be Robb Stark's crown, Ice (the valyrian sword), Needle, the dragon's eggs in aGOT, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Greg of House House Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 How is the IT a McGuffin? If they stated you need a magical sword to get the IT and people were going after that sword and not actually fighting for the throne (power) it would be a McGuffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanTheBold Posted August 28, 2013 Author Share Posted August 28, 2013 From my understanding, a McGuffin is usually a prop, not an active character, particularly a POV like Ned. Classical examples are the holy grail in several stories, excalibur, the one ring, etc.In ASOIAF, as already mentioned, the Iron Throne is a major McGuffin, and I think the wall iself as well. Minor ones could be Robb Stark's crown, Ice (the valyrian sword), Needle, the dragon's eggs in aGOT, etc.A McGuffin can be a person hell it can even be something abstract like an idea it doesn't always have to be an item Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jossy Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Summer i.e peaceEdit: Though it might not suffice to be interchangable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiasyd Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 A McGuffin can be a person hell it can even be something abstract like an idea it doesn't always have to be an itemSure it can, but a POV is to stretch somewhat, IMHO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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