i kind of feel sympathy for Tywin

[dmo862000]

First off, it is a different time period and while crushing two houses entirely seems excessive, in reality it might have been a necessary evil at the time, hell if the Starks had completely crushed House Bolton, what was it, 300 years prior, things might be a little different. And its not like Tywin is the only one guilty of such things as Robert was ready to have Daenarys killed off and basically wanted to wipe out the whole Targaryen line. It was probably only a matter of time before they were to rise up again and Tywin had to make a point. Anyways the Targaryens were adored for centuries even though their 'uniting the kingdoms' came at the extermination of many of Houses. So wiping out a house doesn't really make Tywin inherently evil.

Bad father? I've seen Robert mentioned as being 'more around' than than Tywin. Yeah how about his forty billion bastards? Bad parenting? Last I checked Tywin didn't have bastards like half the Westerosi lords. Sure he wasn't the perfect father but people need to stop acting like he was the worst out there. He was busy, as hand as Lord of Casterly Rock, sure he could of been been and I would say the only thing I cannot justify whatsoever is his ordering the gangrape of Tyrion's wife. Jaime and Ceri's incest? REALLY? The Targaryens were incestuous for centuries and while they had some bad rulers they also had some great ones. Not condoning it whatsoever but hey, if we are using incest as a bad example of parenting back then lets be fair across the board. Oh yeah and the high and mighty Stannis doesn't exactly deserve husband or father of the year either. Roose Bolton? Hell the Tyrell's were planning on marrying Margary off to a known sadist.

Look Tywin was a jerk, he did some horrible things but most were with reason and he was a product of his environment.He saw what weakness led to and he refused to embrace it.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

He's far from unrepentant Evil to me, he was the man he had to be, clear minded and and decisive. Born to manage fortunes, grown to oversea nations. He was the 'tough calls' guy, the guy that would do whatever he believed must be done in order to ensure his sense of order.

He had a sense of responsibility and duty, however severe, that drove his actions.

He was a portrait of cunning, efficiency, self-control. There's nobody else I'd rather have on my side (though I don't want to know what sort of ruthless schemes he's he'd plot in the name of "Orb's best interest"... I just wouldn't want to be his kid.

He's one of the more intriguing characters in the series, especially on the show.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

And if I were him I'd be dissapointed with my kids too.

[Gneisenau]

Do you think maybe Tywin and the whole Tysha fiasco had the unintended effect of causing Tyrion to engage in lots of whoring ?

[Littlefingers In The Air]

Yeah. And Gregor was just following orders. What a misunderstood guy.

[Blueberry Stark]

Do you think maybe Tywin and the whole Tysha fiasco had the unintended effect of causing Tyrion to engage in lots of whoring ?

Well, Tyrion seems to be a pretty sexual guy, he has lots of money, he's unattractive to most women physically, and he truly believes that the only woman he has loved thus far was a prostitute. The lesson he learned was that only a whore wants him, and then only for money.

Edit to add- I still think Tyrion's responsible for his actions though; he was guilty of raping Tysha, which is inexcusable.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

Do you think maybe Tywin and the whole Tysha fiasco had the unintended effect of causing Tyrion to engage in lots of whoring ?

It'd fuck me up.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

Yeah. And Gregor was just following orders. What a misunderstood guy.

Gregor wasn't 'just following orders'

He's more like a Vietnam/War on Terror (most wars, really... way, way, way to many... all) horror story who uses the military as a free pass to go full-barrel A#1 psycho.

[Blueberry Stark]

Gregor wasn't 'just following orders'

He's more like a Vietnam/War on Terror (most wars, really... way, way, way to many... all) horror story who uses the military as a free pass to go full-barrel A#1 psycho.

I believe he was being sarcastic; as in, Tywin is culpable for Gregor's cruelties since Gregor is the "mad dog" deliberately unleashed by Tywin.

[Orbulas B. Harding]

I believe he was being sarcastic; as in, Tywin is culpable for Gregor's cruelties since Gregor is the "mad dog" deliberately unleashed by Tywin.

fair enough

[Raksha the Demon]

No he was powerhungry and willing to use anything to get it, including his children and willing to sacrifice everything, including Westerosi population. His children are the way they are because of him. Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, all their bad qualities can be traced back to him (doesn't free them from their responsibility, still says something about Tywin). He lacks morals and decency and that's all out of free will. He never had a tough time. Putting legacy as your top priority.. how dickish can you possibly be.

There's nothing wrong with making one's legacy a top, or at least a high, priority; but it really depends on what that legacy is and what you do to accomplish it. Tywin wanted the power and glory of his line to be his legacy, and he didn't care who he bulldozed, brutalized, or murdered to accomplish it. Contrast his trajectory with that of Davos Seaworth, who started out on the lowest rung of the social ladder, as a Fleabottom-born smuggler, who married a carpenter's daughter, and eventually became a knight and the Hand of a would-be king, assuring his surviving children of a better future. Does Davos ever behave unethically? Yes, he smuggles, facilitates the creation of Renly's assassin on Stannis' orders. But he stepped up and protested the burning alive of an innocent boy to Stannis, then sent the boy away and risked incurring Rh'llor-knew-what punishment from his liege-lord. Davos is worth ten of Tywin. He will bequeath a legacy of great nobility of heart to his children and the world, not to mention a significant rise in status and power.

I'm not sure that Cersei would have grown up to be a different, better person had she been born a Tyrell or a Stark (if she did kill Melara when they were so young, or at least stand by and do nothing as Melara drowned, then Cersei might have been genetically flawed, much as I suspect her son Joffrey was); but I believe that Jaime and especially Tyrion certainly would have had different lives and become better men had Tywin not been their father.

[IRON BANK]

Deep down I feel for Tywin, Hold on thats just the tacos I ate for dinner. Tywin is a complete loser, desrved everything he goat and then some. The way he died to me explains the way he lived his life.

[Survivor of Hathsin]

No, Hitler was pitched black.

I do hope you understand that I was being sarcastic.

[The Frosted King]

Tywin to me has always been a fascinating character. Here's a man filled with wisdom and pragmatic thinking, but who is fundamentally incapable of overcoming a few mental blocks. These blocks constrain his otherwise effective thinking, and create his doom.

While a lot of people will call Tywin stupid for starting a war with what literally could have been every single other Kingdom in Westeros...Tywin won. That alone takes brilliance. While Tywin, like any war leader, made some tactical mistakes along the way (deploying forward to attack Roose Bolton's force, placing in command in the hands of Stafford), his diplomatic strategy and basically sound military strategy, along with basic preparedness, paved the way to victory for the Lannisters. On top of this you have his tenure as Hand, in which he was more popular than the King, ruled well, and built a strong reputation, and the basic preparedness of the Westerlands for warfare as opposed to the other regions. Tywin is able to quickly assemble and deploy a force of 35,000 men. Then, later, he raised thousands more. That's called preparedness, and the North and the Riverlands just didn't have it.

I just wanted to address the misconception.

The luck of a Lannister is a real thing, as proven throughout the war.

Did he capitalize on opportunities, sure.

Did Robb finding the goat track beat Balon invading the north, Lysa watching her loved sister burn, Ramsay sacking Winterfell?

Not at all.

And of course Tywin was prepared for war, he started it!

If we're neighbors, you and i, and one day i have a cookout for my friends, and at the midpoint of the day, me n all my friends hop your fence with guns blazing, riddling your house with bullets, taking your family hostage n the process, would you say i was better than you? Of course not.

Nobody would've been able to predict such an action in peace time.

It's not as if war just sprang upon all the houses of Westeros at the same time. The Lannisters were the premeditated aggressors, and everyone else was forced to march to their tune, initially.

It's not surprising that the party that had the most time to plan their strategy won, especially since they basically began the war with a sucker punch. Me pin cushioning your house n family via a bullet based sucker punch doesn't make me greater than you, merely a self serving dick with a lack of scruples.

[Rod123]

Yeah. And Gregor was just following orders. What a misunderstood guy.

Because Tywin was the only one with monsters on his side? no, the difference was that he recognized these monsters, used them and had them on a leash.

[bloodsteel bitterraven]

One word: Tysha

[Stanerys Snow]

Because Tywin was the only one with monsters on his side? no, the difference was that he recognized these monsters, used them and had them on a leash.

I agree with everything other than the "had them on a leash" part. The Lannister men are the most ruthless men in the series when it comes to terrorizing the smallfolk.

[Rod123]

I just wanted to address the misconception.

The luck of a Lannister is a real thing, as proven throughout the war.

Did he capitalize on opportunities, sure.

Did Robb finding the goat track beat Balon invading the north, Lysa watching her loved sister burn, Ramsay sacking Winterfell?

Not at all.

And of course Tywin was prepared for war, he started it!

If we're neighbors, you and i, and one day i have a cookout for my friends, and at the midpoint of the day, me n all my friends hop your fence with guns blazing, riddling your house with bullets, taking your family hostage n the process, would you say i was better than you? Of course not.

Nobody would've been able to predict such an action in peace time.

It's not as if war just sprang upon all the houses of Westeros at the same time. The Lannisters were the premeditated aggressors, and everyone else was forced to march to their tune, initially.

It's not surprising that the party that had the most time to plan their strategy won, especially since they basically began the war with a sucker punch. Me pin cushioning your house n family via a bullet based sucker punch doesn't make me greater than you, merely a self serving dick with a lack of scruples.

The one that had time to prepare was Renly, Tywin wasnt even expecting such a war with the north until Joffrey killed Ned.

And Stannis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Balon. So yeah Balon invaded the North but Stannis invaded Kings Landing, It was the superior diplomacy that won the war for Tywin and Tyrion.

Plus Balon invaded the North because he was scared of Tywin.

[Rod123]

I agree with everything other than the "had them on a leash" part. The Lannister men are the most ruthless men in the series when it comes to terrorizing the smallfolk.

Only because we never heard of the westerlands through a character.

[Gneisenau]

If we're neighbors, you and i, and one day i have a cookout for my friends, and at the midpoint of the day, me n all my friends hop your fence with guns blazing, riddling your house with bullets, taking your family hostage n the process, would you say i was better than you?

Actually, yes you are better than me (assuming you actually succeeded, ie the government didn't send swat teams on you).