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Everything posted by ummester

  1. Yes, so here, where we should have this discussion logically and reasonably and you shy away from it. Why?
  2. How can this be derailing? It's what this thread is for - a discussion on the books vs the show. I think that you and many book fans just don't want to embrace a balanced discussion about what works and fails with both presentations.
  3. Fjordgazer, Yes, the books have more internal logic than the show - I can admit that. They are complicated fantasy novels with a large focus on world and character building, if they didn't have an internal logic, their fans wouldn't like them. Can you admit that AFFC and ADwD, relative to the 1st 3 books, took an unexplainably longer time to be written and contained many subplots and new characters that did not always seem directly related to the narratives set up in the 1st 3 books?
  4. Posters, why cant we play the ball and not the player? Have a debate on the show vs the books without getting upset at each other? Why take it personally? Unless you are GRRM or D&D, that have a vested interest, they are just things made to entertain us that we can discuss the finer points of.
  5. If GRRM concluded the saga with books 4 & 5, written with the complexity and narrative drive of ASoS, then everyone would have been happy. It would have been finished in writing first, keeping all fans of the books pleased and given D&D a clear blueprint to follow for the show. And, 2 more books as plot heavy as ASoS would easily have turned into 4 seasons. I remember thinking the end of ASoS was almost too fast, like the author was staying up all night on crack trying to get it all out :D But it was all there, a complete and detailed narrative that addressed everything it needed to. I suspect that getting signed with HBO caused GRRM to change his plan - I don't suspect anything nefarious, or underhanded - I just suspect GRRM tried to expand because he thought it was the best way to service a TV show. He planted all the trees that he thought would be cool, that will probably never be used, because TV show has to service the actors that service it.
  6. The last 2 books are long and boring, I think Lovely Lyanna is correct in that. I also agree with her that the show is not perfect but it is trying to salvage what it can and tell a faster, more immediate story. In terms of effort put into the whole ASoIaF/GoTs project, if we plotted it over time, I'd say GRRMs has gone from 150% down to 30% and D&Ds has remained a consistent 90%. Who knows how it will all end up - but I'd put money on the ones that keep trying to actually deliver something on schedule.
  7. yea, when they fire suit an actor its ok though, because the flames move right. The dragon scene started like that - it was after, when the body was on the ground, just before the dragons pulled it in two halves. I just watched it again - the body pretty much disappears. It's weird, it just turns into blood - but after, the dragons are eating 2 halves of solid body. The T-rexes in Jurrasic Park pull bodies apart in a more satisfying manner, and that's a kids show :D
  8. Ramsay was very entertaining - am hyped for Bolton's vs Stannis in a way the books never made me. Also, loved the scene with Dany feeding people to her dragons, even if the CG human body looked shoddy. But man, it is so different to the books now - they have totally diverged.
  9. AFFC and ADWD got boring. Season 5 of GoTs seems a bit disjointed. We will not be able to tell, until both show and books have concluded, which show changes work towards better story telling and which work against. You can tell that things in the show are different than the books. You can prefer one or the other, show or books. What you cannot do is assume one is telling a better story, until both have finished telling their stories.
  10. Something cannot be adapted without changing it - all adaptation requires change. You are supposing GRRM made a mistake in trusting D&D - GRRM has never said it, has he? If you cannot see the bias in how your argument is presented - then you have a certain level off delusion that cannot be helped and the whole conversation is mute moot.
  11. That is a valid criticism. There is no validity in the proof of D&D disrespecting GRRM's work, however.
  12. When someone is arguing that their little nephew or whatever can write better then someone else, grammar is not a mute point, it has been made part of that argument. You must be taking the piss, otherwise there really seems to be something wrong with you cognition. The conversation started because you said the show proves that D&D disrespect GRRM's work. It is your opinion that the D&D disrespect GRRM's work - there was no proof that this is the case and there still isn't. To the contrary, there is proof that GRRM accepted D&D to adapt his work - so, at at least one stage, we can assume GRRM thought D&D did respect his work.
  13. Have you seen this Monty Python sketch? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y What you are doing is exactly like this. An argument is not the same as a contradiction :D
  14. Man, you have some kind of crush on Martin';s words, don't you?
  15. Well, it is just opinion, ultimately. And, GRRM is not even close to Shakespeare, as a comparison, he is closer to Rowling. I am arguing against your POV, that the book is so perfect and the show is so flawed - because your POV is fundamentalist and flawed. I'm not really arguing for or against the show or books.
  16. Just because some-one doesn't hate the show, doesn't make them a D&D fanboy :D It doesn't have to be either/or - you can see good and bad points in both.
  17. HBO likely own the rights to profit from the world of Game of Thrones. Of course Martin can write what he wants - HBO just gets to profit from it all now. Do you think if someone put 'Official A Song of Ice and Fire' stamp on a Tyrion doll it would mean more to the average consumer than an 'Official Game of Thrones' stamp. Game of Thrones has become the franchise that is worth something, not ASoIaF. Yes, I know an opinion is just an opinion and no, there is no quantifiable way to prove Shakespeare is better than Rowling - there is only opinion. The only thing quantifiable is financial worth and I think it is unarguable that Game of Thrones the franchise is worth more than Martin's books will ever be in that sense.
  18. You think your opinion that the books are far superior to the show is based in some kind of logic or is somehow factual - it isn't, it is just your opinion. There is no quantifiable way to prove if the books or show are better and thinking there is is flawed. Seems to be some kind of self control issues then, if you cant resist watching something you hate, or know is flawed. Martin sold the rights to the televised version of his world to HBO - it's not Martin's world now, it's HBOs. Martin created it, HBO owns it and can profit from it. Thinking it's still Martins world is your first logical mistake.
  19. Again, you are confusing your opinion with reason and logic. You didn't answer - why do you still bother watching the show? If you know it's so flawed, what is the point? You could ask me why I bother posting to you as a counterpoint - because I know this conversation is deeply flawed. My answer would be that in hope, however misguided, that you understand something. With me and you that could work - but that will never work with you and the show - so why bother watching?
  20. I'm not blind to the stupidity of the show - the show has some poor elements, as do the books. Neither is perfect. Trying to pass an opinion as a fact is what makes you close minded, pretending that your opinion means anything to anyone but you is close minded. Serious question StepStark - why do you even watch the show?
  21. Is he a bit better in grammar and reason than you, because that would help :D
  22. Everything you have posted there is opinion - that you post it as some kind of fact proves you are close minded. You seriously don't get it - I can't help you if you don't reason like a grown up should :D
  23. Well, you might have to choose between an ending you consider un-salvageable and no ending at all. Also, any foundation the show has comes from the books. Season 1 is very similar to book 1. And, as mentioned above, GRRM is accountable for choosing D&D to adapt his books. It's something I really don't understand about people who have given up on the show - why bother watching? Wait for the next book, if it ever gets finished - because the show will likely tarnish your enjoyment one way or the other. I think a true book fan wouldn't even bother with the show - they would just view it as a curio after they have finished the book series.
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