ummester

You think your opinion that the books are far superior to the show is based in some kind of logic or is somehow factual - it isn't, it is just your opinion. There is no quantifiable way to prove if the books or show are better and thinking there is is flawed. Seems to be some kind of self control issues then, if you cant resist watching something you hate, or know is flawed. Martin sold the rights to the televised version of his world to HBO - it's not Martin's world now, it's HBOs. Martin created it, HBO owns it and can profit from it. Thinking it's still Martins world is your first logical mistake.

Again, you are confusing your opinion with reason and logic. You didn't answer - why do you still bother watching the show? If you know it's so flawed, what is the point? You could ask me why I bother posting to you as a counterpoint - because I know this conversation is deeply flawed. My answer would be that in hope, however misguided, that you understand something. With me and you that could work - but that will never work with you and the show - so why bother watching?

DUP.

I'm not blind to the stupidity of the show - the show has some poor elements, as do the books. Neither is perfect. Trying to pass an opinion as a fact is what makes you close minded, pretending that your opinion means anything to anyone but you is close minded. Serious question StepStark - why do you even watch the show?

Is he a bit better in grammar and reason than you, because that would help :D

Everything you have posted there is opinion - that you post it as some kind of fact proves you are close minded. You seriously don't get it - I can't help you if you don't reason like a grown up should :D

Well, you might have to choose between an ending you consider un-salvageable and no ending at all. Also, any foundation the show has comes from the books. Season 1 is very similar to book 1. And, as mentioned above, GRRM is accountable for choosing D&D to adapt his books. It's something I really don't understand about people who have given up on the show - why bother watching? Wait for the next book, if it ever gets finished - because the show will likely tarnish your enjoyment one way or the other. I think a true book fan wouldn't even bother with the show - they would just view it as a curio after they have finished the book series.

GRRM approved D&D making the show from his books - so ultimately GRRM is to blame if the show is shit, because of his bad choice. It's unavoidable that GRRM has the lions share of accountability for the show being made, GRRM could have said no at the start and stopped it all. I can see good and bad things about the books and show. I can see that both maintain the potential to end well, though I can also see the chances of the books ending is less than the chances of the show ending. Deciding something cant end well before it has even ended is closed minded. Prejudgment is close mindedness. So you are ultimately more close minded for being a fanboy of one and a hater of the other. I don't hate the books, I just think they are no better than the show - there is a big difference between that and your bias.

You are extremely closed minded, aren't you? Perhaps the books will end brilliantly and the show will end shit, but perhaps the show will end great and the books will end shit. Most likely the show will end as originally planned by GRRM and the books wont end at all. But I am open to all possibility. If D&D truly sucked at writing, GoTs wouldn't be worth the money it is as a franchise. I have some friends who have only watched the show, never read the books, and they still think it is great - can't wait to find out what happens. I'm starting to regret reading the books before the show has finished now.

No - I think that D&D entirely respect the first 3 novels and reasonably respect the 2nd 2, with concerns over how they would play on tele, so late in the story development. They may have, like some of us here, not have thought that fetching a block was too different to fetching a sword because the inference is the same. They may think that fetching a sword makes more immediate sense for a TV audience than a block and meant no disrespect to the source in changing it. Have you considered the opposite, that GRRM has become less interested in his own world since handing some of the reigns over to HBO and D&D are trying to hold the story together, best as they know how, whilst GRRM doesn't really care if it falls apart now?

It doesn't prove disrespect - you can't prove an emotional motivator without proof of intent, as emotional motivators are not factual elements. If D&D are on record as saying, 'we disrespect GRRMs writing and think we can do better' then it is proven, otherwise it is impossible to prove. You can't prove a murder was not manslaughter without proof that there was an intent to kill the victim, can you? Why do you suppose an emotional argument suddenly carries more weight when arguing aspects of an adaptation.

Coz they are book nerds/purists. I was discussing this with a friend recently. Generally, when people read a book first, than a cinematic version will never be as good - because it cannot live up to the power of your imagination. If you watch the show first, you can understand why certain concessions were made, because your imagination has already be tuned to the imagination of the director with the visual presentation. A book creates a personal bond with a reader that a show cannot compete with, which is all well and good - but I consider that failing to understand exactly what is happening and reason outside of your emotional bond is fairly narrow minded.

You raise a good point - I read the books after season 4 and, before doing so, only really had an issue with 1 scene from the show being bad. Now, after reading the books, I am more nitpicky with this season. But, this doesn't mean I prefer the books - just that noting the differences allows me to see the flaws in both. I wish someone would take the better bits form the show and books and make a better overall version now.

I have seen them all in quick succession also and think the quality is kind of comparable - but I'd still rate them 1 - 7 (most boring) 2 - 8 (ok, but let down by a stupid Disney facial design on Drogon) 3 - 9 (best overall quality of an episode to me, so it seems there is agreement here) 4 - 8 (ok, but the rubber snake looked really bad, and the sand snakes felt cheesy)

There were a couple of penises in this episode, for all those that worry the nudity is biased.

Exactly - what it clearly shows is that LF doesn't really give a shit about Sansa - definitely not the same kind of shit she seems to think he gives. Either LF has no idea about Ramsay and is risking Sansa on an unknown, or LF does know some of Ramsay's behavioural traits and is risking Sansa regardless - either way, LF doesn't really care about Sansa's safety and this is the important thing. I think that LF is ultimately a mentor character for Sansa, as Ned was for all the kids, as Mormont was for Jon, as the Hound was for Arya - that is LFs main purpose in the overall plot, to be a captor, mentor and ultimately enemy of Sansa, so that she can learn how bad her particular giant is and slay it. I think that both the book and show will end up at this resolution, they are just taking different paths to get there. I don't think we can judge whether GRRM of D&D provide a better overall telling of the story until the end.

Barristan was kind of at retirement age, at least he went out with a bang, unlike becoming a meandering bureaucrat like he did in the books :)

Didn't the actor who plays the High Sparrow die during filming? It might have had to be butchered and seem so quick because they had to speed things up around the scenes that were complete.

I thought the show had dropped the ball on Mel interacting with Jon, until her final words and then I thought, yea, they got it, they just presented it entirely differently. Good they put this scene in the same episode as the backstory in Winterfell crypts, so viewers can start tying it together. Daddy Stannis was cool, big sympathy build up - I think that means he will die soon :D The snake Bron skewered looked like rubber crap and killed my SOD. The Sand Snakes were also very crappy but, as mentioned earlier, they were kind of crappy in the books also. Seems everything about Dorne is a bit sucky but the rest is pretty good.

Yes, so from Jon's POV burning is cruel, from Rooses POV flaying is not in the Bolton's political best interests (I never got the vibe Roose thought it was extreme, just that he thought it could upset the Northerners, which he didn't want to do because there were more of them). What about LFs POV? Varys says LF is a person who views a whore as a series of profitable holes? People are a commodity to him. Do you think LF really cares if someone is decapitated, burnt or flayed? Why would LF care about that aspect of Ramsay?

Skinning alive, burning alive.. I guess flaying might hurt for longer. The tickler did that rat torture thing to hundreds of people, Arya left Sandor to die, probably slowly and definitely in pain. Flaying may carry a bad rep because it looks more gruesome, but it seems to me that on A Game of Thrones, if you look at it all without picking a side, its just one of many ways to inflict some kind of cruelty or kill people.

Roose is worried about how he looks politically, Ramsay isn't. Funny, they have the only true father/son dynamic left in the show, the rest are all dead and shit. Perhaps Jamie will step up and be a good dad to his incestuous spawn? The Starks decapitate, the Lannisters backstab, Stannis' witch burns - seriously, what makes flaying or penis removal standout bad things among all of this? More importantly, from LF's perspective, why would he care?

There could be a very simple explanation for why LF doesn't know about Ramsay. Flaying, torturing and otherwise mutilating people may seem huge to us, but in GoTs Westeros, it may be business as usual, the kind of news that doesn't matter that much. When LF says he hasn't heard much about Ramsay, he isn't even referencing flaying and stuff, he means he hasn't heard much of Ramsay in political circles. This is because Roose has previously tried to keep Ramsay covered up and is probably still covering up or downplaying some of Ramsay's more aggressive leadership methods for any news that travels outside the North. Roose is the Warden of the North, don't forget - he's the bossman, with the final word on how the North is presented to Westeros.

Well, if that's the case, anything goes, suspension of disbelief doesn't matter and Troll 2 had remarkably good dialogue and acting. Here is a scene from Troll 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyophYBP_w4

9. I think the season is improving as it progresses. I rated them 7,8,9 to express this.