Gaston de Foix

[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1332188' date='Apr 28 2008, 18.05']Oh, I don't know. When someone is already negatively predisposed toward someone else then they will see anything that person does in a more negative light, right? I mean, Catelyn is a great example of this. From the time that she utters those fateful words "it should have been you, Jon" many readers view any- and everything she does as being stupid and a mistake ;) Although I do really like the theory that the Blackfish was just intentionally misleading Jaime and I hope that turns out to be the case I'm not at all sure Martin would go that route. No, I think the differences between Blackfish and Jon may be resolved but I think it would be more from the Blackfish simply changing his opinion of Jon after getting to know him a little better.[/quote] Even if there is such a resolution, it is not likely to come without a cost in terms of distrust of Jon on the Blackfish's part and perhaps the Blackfish siding with the Bolton's who he thinks have Arya Stark. Remember the Blackfish is almost certainly going to be looking for Robb Stark's heirs in the North since his loyalty is owed now exclusively to the Direwolf.

[quote name='jipijapa' post='1329624' date='Apr 25 2008, 19.37']Sorry for the tangent, but to add how reek becomes theon again... I remember the black fish telling jaime that Kat never trusted theon or Jon. At the time I thought it was that jon does something that seems like treachery, but now I wonder if reek ends up at the wall (perhaps via stannis) and Jon help him out. I also seem to remember that people generally thought the black fish was headed to the wall at the end of feast to check it out.[/quote] I don't buy that, sorry jipijapa. In ASOIAF, chances once missed, rarely come again. Theon had his chance to take the black when Maester Luwin offered it to him, and he refused. As for the Blackfish, while it may be that he doesn't trust Theon Turncloak now (who does?) I think he's most likely to turn up in the North and try to rally lords loyal to Robb, and that's where the distrust he harbours for Jon Snow might be significant.

[quote name='Maia' post='1328508' date='Apr 24 2008, 21.36']Yet Ramsey has the training that allows him to play a lord when it is required. He must have been raised by some low-level nobles or gentry. Certain aspects were - i.e. family members being totally loyal to the ruling lord and never contesting his power, for instance. The very strong kinslaying taboo explains much lower levels of bloodbaths within the noble families (than in RL), but not this single-mindness of the earlier books. Folks rightly pointed out that Harrion is currently a prisoner of the Lannisters. However, as Bolton is himself in league with the Lannisters, I think that he could obtain and use Harrion against Arnulf if the latter really went over to Stannis. On the flip-side, he could ensure that Harrion never returns to the North. And of course Stannis's dubious new religion, being a southener and his alliance with the wildlings would all speak against him where many northern lords are concerned.[/quote] my understanding is that all prisoners belong to the Crown, didn't Jaime say as much in Harrenhall? If that's the attitude the Crown is taking, Harrion might well be kept by Lannisters and used as a bargaining chip with Bolton. However Tarly is marching back to KL and I doubt he's taking Harrion with him, so in theory Bolton could just go to Maidenpool and pick Harrion up. We'll see.

[quote name='Greycox' post='1328316' date='Apr 24 2008, 19.12']Wasn't Harrion, Ser Wylis and the other prisoners of the Battle of the Green Fork "returned" when Roose took Harrenhal from Lorch? If so, then yes - it seems that Harrion is with Roose. I know it was Tyrion's plan to make some prisoner exchanges that involved Harrion, but I think a combination of Tywin's rule and Weasel's soup got in the way.[/quote] my recollection is Harrion left Harrenhall before Bolton took it. On the topic of Harrenhall *and in support of the assassination theory* if the place carries a curse, Roose Bolton was Lord of Harrenhall too- so presumably he's going to come to a sticky end eventually.

[quote name='Maia' post='1328206' date='Apr 24 2008, 16.52']But didn't Ramsey already laid claim to the Hornwood Lordship? Formally, that's where his title could derive from. And of course he may be planning to bum off Roose, but I just don't see Roose as any easy mark. IMHO, he is more intelligent than his son and not deranged. And Reek was Ramsey's childhood companion? Ugh... where did Bolton have him raised again? About Karstarks not liking Boltons and Arnulf throwing them for Stannis... I am not sure. Clearly, the things aren't so fairy-tale-ish anymore and it seems to me that while Arnulf may not go as far as kinslaying, he'd be pleased with anybody who clears his way to lordship(s). And Bolton has Harrion, who is the rightful Lord Karstark and if Arnulf throws in with Stannis, then Harrion could be played against him. OTOH, siding with the Boltons could result in quiet removal of Harrion. Winterfell is all very nice, but it is a burnt-out ruin and trying to claim the North will be difficult. A bird in hand and all that.[/quote] I agree with your point about the Hornwood Lordship- Maia. I think there's a psychological aspect here as well, Ramsay Snow is delighted to become a Lord, and rejoices in the title. I doubt Bolton took much interest in his bastard until his bastard proved himself useful. Were things ever fairytalish in ASOIAF? Are you sure Bolton has Harrion? I thought Harrion's present whereabouts were unknown. I always saw Bran ultimately making peace with Harrion when he comes back to claim Winterfell, it would be a shame if he was just quietly disposed of.

[quote name='Ran' post='1328073' date='Apr 24 2008, 15.27']The point others raised regarding Arnolf possibly playing both sides against the middle, or playing Stanns, are well taken. It's curious to see how a battle transpires, given that Stannis doesn't march on the Dreadfort directly as he at one point seems to have planned before Robb directs him to Deepwood Motte.[/quote] The politics of the North does seem fascinating. A rare slip though, Ran- I think you mean Jon, not Robb here. Robb isn't giving directions to anyone at this point.

[quote name='urizen' post='1327763' date='Apr 24 2008, 09.13']I'd say it would. Your toes are a big part of getting the proper balance as you run. The twisted old Lord seems to Arnolf Karstark, or at least a Karstark, seeing how he has a sunburst as a clasp of his cloak. Since Tommen legitamised Ramsay as a Bolton, Ramsay is first in line as Roose's heir, presumably to all Roose's titles. If anything, it was when Ramsay was a simple Snow he had to be obidient to Roose's wishes. Now that he's the appointed heir he's free to move against Roose. Reading about the terrible shape Theon/Reek is in I doubt he'll be going around assainate anyone, unless of course Ramsay somehow disables Roose and has Theon deliver the coup de grace to escape a kinslaying curse. EDIT: Regarding to the Karstarks playing Stannis, do we know the timeframe? I doubt it, but for all we know this chapter takes place before Stannis establish himself at the Wall and the Karstarks actually leaves Ramsay for the better offer made by Stannis.[/quote] Thanks, those are all excellent points. I would point out that Roose Bolton killed Robb Stark himself when he decided to betray the Starks which is in keeping with the First Men's custom of doing your own killing. I don't know if this applies to a person like Ramsay Snow and whether there are exceptions for kinslaying, but I'm throwing it out there for what it's worth. Roose Bolton seems too cautious a man to be assassinated by his own son.

[quote name='Ran' post='1327761' date='Apr 24 2008, 09.12']So now we know, I suppose, that the twisted old lord is a Karstark thanks to the sunburst on his cloak. Which really makes it seem likely that it's Arnolf, and that he's playing Stannis. ETA: Alternatively, "starburst" is quite deliberate, and it's not the Karstark sunburst that we're seeing. Which means a new Northern house, though, and I'm dubious of that one.[/quote] The only two surviving Karstarks we know of are Arnolf and Harrion. Harrion is described as a fierce young man with a beard, so we can rule him out (although I would love to know where he is..). As for whether it is a starburst or a sunburst, I think Bronn can just tell us that by looking at the chapter. I agree it would seem odd to introduce a new northern house at this point since the North seems pretty well peopled with lords already, but if the word "starburst" is used, I can only imagine it would be used deliberately.

[quote name='Bronn Stone' post='1327660' date='Apr 24 2008, 06.29']I just got a copy in the mail today. Here is my summary: [[/i][/quote] Thanks Bronn, and everyone else who posted chapter summaries on this website as well as the person who posted on Livejournal. I can't wait to read "Reek"'s next chapter. Would losing your toes make it harder to run, does anyone know? The unknown lord- I don't think we know him yet.. he doesn't sound like a Ryswell, Lord Ryswell was Roose Bolton's dead wife's father. I doubt he would wish to associate with the bastard replacement for his grandson Domeric. The fake Arya Stark angle might potentially involve Sansa if she turns up in the North to make good her claim on the North. She can identify Jeyne Poole and Jeyne Poole can identify her. I would love to see Ramsay fall out with his father, but I doubt it will happen. Ramsay has authority in the North only because Roose granted it to him. Besides Roose has a wife, and is the key to the Frey alliance through that. I doubt with the troubles in the North, the Boltons can afford to antagonise Walder Frey or indeed King's Landing which has named Roose Warden of the North. I think it more likely that Ramsay is heading towards Moat Cailin to secure the North in his father's name. As to the question whether he can be continue at archery, I think it depends which fingers he's lost...

Slynt's death means that conceivably the truth of Ned's execution has been lost. Joffrey is dead after all, and Ilyn Payne can neither read, write, nor speak. Neither Varys nor Cersei appear to know in ACOK, in conversation with Tyrion and I believe them. Alternatively, starting from the premise that GRRM must reveal the truth of Ned's death, Littlefinger must be involved, since he is the only major player who has not disclosed his role in the death. I think it strikingly plausible that he did engineer it, but I find it very difficult to imagine the circumstances in which he might reveal this information. Incidentally those who think Jon is becoming a total bad ass as Lord Commander, should consider what Tywin would have done. Tywin would have arrested Janos publicly, had the truth tortured from him in some dungeon, and then had him publicly hanged. Littlefinger would have promised Slynt a pardon, and then hanged him after having the truth. Jon isn't in their league, yet.

[quote name='Ser Scot A Ellison' post='1297326' date='Apr 2 2008, 11.56']I would like to post this clip from the current sample chapter to bolster my argument that Slynt knowing of Tywin's death while it [i]appears[/i] Jon was unaware could be significant: Melisandre is warning Jon of unseen enemies. Now she could simply be attempting to win him to her cause, or she could be giving him a real warning. If it's a real warning Jon should worry about how Slynt was getting important news before the Lord Commander.[/quote] information must come via Ravens right? Neither Clydas, nor Samwell nor Aemon seem the sort to inform Janos Slynt before Jon. I think this might just be something GRRM will catch in editing..