Gaston de Foix

The Visigoths would be the shapes moving in the dark, the ones that Patience was trying to avoid, the ones responsible for the disappearance of the Eldren. Just reread Book 1 and 3. Here's my best guess; now that the Falconer is a viewpoint character (and shaping up to be the antagonist), the series is shaping up to be a showdown between the Falconer at the head of a school of Magi and Locke/Jean (with human kingdoms supporting them). A sort of Bondsmage v. the Therin throne Part II. The Visigoths will be the force that eradicates magic from the world.

Me too. Am I the only one who spots a similarity between the Eldren and the Romans/Builders of the Expanse series?

What is the source for the information that Mathis Rowan remains with a token force besieging Storm's End? I've read various theories on this board that he might turn his cloak and support Aegon, but I've seen nothing in either book or the excerpts from WOW that states he is still at Storm's End.

because Doran (1) sees a weak King, (2) Cersei as Queen Regent, (3) they tried to kill his son (Trystane), (4) he has heard reports that Quentyn is on his way, and (5) he thinks sealing an alliance with the Golden Company and Jon Connington, may smooth the way for Dany, (6) because he can't trust any other envoy, and (7) because Connington would be an idiot to inform King's Landing that Doran is contemplating an alliance when he needs Dorne much more than Dorne needs him. It is though that funny that Doran thought Jon Connington was worth a close look but didn't even think twice about Stannis.

Jurble, where do you get this data point from?

[quote name='Crazydog7' post='1500868' date='Aug 31 2008, 03.28']This sample was very cool. I never thought I would thought I would say this about Theon the whiny little weakling but I hope his sister is able to spring him somehow. Two questions Why is he still alive and why are they letting him go?[/quote] He's alive because, as Roose Bolton observed to Robb Stark in ASOS, he's useful. And they aren't letting him go. They're taking him somewhere.

[quote name='RWHamel' post='1461822' date='Jul 30 2008, 10.43']Also it seems strange that the Umbers are siding with the Boltons, since the Greatjon trusted his Uncles enough that he left them joint castellans of Last Hearth.[/quote] Robb Stark gave Roose Bolton command of half his army. What was your point again ;)

[quote name='Kaede' post='1454199' date='Jul 24 2008, 12.41']Do you think it’s something Martin added to justify a change of direction from what he`d originally planned? He`s probably been doing a lot of that lately, due to the unTimeskip mess. I suspect Cersei`s prophesy was one example that didn`t turn out very well. Still, when I read that line, I thought it fit the way Theon’s mind works. There`s that time he wonders what Eddard would have thought about his “paying the iron price” and then has to remind himself that Eddard meant nothing to him. I also seem to recall a line...first AcoK chapter, maybe...where he says something about how the Starks made sure/saw to it that he never became one of them, which left me thinking he would’ve been willing to do so if he`d thought they wanted him. It`s still a couple weeks before I come back from Japan and get to see my books again, so I`m not sure. At the end of the day, though, what “works” in a story is pretty subjective. That said, I'll start rolling my eyes if Theon decides to run off and die heroically for some Stark. If Martin's not going to let us have Harry Potter-style fanfiction, we shouldn't get Harry Potter-style redemption cliches either. ^_-[/quote] I think it is something that he's put, not necessarily to change a plot point, but to change a character. I never spent much time reading Robert Jordan, but it always seemed all the antagonists in the book acted as they did because they were pissed off at the sheer awesomeness of Rand and couldn't match up or become his lover or what have you. If GRRM does the same with Ned Stark, I'd be very disappointed. Stannis' unwillingness to ally with the Starks has already been attributed in some part to his jealousy of Ned. Not to mention the fact that Ned suffered the most from Balon Grejoy's decision to avenge the war he and Robert waged.

[quote name='Kaede' post='1452176' date='Jul 23 2008, 12.23']What do you want to bet [i]that's [/i]the part that was left out of the sample? -_-;[/quote] I thought this business of Theon wanting to be Eddard's son is kind of a weird point to bring in this far into the series and despite your convincing attempts, Kaege I'm not fully persuaded that it works on a human level.

[quote name='Ibsen's Crawfish' post='1441733' date='Jul 16 2008, 00.21']Hum. That sample is way shorter than a usual chapter, yet the begining and ending do look like the real ones. I wonder what is missing ? Description ? That would make a lot of description. Maybe a flashback/account of the immediate afterfall of Winterfell. Like Theon's arrival to the Dreadfort.[/quote] I think it's just a very short chapter. The next Theon chapter should be more interesting and informative.

[quote name='qbunnie' post='1382938' date='Jun 4 2008, 10.09']Is anybody willing to xerox and mail OR scan and email the Reek chapter? The mag isn't on ebay (at least anymore) and I can't find a full text anywhere online, so this is my only option. Thanks. Also, I'd be willing to make a small (~$5) paypal donation to anybody who helps me out. (Am I allowed to say this? Mods, feel free to edit out this part if you feel its solicitation. It isn't meant to be).[/quote] The chapter is online. I have no idea when it went up, but since it's on amazon's website I assume it is legitimately online.

[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1347838' date='May 8 2008, 21.11']I don't really think Ramsay is planning on using Theon as an assassin either and you're right that he may not be able to even hold a dagger anymore. But, I wonder if he could still draw a bow if he gets a bit healthier and is given the chance? We know he was quite deadly with one at one time. Maybe he could demonstrate his archery skill on Ramsey? I can only hope ;)[/quote] It depends on the fingers. There's an old Indian story about a young, formidable, low-caste archer who was asked to sacrifice his thumb as a gift-offering to his teacher, because the teacher did not wish his low-caste pupil to surpass the prince he was training. Without the thumb the low-caste archer couldn't wield a a bow. I don't see Theon escaping and assassinating Ramsay on his way out though. I don't see him having the courage, and monsters don't die so easily in GRRM's world. Ramsay will be attacked at Deepwood Motte and will most likely flee before Stannis Baratheon, leaving Theon behind. I second your post, hackhamster which I really liked.

[quote name='Ran' post='1337264' date='May 1 2008, 15.28']GRRM's been asked about this in the past. As I recall, his answer was that it was just a book, and the scene was there to show the sort of man Bolton was. If something wasn't useful to him, he'd be willing to destroy it just to deny it to anyone else. Even if it was old, or rare, or valuable.[/quote] That's very helpful, but also a little disappointing. Thanks for clearing it up Ran. I thought it was a fiendishly subtle plot point, but sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[quote name='Daena the Defiant' post='1337213' date='May 1 2008, 14.57']He was just burning all the books in Harrenhal as general measure of making Harhenhal less of an asset to whomever would assume it when he decamped.[/quote] really? Hmm. I don't think Vargo Hoat had a great love of reading myself, but in any event there seems to be no evidence he was burning any other books = just this one. It's possible there was something in this book that would make it valuable though...

[quote name='Jak o the Shadows' post='1337208' date='May 1 2008, 14.55']Wow. Nice pick. I never noticed that. Yeah why burn a book? Maybe it was from the Frey's with details on the red wedding. Maybe they responded to Roose in a book rather than by raven. Damn now I'm going to be thinking of this all day.[/quote] The book sounds quite old though...and why would they respond by "book" when there were a host of Freys with Bolton at Harrenhal?

I was skimming through ACOK when I came across this curious passage which I had hitertho overlooked. "Roose Bolton was seated by the hearth reading from a thick leatherbound book when she entered. "Light some candles," he commanded her as he turned a page. "It grows gloomy in here." She placed the food at his elbow and did as he bid her, filling the room with flickering light and the scent of cloves. Bolton turned a few more pages with his finger, then closed the book and placed it carefully in the fire. He watched the flames consume it, pale eyes shining with reflected light." (ACOK- Arya POV) Any idea on what the book is? It might be something to do with geneaologies and the parentage of Joffrey Baratheon, since Roose later hints to Jaime that he knows the truth, but it might be something else entirely. Either way I doubt the passage is there for no reason whatsoever, and that Roose burns the book is particularly significant since it implies that there is information there that he does not wish to share. At this point he has already decided to sabotage the Stark war effort, by sending Tallheart and Glover to Duskendale. So, any guesses?

[quote name='Shepherd6' post='1334389' date='Apr 29 2008, 23.14']An alliance with the Seastone chair could solidify Roose and Ramsay's power in the North, or just Ramsay's own if he means to take Roose out.[/quote] Ramsay vowed to drive the Greyjoys from the North (according to Roose Bolton in ASOS). Stannis and Ramsay are both striving to win over the northmen to their cause and they can't do that if they ally with the Ironborn who are hated in the North. I also think that this notion that Ramsay will try assassinate Roose is the wildest and craziest sort of speculation. I mean, I've indulged in that sort of speculation myself, but this just doesn't pass the smell test for me. It would be absolutely suicidal for Ramsay, especially when he's just recently been named heir and doesn't automatically command the loyalty of men like Steelshanks Walton.

[quote name='Bane the Other' post='1333567' date='Apr 29 2008, 15.15']I'm curious to know something. During the chapter did "Reek" at any time think back to his past as Theon by name or reference to anything Ironborn or Stark? I'm wondering not because I'm trying to confirm his identity as definitely Theon (I have no doubt it is Theon), but to understand how far gone his mind truly is. Great summaries though, hopefully this is just a part of a larger chapter.[/quote] he thinks of Arya as Arya Underfoot. I would say that his mind is pretty far gone, although he shows an impressive ability to reason (in the circumstances).

[quote name='JoannaL' post='1333251' date='Apr 29 2008, 07.50']Why? I thought his loyalty is to his lord and nephew Edmure, whom he has to free from the Lannisters. No time to go north IMO.[/quote] Well there's an old debate as to whether bannermen owe their loyalty to their immediate lord or their King. I think the Blackfish's primary loyalty despite being a Tully was to Robb and Catelyn, he flew the Direwolf of the Starks at Riverrun in AFFC. He returned to Riverrun with Catelyn as her man, albeit to visit his brother. He campaigned with Robb. In conversation with Jaime Lannister in AFFC he said "My king entrusted his queen to my keeping, and I swore to keep her safe" and refused to exchange Jeyne Westerling for Edmure Tully. His loyalty is to Robb and House Stark now. I think (and mind you this is a subjective view) that when Edmure agreed to surrender Riverrun, the Blackfish saw his loyalty to Edmure as Lord Tully come to an end. Edmure's going to sit out the rest of the series in Casterly Rock until the last Great Council and the Blackfish is going to turn up (this an old trick of Martin's) somewhere we don't expect him, maybe with the Manderlys, maybe with the Mormonts, maybe even with Bronze Yohn Royce.

[quote name='Prince of the North' post='1332188' date='Apr 28 2008, 18.05']Oh, I don't know. When someone is already negatively predisposed toward someone else then they will see anything that person does in a more negative light, right? I mean, Catelyn is a great example of this. From the time that she utters those fateful words "it should have been you, Jon" many readers view any- and everything she does as being stupid and a mistake ;) Although I do really like the theory that the Blackfish was just intentionally misleading Jaime and I hope that turns out to be the case I'm not at all sure Martin would go that route. No, I think the differences between Blackfish and Jon may be resolved but I think it would be more from the Blackfish simply changing his opinion of Jon after getting to know him a little better.[/quote] Even if there is such a resolution, it is not likely to come without a cost in terms of distrust of Jon on the Blackfish's part and perhaps the Blackfish siding with the Bolton's who he thinks have Arya Stark. Remember the Blackfish is almost certainly going to be looking for Robb Stark's heirs in the North since his loyalty is owed now exclusively to the Direwolf.

[quote name='jipijapa' post='1329624' date='Apr 25 2008, 19.37']Sorry for the tangent, but to add how reek becomes theon again... I remember the black fish telling jaime that Kat never trusted theon or Jon. At the time I thought it was that jon does something that seems like treachery, but now I wonder if reek ends up at the wall (perhaps via stannis) and Jon help him out. I also seem to remember that people generally thought the black fish was headed to the wall at the end of feast to check it out.[/quote] I don't buy that, sorry jipijapa. In ASOIAF, chances once missed, rarely come again. Theon had his chance to take the black when Maester Luwin offered it to him, and he refused. As for the Blackfish, while it may be that he doesn't trust Theon Turncloak now (who does?) I think he's most likely to turn up in the North and try to rally lords loyal to Robb, and that's where the distrust he harbours for Jon Snow might be significant.

[quote name='Maia' post='1328508' date='Apr 24 2008, 21.36']Yet Ramsey has the training that allows him to play a lord when it is required. He must have been raised by some low-level nobles or gentry. Certain aspects were - i.e. family members being totally loyal to the ruling lord and never contesting his power, for instance. The very strong kinslaying taboo explains much lower levels of bloodbaths within the noble families (than in RL), but not this single-mindness of the earlier books. Folks rightly pointed out that Harrion is currently a prisoner of the Lannisters. However, as Bolton is himself in league with the Lannisters, I think that he could obtain and use Harrion against Arnulf if the latter really went over to Stannis. On the flip-side, he could ensure that Harrion never returns to the North. And of course Stannis's dubious new religion, being a southener and his alliance with the wildlings would all speak against him where many northern lords are concerned.[/quote] my understanding is that all prisoners belong to the Crown, didn't Jaime say as much in Harrenhall? If that's the attitude the Crown is taking, Harrion might well be kept by Lannisters and used as a bargaining chip with Bolton. However Tarly is marching back to KL and I doubt he's taking Harrion with him, so in theory Bolton could just go to Maidenpool and pick Harrion up. We'll see.

[quote name='Greycox' post='1328316' date='Apr 24 2008, 19.12']Wasn't Harrion, Ser Wylis and the other prisoners of the Battle of the Green Fork "returned" when Roose took Harrenhal from Lorch? If so, then yes - it seems that Harrion is with Roose. I know it was Tyrion's plan to make some prisoner exchanges that involved Harrion, but I think a combination of Tywin's rule and Weasel's soup got in the way.[/quote] my recollection is Harrion left Harrenhall before Bolton took it. On the topic of Harrenhall *and in support of the assassination theory* if the place carries a curse, Roose Bolton was Lord of Harrenhall too- so presumably he's going to come to a sticky end eventually.

[quote name='Maia' post='1328206' date='Apr 24 2008, 16.52']But didn't Ramsey already laid claim to the Hornwood Lordship? Formally, that's where his title could derive from. And of course he may be planning to bum off Roose, but I just don't see Roose as any easy mark. IMHO, he is more intelligent than his son and not deranged. And Reek was Ramsey's childhood companion? Ugh... where did Bolton have him raised again? About Karstarks not liking Boltons and Arnulf throwing them for Stannis... I am not sure. Clearly, the things aren't so fairy-tale-ish anymore and it seems to me that while Arnulf may not go as far as kinslaying, he'd be pleased with anybody who clears his way to lordship(s). And Bolton has Harrion, who is the rightful Lord Karstark and if Arnulf throws in with Stannis, then Harrion could be played against him. OTOH, siding with the Boltons could result in quiet removal of Harrion. Winterfell is all very nice, but it is a burnt-out ruin and trying to claim the North will be difficult. A bird in hand and all that.[/quote] I agree with your point about the Hornwood Lordship- Maia. I think there's a psychological aspect here as well, Ramsay Snow is delighted to become a Lord, and rejoices in the title. I doubt Bolton took much interest in his bastard until his bastard proved himself useful. Were things ever fairytalish in ASOIAF? Are you sure Bolton has Harrion? I thought Harrion's present whereabouts were unknown. I always saw Bran ultimately making peace with Harrion when he comes back to claim Winterfell, it would be a shame if he was just quietly disposed of.

[quote name='Ran' post='1328073' date='Apr 24 2008, 15.27']The point others raised regarding Arnolf possibly playing both sides against the middle, or playing Stanns, are well taken. It's curious to see how a battle transpires, given that Stannis doesn't march on the Dreadfort directly as he at one point seems to have planned before Robb directs him to Deepwood Motte.[/quote] The politics of the North does seem fascinating. A rare slip though, Ran- I think you mean Jon, not Robb here. Robb isn't giving directions to anyone at this point.