lancerman

You don't get to play the I'm being disrespected card when you accuse people who disagree with you of either not reading the books or having less than a fourth grade reading comprehension.

And you're making a disingenuous argument and is not comparable to the situation. You took 3 plots and applied 1 similar action to all 3 of them. The show took one plot and some of the details to them. Book: Jon lets Wildlings occupy the land south of the wall, upsets the NW, gets the Pink Letter, gets stabbed, presumably is revived. Battle at Winterfell imminent. Show: Jon lets the Wildings occupy the land south of the wall, upsets the Night's Watch, gets stabbed, is revived, gets Pink Letter. Battle at Winterfell imminent. Results: Jon lets the Wildlings through, the Pink letter is delivered. He is killed and revived. A Battle at Winterfell is on the horizon. That's very different than taking one action and applying it in 3 separate points. Again by the logic you guys are using, virtually no adaptations could be classified as spoilers for their adaptive material. I'll be fair to you and say there are some storylines that divulge a lot further. Dorne being the biggest and the one instance where you could apply that example. And even then, Dorne is too much of an x factor in the books to know how much significance it has. But for like 99% of the show, it's not even close to the example you used. If someone never read the books and you told them that they left off with, "Jon being stabbed by his brothers in the NW, Euron winning a kingsmoot and claiming he would marry Dany, Tyrion making his way to Mereen and trying to keep the peace in Dany's absence, Dany flying off on Drogon and getting killed surrounded by Dothraki after struggling with Harpies, Arya being blinded and training with the Faceless Men, Theon escaping Winterfell with Ramsay's bride, Ramsay threatening Jon Snow and the NW, Bran training with the 3 eyed Raven", which are all things that happened in the show.... there is literally no chance in hell that person wouldn't consider that a spoiler. Because it is a spoiler. Arguing it isn't because in a massive story that is thousands of pages many details were altered or out of order doesn't make it less of a spoiler.

Well they were never going to get there the exact same way. Even if George released all the books. And quite frankly a part of that lies on George for having his last two books very un television friendly. And it still comes down to the same point. Not every detail of the journey in the Harry Potter movies were the same way. Nobody says you can watch it without spoiling the books for themselves. Nobody says that about the Godfather. Nobody says that about thousand other adaptations with similar issues. There's a reason a small percentage of fans of this series insist the opposite is the case. And it has to do with the situation that was created. If the books came first, we wouldn't have this exercise in people putting their heads in the sand about being spoiled.

Sorry that's like saying you won't be spoiled if you watch the Harry Potter movies. Every adaptation of any work of size beyond a 300 page novel will have some changes. The bulk of the plot points are there. The big ideas and payoffs are there. So they had Jon stabbed before the Pink letter. Doesn't change the fact that the Pink Letter happened and Jon got stabbed. The fact that it was the wildings and not the Jon rebelling against the letter doesn't change that the important content happened. Honest opinion, I think there's a lot of book fans (who don't have a high opinion of the show) who have been terrified that the series they devoted so much time was going to be finished by the show first, and now they feel the need to justify every change as it being too different to count as a spoiler. Here are the facts -Jon got stabbed -Ramsay threatened Jon with the Pink Letter -Reek helped Ramsay's bride escape. (so they used Sansa in place of another character, as long as they get her in position for wherever her Vale plot leads, the overall content is maintained) -Tyrion eventually made it to Mereen while the Harpies revolted -Cersie had her walk and is now awaiting a trial with Undead Gregor -Dany got taken from the pit in Mereen and ran into the Dothraki -Ayra got blinded training with the faceless men. -Euron won the Kingsmoot -Dorne is planning on having some type of war with the Lannisters. -Sam went off to Oldtown -Bran met the three eyed Raven in the tree. Sounds pretty familiar to where the books I read left off. Are some things different? Yeah of course. They always were going to be. The show wasn't going to last 15 years to accommodate the sheer amount of content and detail George put in. It stopped trying once it got past the first and simplest book to adapt (and even their they took a few liberties). Of the major characters, Sansa is the biggest who is out of place, and her plot in the show is still flirting with Baelish and the Vale, so it probably won't be hard to pop her back into position. Then you have Brienne and Jamie and we both know why they aren't in position. And looks like Brienne might be heading to Riverrun anyways. And who knows maybe Jamie has to get the Blackfish to surrender as well. By the end of this most of us are going to have a pretty good idea of where the books are leading and where they will end up. You probably aren't going to get some completely different ending with the majority of characters in different positions. Some will be, because that happens in most adaptations. But George didn't outline the end of his series to D&D for no reason.

It doesn't effect the plot. The timeline has always played fast and loose with converging storylines. LF's scene in the Vale could have easily taken place days/weeks before his scene with Sansa, since his last scene before that was with Cersie in King's Landing many episodes ago. Or a few weeks passed from the arrival of Sansa to when they got Bolton's letter, to when LF's letter arrived to Castle Black. Or he just has a fast horse. Either way it doesn't effect the plot. Unless you're argument is that the show become stretched out an unwatchable so you can cope with LF get traveling from the Vale to the North really fast. Which would actively disrupt the pacing of the show. Which in turn makes no sense.

George wrote a character who was passed off as a Stark daughter being married and raped by Ramsay. George wrote Jon being stabbed. George wrote the set up for a war between Dorne and the Lannisters. Everyone always said it would have similar destinations and the journeys would vary a bit. I wouldn't expect not to be massively spoiled. If you have an ounce of ability to critically think you can tell why something was changed and what it means for the books. It's beyond obvious at this point.

When it's not inconsequential and it's something that has zero effect on the plot.

It has less to do with that and more to do with the fact that it halts plot progression for a need to show realistic travel times. Is the travel time important enough that we need two or three more episodes to have that scene? I don't know. I remember in the first book Catelyn got to KL in like a few chapters when the plot necessitated it.

Sure. But it's one thing to dislike the show on its own merits. Comparing it to the books, especially when we are at a point where people have no idea what's in the books, is not a real legit comparison. Its jusy people who did their head in the sand and justify everything they like as GRRM and then call everything they don't a D&D creation. Then nitpicks that most people just aren't going to care about. Like how fast LF gets around.

Most people liked episode two better than 1.

Doesn't work that way. The majority of people gave it a ten. As of right now 99 people gave it a 10. 67 gave it a 9. 46 gave it 8. Its not a contrarian opinion or people with an alternative motive when that's the consensus opinion. No other score broke 20 yet. The closest is 17 people that voted 1. Everybody else isn't trolling 17 people.

Worse. His entire life was subverted so he could sacrifice himself to hold a door and die for Bran. And to add insult to injury that little prick made him carry him around everywhere. No Stark has deserved to die more than this little punk.

This really needs to be said. Bran and Meera completely fucked up this guys entire life.

Rating means different things to different people. By your criteria I would never give out ten for any show I've ever watched. Some people make ratings far more complicated than it needs to be.

You're right. But I mean more the god like plot mechanism that can wipe away the stories problems. Not the out of nowhere part.

This kind of worries me because it sets up potential deus ex machina shit later on. But we know Hodor was Hodor before Bran actually changed the past. So maybe even if he changes it, it is pre written, and is already manifesting itself.

Well it's that and 99% of the wolves purpose in the books has been the Stark's warging into the wolves, but not knowing it. Bran's the only one who consciously did it. So they kept it for him. For everyone else, it's kind of hard to show.

I mean here's the funny thing. If they didn't say that (sort of like with the Stannis thing) all the unreasonable (read as the people in the rant and rave threads, and likeminded folks) book readers who are upset that Hodor died and what not will scream bloody murder about it and call it fan fiction and tell anyone who will listen that they are butchering the story. Which puts them in a hard place. So they mitigate that by saying, oh well it's what happened in the story we are adapting. And I completely understand why they wouldn't give shit about the feelings of certain people who would use the lack of clarity to bash them and their show. It sucks for the rationale fans who just want to be entertained by both mediums. But I get why they want to cover their own ass.

I read the books. Almost all my friends read the books. Multiple times. Everyone loved this episode. It's only the people who have insane unrealistic expectations that hate this episode. This so far has easily been one of the best episodes of television this year. That's not hyperbole either.

It's possible the children were desperate and never able to control them at all. So the first WW left, built an army, and hundreds of years later returned to serve it's initial purpose.

It's just more that people think place meaning in something that isn't there. It doesn't mean they don't serve a purpose. It just means that they aren't not expendable. It's like the same thing with people taking "a Stark must always be in Winterfell" as an indication of some magic pact or something. Sometimes things are what they are at face value.

5 episodes in and I'm ready to say this show has dramatically rebounded from a weak season 5. It's actually a lot better than season 4 as well. I said last week was the best episode of the season, it just got surpassed. So far we've had 3 stellar episodes.

It's one of those things where years of fan theory have built them up into something bigger than they actually are. Like the people who think Sansa has to die because Lady died.

Oh like 100% percent

No you don't understand. If it's something people like it's the genius of GRRM. If it makes people upset it's a D&D creation.