Deadlines? What Deadlines?

It has already been established that support for Jon is divided among the NW. Thorne's hatred for Jon has been pretty consistent throughout the series. On this: Why did they show up at castle black on the north side of the wall? I'm willing to assume some inlet or natural harbor that made it more logical for the fleet to drop them off north of the wall and then make the walk to Castle black on the north side, as opposed to sailing to East Watch and walking the rest of the way. The "map" is not necessarily cannon in the show and (for all the discussion about it) this is trivial detail that doesn't demand a lot of exposition. The point of that scene was to show how Jon was alienating the watch. That's the meat of the scene. Why let him through only to kill him later? A mutiny is not something that you can just pull off. At the time Jon returns, he probably still has supporters. He is also still the LC after all. However, I think the critical element here is Stannis. I think it's common knowledge that Stannis respects Jon. Stannis is also notoriously inflexible when it comes to dealing with criminals. At the time Jon returns, Stannis is still alive and his army is still intact. How would Stannis react to a mutiny at the wall? What if they do the deed and he decides to punish the Mutineers? What if he wins the battle and and occupies the north? Hard to say, but it might be enough to give the would-be mutineers some pause. All that changes when Mel arrives (by herself) at the wall. Even if they didn't receive word that Stannis' forces had been crushed, anyone eavesdropping on the argument between Davos & Jon and then watching the body language in the following conversation between Davos, Jon & Mel would strongly suspect that Stannis was no longer part of the equation. Why does she return to the wall? Where else is she going to go?

We got a glimpse of an as yet unexplored part of Westerns and they killed a princess. I'd call that consequential. The jail scenes were fun.

"Cheese doodles" is a bit strong. "Pile of shit" is a bit strong.

Their relationship will be, ah, complicated.

I can appreciate valid criticism, but there's no in hell way that episode was a "1". The fact that there are so many "1" votes tells you all you need to know.

Low ratings and too expensive to produce. The original plan was for something like 5 seasons that would ultimately take us to Palestine and feature the beginning of Christianity. They found out late that they had to wrap things up so they compressed the last half of season 2 and finished with the ascension of Augustus.

I must be alone in that I like this season and I liked AFFC/ADWD. Both have their flaws but that's fine. I understand the necessity of making changes in the show, particularly because of the amount of material they have to fit into 10 episodes. Why send Jamie to Dorne? His river lands material is great and, with luck, he'll go there next season. I think the primary thing that sending him to Dorne does is it ties Dorne more closely to the main story. In the books, Dorne is almost a completely separate entity and it's a bit tough to get into it at first. That would be very weird to pull off in the show. Why send him with Bronn? Illn Payne is a mute for one thing. That might make the dialogue scenes a bit lumpy. Also the actor that plays him (Wilco Johnson) is currently battling pancreatic cancer. That might make his schedule a bit tight for filming. Stuff like that. As I've said before, There have been loads of accusations, mostly from book purists that its a poor adaptation because it differs too much from the books or "they aren't supposed to do that" or whatever. There have even been people accusing the show runners of creating fan fiction. IMO, if that's what people really think about book-to-screen adaptations, get ready for a lifetime of disappointment. I for one, like many of the changes. At this point, who knows what's going to happen next?

HBO's "Rome" (one of my favorite shows) had this same feature.One episode they're in Greece, the next they're in Egypt, the next they're back in Rome. They compressed events that happen over the course of years to what seems like days. Just go with it. I'm perfectly willing to assume that it took Mel a day or two of hard riding to get back to the wall.

Oh, fine. Fuck, whatever. He's a hack because after producing fifty episodes of an incredibly complex, multi-threaded story, in one interview he describes an event that happened in season 4 but confused it in an utterly trivial way with a similar event in season 2 and no one caught the flub before it aired. We, as fans of ASOIF should immediately start an online petition to compell Beniof to retract or correct that statement or HBO should fire him from the show immediately. At the very least, they should issue a sincere apology. Or, I can just go get a beer. That would be nice too.

Maybe Beniof just misspoke. Maybe he was confusing one scene with another. Are we really getting uptight about this?

WTF? You watched it? And you missed the people tied to stakes and the guy screaming "Sire, I served you well!" as one of Stannis' men is lighting the pye underneath him?

Stannis is in the north at the end of the last book. Brienne is in the Riverlands. 1. I liked this season. Fans and critics are entitled to their opinions, but they are just that. 2. Yeah, total hacks. https://youtu.be/xcZG6fIUMqg

I understand completely. I was actually partly agreeing with you. "If the pink letter is true." We know (or can be fairly certain) the pink letter is at least a partial fabrication. We suspect that the pink letter is a complete fabrication and possibly not authored by who it claims to be. We can also be fairly certain that Stannis is still alive because of TWOW chapter that was released, unless that chapter takes place before the events at the end of ADWD. Did D&D say "Stannis burns Shireen" or "Shireen gets burned" in the books? That's not completely clear.

Yup. And yup.

1. There is no pink letter in the show. 2. attempting to tease out future plot lines in the books based on events in the show is a waste of time. I can't wait for next season when the material will be almost entirely new (depending on when twow is published).

Maybe he's not dead in the books. Maybe he burns her in the middle of the book and dies at the end. Seriously?

Except she did.

Right, because book Stannis is such a nice guy. The one that killed his brother, burned to death his brother-in-law, and was about to burn to death his nephew (Shireen's playmate) until Davos scuttled those plans.

There's a lot of really tedious chatter on these boards that HBO are doing it wrong because they leave out this or that or they tweak this or that or they include some stuff at the expense of of other stuff or whatever. There are even those that like to accuse the show runners of creating "fan fiction", or tiresome conversations about "He didn't say ghost". or whatever. All I have to say is, if that's the way you demand literary adaptations in cinema or TV are supposed to work, then be prepared for a lifetime of disappointment. As much as I would have like to have seen Jamie's sojourn through the river lands, (the biggest change IMO), I have no problem with the change they made and I understand why they made it. That's just about the biggest change I can think of this season. It might not be their best, but I enjoyed this season. Oh, and Benjen is not coming back. Get over it.

Fantastic episode. "Nice to see the end of the world is working out for someone."

Wun Wun don't need no stinking boat! Brilliant episode.

The scale is insufficient. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Spinal_Tap_-_Up_to_Eleven.jpg

Nice.

Don't have Tyrion become the savior of KL only to have him fall from grace later. Don't have Cat say "We'll kill them all" in season 1 only have her life fall apart and cut her throat later. Don't have Robb kicking southron arse all over the river lands just to kill him off at a wedding. Don't make Oberyn a charismatic, likable kick ass character just to crush his skull. Don't capture Jamie Lannister just to cut him loose. Jesus, it's like unless a characters story is a continuous, uninterrupted, unidirectional progression, there's just "no way".

Huh, ASOIAF TV adaptation that subverts your expectations? Who ever heard of such a thing?