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Jon Ice-Eyes

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  1. Jon Ice-Eyes

    [Spoilers] EP704 Discussion

    Bran's scenes actually were super sad. He gave up his life to become this distant god. He cannot fall in love, or be a warrior, or even remember what it's like to WANT thise things. That is a sacrifice. That is a fucking tragedy. Also I loved him meeting Arya. Bran is now actually no one, in a manner of speaking. She got her identity back, he gave his away. It was poetic and sad.
  2. Jon Ice-Eyes

    [Spoilers] EP704 Discussion

    They took care of the ship problem. Thee was a line of dialogue. Tyrion says to Dany in Dragonstone's war room: "We still have just enough ships to get the Dothraki to the mainland." Done. For the show, this episode is actually very impressive for logistics. The Lannister army is very drawn out, as huge companies of soldiers are when marching. Recall Jaime's brief exchange with Tarly. That's how the Dothraki got the drop on them. If it were a set-piece battle, with tens of thousands of spearmen drawn up in formation several ranks deep, the unarmoured Dothraki would have been slaughtered. Dany actually did EXACTLY what works best: use her superior mobility to hit them unprepared, use the dragon to open up huge holes in their shield wall, the Dothraki charge through, and murder wildly in the chaos. When you have mobility, speed, and air superiority, this is flawless strategy. Step 2: burn the Iron Fleet. It will be a cakewalk. And put some god damned armour on!!
  3. Nothing, really. Prudes will cluck their tongues. In real life, the Catholic Church legitimizes kids born before the wedding.
  4. Jon Ice-Eyes

    [Spoilers] EP703 Discussion

    The writers are just hand-waving away logistics so that they can stack the deck against Dany. She then has to ride her dragons out and burninate lots of people. Fans get huge revenge boners. The end. Pretty much par for the course. I watch for the few great moments, like Lady Tyrell.
  5. That may be my favourite post of all time.
  6. Jon Ice-Eyes

    I would bet money the Shade of the Evening Tree does this...

    I have one quick parallel to draw here. Hope it helps. Hope it isn't old news. Irish mythology (and some others, if you do a little digging) have a parallel of the underworld and underwater. It's not usualy explicit, but very apparent in its way. From Wikipedia, entry 'Fomorians': There's more to this etymology, but many indo-european myths do conflate, to a certain extent, underground and undersea -- as underworld. How? Well, the world-tree has a pool at the bottom. Its roots spread into the underground and into the pool down there. That's where the underworld lies in this cosmology. So a brief mythical support for what we're on about here. The undersea/undersee thing is bang on (that was RR, right?). Going into the weirwoods is a journey underground, under the sea, and, (most importantly) into the underworld -- the realm of death. And why did I use the Fomorians passage to point at it? Thanks for asking, Other Jon. I used it because other posters already established that the ironborn are pretty much an exact homage to the Fomorians. So there's your kraken right there.
  7. Jon Ice-Eyes

    Targaryen Morality

    Yeah, all fair. I get a little riled up when folks start claiming that the king is the king, no matter what. It just isn't accurate. Some Targ boosters like to go down that route. But we are being reasonable here so far. I mean, it's a legitimate topic that gets very little attention. In this universe, Targs are legitimately superior to the other families. Which implies that they are the rightful rulers, like in an objective sense. That shit makes me deeply uncomfortable, because of the elitism it implies. The topic of this thread hints at it: do the Targs, who are literally superior to other humans, deserve to be judged by different morals? The same question could theoretically apply to Starks, and/or Blackwoods, and/or any other family lines that have magical genes. Do they get to have different morals? My ethical sense totally recoils from the idea. When I'm feeling crabby, I get annoyed at how The George isn't tackling these issues head-on. Although there is a case to be made that he is coming at it obliquely. Furthermore, it may be quite central to the climax of this epic; hopefully we've just been working up to it slowly and it will explode in our faces soon. For a good comparison, I go to Dune. The Atreides are a genetically superior line. So are the Harkonnen. (Let's leave aside all the weird gender stuff.) They show you the two ways you can go -- and the Targs go both ways -- crazy and tyrannical, or noble and dutiful. When the culmination of that genetic soup spits out the super-being, Paul Atreides, he comes down on the right side of the coin. But after his coronation as Emperor, he does brutalise quite a lot of people, supposedly for the good of humanity. And that breaks him: the horror of what he did (or what his soldiers did) haunts him, and the terror of how much further it will have to go is too much for him to bear. He can't do it. Even if it's the only way to save humanity from destroying itself. Even Leto II does really awful things. Which all hurt him, but are calculated to save the species. Successfully, in the end. What all that says to me is that these people who were just plain better than the rest of humanity, when it came down to it, chose to do the ethical thing... but only ethical in the end calculation. They were pretty much serving humanity before themselves, even if the story was set up that the service was a utilitarian calculation -- kill or oppress many so that all can survive. I guess I come down where Paul did. He couldn't keep harming people regardless of the end; once he realised that, he saw that he could only be a hindrance to humanity, and so had to disappear. A superior being that is not actively serving the greatest good can only fuck things up. Just so for the Targs.
  8. Jon Ice-Eyes

    Targaryen Morality

    Like I said, when I pointed to the fact that there's no Westerosi Magna Carta which would legally make such an institution. If the lords and lords paramount of the realm are more less unanimously agreeing to follow a new king, then that guy is the new king. You know what you call a guy who calls himself a king while no one obeys him? An idiot. Or a crazy person. In this hypothetical scenario, Aerys would probably be confined to a certain wing of the Red Keep. Which is better than most historical kings got when all their lords teamed up and replaced them. Who or what would make a guy a king if the entire realm doesn't listen to him?
  9. Jon Ice-Eyes

    Targaryen Morality

    Fully deposing a king at a grand council seems to be unprecedented, yeah. I suspect that Rhaegar was planning to set up a regency where Aerys would live out his days comfortably with no real power, and Rhaegar would rule as Regent until he succeeded to the crown after his father's death. Would have been nice. But it does highlight the one crucial aspect of kingship: one is only king as long one's subjects call one 'king.' The grand council seems to be basically a forum where consensus is reached on who the lords are willing to obey. It also looks like (near) unanimous consent is pretty crucial here, as slim majorities manifest instead on the battlefield. Westeros kingship seems to be modeled after England in the late Middle Ages, but without the history of the Magna Carta, which would set out the role of a grand council. But it's way more centralised than the monarchy in France, which had no real power over its dukes for many centuries. It's tough to try and have it both ways.
  10. Jon Ice-Eyes

    Targaryen Morality

    We do have the largely unexplored option of grand councils. One was convened to choose a (Targ) monarch in Bloodraven's time. Implying that such a council can choose a king, rather than defaulting to the next closest kin without question. But most importantly, Rhaegar said that he meant to call a grand council. It is 100% implicit that he was going to unseat or otherwise take effective power away from his father. Both of which undermine the idea of a kingship as sacrosanct as Lord Varys just stated. Maybe like 75% as sacrosanct.
  11. Jon Ice-Eyes

    The Hungry Mouth of Rivers:Manderlys and Merlings

    LOL Euron Also Balor's death explains the God's Eye. It's all right there. Head=moon meteor, and so on and so on. But back to merlings. I was looking for any cool deep ones references in mythology, and got sidetracked.
  12. Jon Ice-Eyes

    The Hungry Mouth of Rivers:Manderlys and Merlings

    I feel like someone must have pointed this out before, but the Ironborn are almost whole cloth ripped off from the Fomorians. From wikipedia: "The Fomorians (Old Irish: Fomoire, Modern Irish: Fomhóraigh) are a supernatural race in Irish mythology. They are often portrayed as hostile and monstrous beings who come from the sea or underground. Later, they were portrayed as giants and sea raiders. They are enemies of Ireland's first settlers and opponents of the Tuatha Dé Danann,[1] the other supernatural race in Irish mythology." So they don't come with the regular settlers. They war with them. They are from under the sea (Drowned God) or else underground (where you mine iron). They are sea raiders. They are chaotic and evil. They are on a god damn island off the west coast of Engl-, erm, Westeros. Oh yeah and they have a king named Balor. Remind you of anyone? So, take Fomorians, add Cthulu, shake (not stir), and you have the Iron Islands. Just sayin.
  13. Yeah, I feel pretty much the same. Some sort of seed or influence being from a space rock can be a good story, but it has to be handled soooo deftly. Which is super possible for someone as deliberate as The George.
  14. Vorlons vs. Shadows? LOL!! Ranking just slightly behind "It was all a dream" and "Post-apocalyptic medieval earth" for weakness.... that would just make my decade. But seriously. I really hope it's not space aliens. I could not tolerate that.
  15. I mean, basically, the GEotD were Tolkien Elves. Like Silmarillion-era Elves. Who also wielded blue, glowing, ice-magic-imbued swords to slay dragons and fire demons. 'S all I'm saying.
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