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Ser Hedge

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Everything posted by Ser Hedge

  1. Add to that Quentyn's death. Drinkwater in Dance already had a garbled recollection of events claiming Dany had "laughed at" Quent's proposal, when she did no such thing. Only Barristan or perhaps Arch Yronwood can provide Dorne with a true account of what happened in Slaver's Bay, I would not trust Drink to not come up with a falsified version to hide his role in going along with the stupid dragon taming attempt. In the sample chapters of Wind Arianne is already speculating if Dany could have instigated Viserys' death (and Arianne seems sour her bethrotal to Vis did not come to fruition, or that that bethrotal was the reason her father refused other good matches)- so there is very clear build-up to a conflict between Arianne and Dany. Add to that the mention of Teora Toland's dreams (told to Arianne) about another Dance of Dragons, and it seems quite reasonable to assume it will be fAegon + Arianne in conflict with Dany. There has to be a point to why Arianne emerged as another POV late in the series. This does not have to preclude other major characters having issues with Dany as well of course, but this one has the most build-up so far.
  2. But Winter is coming, my Lord! The snows will last through the Long Night and so their duct tape with it.
  3. I took that to give us information that Targaryens are susceptible to diseases after all and as explanation why Aemon married a Baratheon rather than a younger sister. Jaeherys' ambivalent reaction to Alysanne's insistence that Daenerys is the heir since she is older when Jaeherys started referring to Aemon as his heir is another interesting set up to the conditions that created the Dance and Jaeherys' views around male primogeniture, while seeking to avoid direct confrontation with Alysanne at the time. Beyond that I'm not sure ... are we supposed to worry 'present day' Dany could have the pale mare? Serms like an unnecessary complication with so much story to go. Maybe it is as you say foreshadowing that Dany faces the Others - but maybe with a more successful outcome. While there are really no good reasons why Targs have to make a come back, should fAegon rule for a while Dany fails to gain the throne, that does seem a sad fate for Targ women. Not unknown in the real world - how many Roman empresses did we have ? - it does seem surprising given how Visenya and Rhaenys were almost co-rulers with Aegon and later Alysanne with Jaeherys until the Great Council ruling completely changed the dynamic.
  4. Yes, in the books it looks like she's arriving at a conscious decision to live up to the words of her house. In the show, oh, you know what, let's just leave that .... In the books a change in direction is clearly signalled. She tried to plant trees, make compromises, locked up her dragons and see where that got her: Narrowly survived an assassination attempt, her husband (whom she married to keep the peace) calling for the Dragon to be slain and now she's wandering around in the wilderness. Well, now she's riding a Dragon and there will be fire and blood! Seems like a logical enough progression.
  5. Great Snakes! Good thing I checked out of Star Wars some time back. Sounds like they don't even need D&D to blow it up any more.
  6. egad, I wake up to find we're still doing algebra here Ok, how about this, GRRM has confirmed J = f(X, L) and the probability that X is R, P(X=R) = 99.99999999999999999999% everybody happy now? Cue someone to point out we don't know there weren't more variables in the J function . The Biologists can take over now.
  7. Maybe Jon's father is the same as Anakin's. That is really going to ruin all the fancy algebra on this thread
  8. You got me there Was there an Irish or Gaelic Scot minor House called Nial(l) who adopted the Norman style de Nial(l) then? House words: "We ain't listening to the likes of yer, so ye can sod off" For a moment I read that without the "never" and went "where were you when I was in University"
  9. Yeah, I suppose it will have to be if we are to get anything similar to the show ending. FDR with his fireside radio chats. JFK charming his way into living rooms with the new TV debates. Bran's face on every Weirwood across Westeros talking to people How can he not become president? Eh, what about those places in Westeros that don't have Weirwoodtvnet you say? They got torched by Dany.
  10. Indeed Benioff was and Paris survives the war! And Achilles survived longer than he should have to be in the wooden horse, but by D&D standards that is not even nitpicking. And yeah, Helen is off to Rome (with Andromache, Briseis and Paris), Menelaus having died in the opening engagement of the war I'm pretty sure that when he was writing the script DB thought Paris was a woman and he thought he was making her a bad a$$ warrior.
  11. Good point. Throw in a real direwolf leading a big pack of wolves ravaging the country-side, with a good number of the surviving smallfolk having decamped to KL and you are not taking about a happy place. Broken men still abound and the BwB are less into helping smallfolk and more into hunting Freys. There is probably more tragedy planned for winter, leaving the region probably quite empty at the start of ADOS. After the Dance, a lot of Cregan's Northmen married women from the Riverlands to re-populate the region. Something like that is probably required again and the future of the region will be shaped by whoever is in a position to re-populate the region. If it's Northmen that can only be because they have left their homeland fleeing from the Others. In terms of the Lords, the Freys are probably exterminated in revenge for the RW. The Lannister-appointees with tenous claims probably will not have a very high chance of survival, in any case a lot of chaos ahead. I agree with you it's going to be less about wills. It should be more about who comes to save them.
  12. Good point, though the technical objection would be "we don't know that for sure". If you want to backfit Bran becoming King of the 7K into the book story, then well, Bran would be Jon's heir to the kingdom Robb established, so if Jon abdicates, we arrive at @Maia's scenario via a different route.
  13. Bearing in mind that Moqorro has fiddled with it, on top of anything Euron might have done to the horn previously (he likely had the Qartheen warlocks with him), I hope something happens. Even if it's just a spectacular misfire!
  14. Good points! Yeah, it's going to be fascinating to see how it plays out in TWOW. The horrors of the show cannot spoil it in any way with so much still in play and with a very different set up, but yeah, I guess we are going to see horrors of another kind as you say.
  15. To be clear, not a Dany troll here. Since this thread is about drawing valid inferences from the smouldering wreckage of the show and applying to the book, we can't completely ignore the turn Dany took, and I thought our discussion was going towards something broader than just her, as you said the whole fire side of things taking root in the 7Ks. Maybe they help with the Battle for the Dawn, maybe they try to help and actually don't contribute meaningfully who tf knows, but after the Long Night, the people being a fickle lot could easily turn on dem 'foreigners'. We saw in FaB the smallfolk in KL got incited to kill the dragons one moment, the next they're celebrating the birth of Rhaena's hatchling. Maybe someone plays the role of Clubfoot Larys Strong (Tyrion?) and spreads rumours about Dany after she's finished Cersei and fAegon. A lot of the villains we know do not have noteriety across the 7K. e.g. Ramsay is local to the North, the Freys are hated in the North and the Riverlands. Euron's atrocities are felt directly in parts of the Reach. There is also the question of perception. The ravaging of the Riverlands was easily one of the worst wide-spread atrocities we have seen, and this was from the same man who sacked KL quite brutally. Oh, and let's not forget the RW. Yet, once Tywin was once again Hand (and grandfather) of the King, the nobles fall in line eventually, and his funeral is well attended etc. Sure the North and the Riverlands (and Dorne and some Stormland lords) still hate him, but some of the Riverlands smallfolk also suffered at the hands of broken Northmen or Karstarks looking for the escaped Jamie (perceived as just 'Northmen') or at the hands of Boltons when Roose was in Harrenhal (again 'Northmen'). The Qohorik sellswords, now reduced to broken rabble including other Lannister hirelings and recruits in the smallfolk's minds are probably not even attributed to Tywin. For all you know, they're blaming Lions, Wolves and foreigners equally. So, Dany does not have to be the worst by any means, she just needs bad PR and I think Arianne is going to get that ball rolling early.
  16. Well it looks like the show is trying to say that once the long night is over, 'public opinion' turns on these fire mages.
  17. Good point. Queen Alysanne's inability to fly over the Wall removes the possibility of Dany or any other dragon rider flying North (while the Wall is still standing) to deal with the Others, assuming they were even inclined to do so (say, to win the North's allegiance). Beric's and LS' resurrections, along with the magic Moqorro is able to perform (and even the magic Dany performed without fully being in control of, when hatching the dragons), while perhaps being able to counter the threat of the Others, could as you say become as much of a threat. This was shown in the show in a colossally clumsy way of Dany going cuckoo with her WMD, while it should be a totally different approach in the books - widespread fire sacrifices maybe? Red priests creating foul sorceries across the realm? (Visenya, Bloodraven and Shiera were all rumoured to have practised sorceries with a very negative connotation laying the groundwork to how Westerosis view this) Perhaps that's why fire magic needs to be removed as well. And was the birth of dragons not credited with stronger magic? For instance the alchemists being able to turn out wildfire much faster? Dany needs to be slain, so Jon can become Drogon's rider in order to kill him? Not saying I like this, just suddenly popped up.
  18. This would be a fantastic way of ending the series for sure: Provides enough information what the surviving characters went on/might have gone on to do, while staying inside a main character's POV. In fact the series would be book-ended by Bran POVs. Bran the boy who fell from a tower and went on to outlive them all. Dare I say it - bittersweet? Clearly, we now know that Dany's arc is a dark one. She embraces fire and blood since trying to compromise politically and planting trees only left her starving in the wastes of Essos again. She had forgotten Hazea's name too, but I'm not sure that means indiscriminate fire and blood, it should be far more nuanced then that. Arianne's musings in the sample TWOW chapters sets up a confrontation between Dany and fAegon/Arianne, so Dance V2 is definitely on the cards, leaving the south devastated and Dany hated in most of Westeros. Not sure if it's obvious that Euron and Cersei form an alliance like on the show. It could be Euron and Dany, though obviously that doesn't end well. Now if, as most of us think, Stannis wins the battle of ice, that leaves us with so many major characters still in play that the ending of the show really does not spoil the books for a very long time, if at all!
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