EggBlue

that's very kind of you! I'm hoping we can settle these... disagreements for a while!

oh . sorry about that. I was distracted by Hot Pie sin thread and missed Jaimie's! yeah . well , respond to each other here!

aaaah ... that is so sweet and tragic. poor Bobby. I'll shed a tear or two for him right after I'm done mourning Janos the Saint.

please, PLEASE, write down this sort of stuff here, and kindly do NOT start new hate threads! to be honest all the threads including "madness of ______" , "_______ is going insane" , "crimes of _______" , "________ worst sins" , "_______ , the _____heart" and so on are getting far too repetitive. they almost always star Starks and Targaryens and put these families versus each other, regardless of the OP. so, I was thinking, why not have a thread for the worst sins of characters and their potential madness(considering all families seem to have the so-called madness genes !) and be done with it once and for all?!

this is so true. in these kinds of shows the way commoners are treated by the writers dictates if the viewers care about them. clearly, these showrunners prefer treating the smallfolk like sheep. for me, this was a bit of a letdown because in the books the first Riverlander supporters of Rhaenyra were surprisingly commoners and lesser nobles, and later on the Shepherd played a huge role in the book. both of these situations could have been more fleshed out in the show....

something I've noticed is that my favorite scenes and my most hated scenes are back to back! pretty funny ,huh? favorites: Aemond claiming Vhaegar Aegon's coronation Storms End scene and Luke's death hate: the fight scene between kids: in the books Aemond's accident truly felt like a mishap, while in the show not so much. Rhaenys's Draon pit scene the manner of Joffrey's death Harwin and Criston's fight and all that it entailed: Criston Cole can imply the princes' bastardy , insult the crown princess, her noble husband and the noble heir to house Strong AND then when Harwin punches him , he is the one who faces consequences?! for god's sake, it's a pretty normal reaction to defend his honor by punching the guy

and to think all those victims are from one episode of one single Targ ....

I definitely wept for Janos the Saint! the thought of what may become of Bowen -right at everything- Marsh sends me into deep sorrow! alas , Westeros is filled with injustice ... worst among them? the noble ser Gregor's death... to think the hero that rid Westeros of the dragonspawn lives through sorcery is most upsetting...

few ?! you could say the line that Ned's not a friend of the king in the world book and Stannis's line is connected. but that sounds a bit of a stretch I guess. while the booming voice is the better argument there. though that too cannot be proof on its own. the booming voice could be a family trait among Starks, it could be the effect of the voice coming out of the helmet or it could be similar to Hoddor's voice when Bran fights the white walkers in his body. personally, I tend to believe Lyanna's the best candidate for the Knight of the Laughing tree, regardless of RLJ. the KOTLT story's star after the crannogman seems to be the Wolf-Maid . she was the one entering the scene defending Howland and she was the first one calling out the squires. a close second, and my favorite, is Howland himself, albeit with a tree Bran lending him strength. that however is more about Bran's constant dream of one day of knighthood and the logistics of jousting for Howland. I think the possibility of Bran giving Lyanna strength and experiencing knighthood through her after she decides to ride the tilts is just as much. Lyanna is also a better candidate than Howland explaining why Meera would think Bran should've heard this story. Benjen as the sidekick of the story who offers putting together and armor could be a third candidate, though I wouldn't bet on that. Ned, Brandon, and Ashara, all of whom appear in the KOTLT story are just side characters in my opinion. and probably have a little story of their own.

to be clear, the desire for peace is not what sounds selfish or delusional to me. but to think in that particular situation it was an option to make peace with Joffrey of all people was indeed delusional. and her proposal lacking any plan beyond saving her daughters sounded selfish which makes it completely understandable for Karstark to call her out on that. at that point Tywin and Jaimie had broken the King's peace, Joffrey supported them and executed Ned, warden of the North, with a very Aerys-like rationale. they had already fought a war and lost even more people. and what was Cat's proposal? let's trade one of the guys who has created this mess with my daughters and go home! if they made peace with Joffrey at that point, they got no justice and could have been easily undermined again considering what Joffrey could pull with their overlord and get away with it, and to think they could trade hostages with Joffrey and swear fealty to another king was something Joffrey would've never allowed which was easy to see. I agree with @Many-Faced Votary that Robb's coronation was a tragedy and doomed him from the beginning. what with his crown, he lost the option of an easy alliance with Stannis or Renly. but I absolutely do not agree that Ellaria's argument is similar to Cat's . simply because the situation differs by a mile. Martells and Sand Snakes are looking for revenge for something that happened 20 years ago and something that happened during a legal trial and the murderers are already dead. moreover, Ellaria's speech happens during a time of peace where Tommen Baratheon is the only king with any power (Stan had fled at that point) , and Tommen Baratheon has not done any injustice, unlike Joff. meanwhile, Northern houses were looking for justice, and that only turned into revenge when Karstark killed the Lannister boys.

honestly, his mother was being unreasonable from the beginning. after Jaimie's capture and Ned's death, before Robb was named king , she thought it was a good idea to trade Jaimie with her daughters although at that point other houses had lost sons and men trying to save their lord who had died regardless! I mean, isn't that seriously delusional and selfish thinking? that must be why Robb stopped listening to her even though he so desperately needed an adult's counsel who was without a doubt on his side.

I agree with this. (though I still wouldn't call it "sin") . I think Robb found himself in an impossible situation in which his only option was to win the war to rescue his sisters and being so young and inexperienced didn't help him at all. none of his advisors seemed to be useful; Cat just wanted her children back which was kind of selfish to abandon the cause when the others had lost their kids in an attempt to rescue her husband and now wanted justice and revenge. and Robb was trying his best to compromise. I guess he thought having Jaimie and keeping him alive equals fair enough treatment from Lannisters. after all, being Ned's son I doubt he could ever bring himself to threaten anyone with torture. though, after they married Sansa to Tyrion (something Robb couldn't pay off with anything to Jaimie), he became completely desperate which led to his famous will.

Robb is sinless.

yes, Qarth was boring in the book. but it made better sense and it involves the House of Undying chapter that we are debating about to this day. I don't remember debating that much about the show's House of Undying scene. and I never as a show fan liked Qarth's sack or that the Dothraki were massacred only to turn up again for the sack and fade away afterward yet again. in fact, the most intriguing part about the show Qarth was Quaithe which I personally naively kept expecting to show up again!

cool! ... what theories?!* *some of us have never experienced a new book release. so please do elaborate!

this I completely agree with. I'd say they butchered Renly in the same manner. they basically turned them from complex characters who happen to be gay and deal with that in their society among other things into silly stereotypes defined by their sexuality, which is irritating. but also kind of ironic, considering the books are older than even me and were written by an old white dude, while the show is a product of the 21st century! oh, I had forgotten that! that was a stupid change. I say that for the whole Qarth storyline .

congrats! that's a close one to Sarella=Shae theory!

I think Stoneheart's fate will be at the hands of Arya or that her story will eventually be linked closely to Arya's since Arya's wolf found her corpse. specifically for Arya to see the very end of a revenge-filled life and give her mother the gift of mercy. that'd be a messed up closure, but a closure Arya needs nonetheless. p.s. when I read the title I thought "we are not done with ______ , the ____heart theories?!" .....

well, to this day, the most disgusting, disturbing, wired, laughable, and fucked up theory I've seen is Sarella=Shae theory; which does not end there! this theory claims that the Red Viper has raped and groomed his own daughter to be a whore to eventually send her to Tywin Lannister when some war someday happens so she can poison Tywin at the end and avenge his sister who was raped and murdered! I mean, COME ON! and a lot of these weird theories are also laughable:

naah... young lord Connington was "dear" to Rhaegar according to Barry. he doesn't have much to worry about, no matter how much Bob makes a fuss over his 2 crushes getting together.

guys I have found a short fanfic where Robert has a crush on Rhaegar before everything happened!!! now, who's for that ship?!

re Dany, being into "bad boys" and wanting to have agency in a relationship aren't incompatible. Daenerys likes strong, powerful guys who take what they want, guys she feels safe with, guys who respect her strength to some extent (Dothraki style ), and, yes, exciting bad boys in general. and for looks, we cannot know anything. Neither Drogo , nor Dario look conventional(though Dany's conventional may differ from common standards since she was raised in places like Tyrosh where blue and purple beards aren't uncommon) . but they are both warriors, tall and masculine. I don't think Euron would charm Dany in a meaningful way either, just as much as Daario has captured her attention. Euron's cruelty is evident from his ship alone, then again, both Daario and Drogo were cruel , selfish bastards too! Euron is charismatic, smart, and can put up a good front if he wants to. while I hope I'm wrong, I don't think it's far-fetched to think Dany and Euron might get together for some time before she realizes what a monstrosity he is. especially considering her dream in Dance. as for Jon, he is pretty superficial in his assessment of women. and he does like the warrior type women and fails to see other types of strength in women (yet) . he also has a biased view towards ladylike women which might come from his view of Cat. when he sees and admires strength in Alys Karstark , he basically mentally notes that she is a not like other girls girl. and it's not like he's to blame; he's a teenager with only Cat as the most prominent female figure in his life. bashing whatever she represents and being attracted to the opposite (Yigrett) isn't all that odd.

that's the general consensus, but Dany and Jon aren't really each other's type! Euron is more Dany's type than Jon for god's sake.... yes! I said that!

one of the best qualities of Oberyn Martell is his loyalty and love for his family. yet, if we were to blame one person for their tragedies, we reach Oberyn who fucks them all up with two simple acts: mocking Baelor Hightower and killing lord Yornwood! see.. After she doesn't marry Baelor, Elia marries Rhaegar , leading to her death. Doran has to promise his son to Yornwoods in exchange for Oberyn's action, destroying his relationship with Mellario. Arianne and Quentyn have a nonexistent relationship because he had to be sent to Yornwood. Arianne's relationship with both Doran and Quentyn is affected because Doran cooked up a super secret plan in order to avenge Elia who wouldn't have been dead if she was married to Baelor Hightower! Arianne might screw Dorne up because she apparently lacks the proper education to rule over Dorne since Doran had prepared her to be Queen of 7k instead of the princess of Dorne. if only our favorite rogue prince was more cautious!

come on! another weird theory I read about is that Aegon IV's last mistress ,Serani , is actually Larra Rogare, his mom! wherever that theory came from , they had taken Aegon's perversion to an absolute extreme