Shienberg

I have to say thanks for the support. But even more so for your motto. My gf sings the night cheese song every time we are buzzed and she needs a late night snack. Awesome reference!

You are welcome. JCRB is freaking ridiculous.

This explains everything. And it's a pathetic attempt to gain pity when the commentator was being figurative, not literal. Take your pity party somewhere else.

See this is one of the spots where the hate gets weird. Nobody wanted to see Arya in a remotely sexual situation. Not the writer, not the producers and (hopefully) no one on this board. So what do the oft hated D&D do? They create a situation that avoids putting Arya in a sexual situation, but still finds a believable way to get her in the room. So if they put characters in sexual situations that people don't like they are terrible hacks and if they deliberately avoid putting a beloved character in a sexual situation then they are terrible hacks. I have never seen so many illogical irrational haters in one place at one time. A few other little things. Varys showing up was sudden but a man with a vast network of spies across two continents could probably find someone to sneak him in the back door. Oberyn established last year that bastards are considered family in Dorne which is different than the rest of the realm. Pay attention Joncon you troll. I agree with the person who said it's not a documentary. We don't need to see exactly how TyrJorio got out of the pit. The things I think were kinda wacky... The odds of Brienne finding Stannis in that battle are pretty thin but it did serve the story and trying to explain it would be a waste of time. I understand that the Dragon's horse bones and the thousands of horse prints will show that something happened there...but to me the most far fetched thing is that someone is going to find that tiny ring in that giant field. And yet, they are avoiding plot holes by setting this up for next season. It's almost like these guys are professional story tellers who know what they are doing. If only this show was an international phenomenon we could judge whether or not they are competent in their craft... oh.... wait...

Is this board the only thing in your life that makes you feel important? Your excessive attention to something you hate is really pathetic.

I'm sure someone has addressed this but I am not sifting through 25 more pages to check. Stannis lost half of his men and all of his horses. Calvary defeats infantry in any war ever. Ramsay did not defeat Stannis. Stannis defeated Stannis when he burned Shireen and lost his men's loyalty. Stannis was a great commander, not a god.

Here here!!! People need to get over themselves. Nobody is perfect but this is actually a pretty competent adaptation of some incredibly unruly source material. They may have made decisions that are different than what you or I would have made. But they are highly paid and qualified professionals. We are a bunch of dipshits with laptops. The two biggest decisions that have pissed people off (Shireen and Sanssa) have had substantial repercussions. The adaptation is done well.

You are a joke and you have way to much time on your hands. I can't imagine having such a pointless life that I would invest so much time in showing up here every week to spew my pointless and overly dramatic assessment of something I claim to hate. Books are different medium than television. Get over it. GOT is no more perfect than any other show and far less flawed than most. It is the third most popular thing on cable besides Walking Dead and Monday night football. It is not dying any time soon despite your childish attempt to be coy by documenting the death of your friend. If you don't like the show then stop watching. I seriously doubt you are a professional writer or producer and I am sure nobody is offering you millions of dollars to produce your perfect vision of an adaptation of such massive work. The show has streamlined some things effectively and made questionable choices in other places. But if you hate it so much, stop trying to get attention and just stop. Every week? Don't you have something better to do? Go away with this nonsense. Seriously.

Wrong. Ned would have stood up for Stannis because Stannis is Robert's rightful heir. Pure and simple. No question.

A few thoughts... Everyone who is asking who the guy in the boat is... I think it's pretty obvious. It's Booker Dewitt. He doesn't row. (hopefully a few of you will get this) The two major winks to the book reading audience... "he always comes back" and the cat that runs by Arya as she tells her story. The purpose of the first seems obvious. I think the purpose of the second is for the writers to tell the audience that they know what the name should be but they changed it for a reason. What could that reason be? I'm hoping (perhaps hopelessly) that that the avoidance of the name "Cat" along with the title of the last episode, "Mother Mercy", may indicate the return of a character we have all been waiting for by the end of the season. This ship has probably sailed but maybe...just maybe... Idea on the White Walker's swimming ability... when the walker that Jon kills walks into the tent the fire does seem to part for him. On re-watch I noticed that he seemed to emanate a mist of cold that pushed the fire away. Perhaps if they entered the water the water would freeze around them making entering the water a bad idea. Why he didn't send all the zombies in remains unclear. Perhaps without flesh they would just sink... but some still have flesh soooo.... "Wun Wun...to the sea!" - Loved this and everything about Wun Wun. Anyone notice the slow, symphonic version of Castamere playing while Cersi sucked water off the floor - brilliant. Moving forward with Arya... I think the desire or the attempt to kill Trant will be what forces her to leave the Faceless Men. Arya would want to kill Trant. No one would not. Everyone has the right to spend their time as they please but why waste your time with something you claim to hate. To paraphrase Henry Rollins... when you hate something you give it to much of yourself. Don't hate it just leave it alone. It's like if someone wants to hand you a giant pile of crap... you don't have to take it. The books are great. The show is great too. They are different mediums and the stories must be told in different ways. The writers have made some questionable decisions (too much rape...Valyrian stone???) but those are no more questionable than GRRM deciding to over-expand the story and bring in entirely new characters and plotlines. There is no perfect storytelling (Patrick Rothfuss maybe...) but we are in a great time for entertainment. It would be nice if folks could just relax and enjoy. This might have been my favorite ep pf the series.

On re watch... I love how Bolton tells Frey that Robb ignored his advice at every turn and should have been less arrogant, right after Frey ignores Boltons warning about the danger of the Blackfish escaping. Bolton is playing at a higher level. I hope this is foreshadowing! I tried to post this earlier but it got lost. I think there is a big problem with Brienne being in KL and Sansa still being there as well. Brienne will want to fulfill the mission of returning Sansa to the North, even if she knows that Caetlyn is dead. This could cause problems...

Ok. Horribly shocked and bummed that they did not end with the Lady Stoneheart scene, but otherwise loved the ep; that is, except the Dany ending which was lame by comparison. I just hope this doesn't mean that they are skipping Lady Stoneheart. And where the fuck is Cold Hands? If Cold hands is Benjen then won't that be important? However, I guess he could just meet up with Bran and crew later... The biggest thing I take away is that I loved the way they have handled Arya's story arch as far as making it something the show watchers cane get behind and believe. The scene with Arya seeing Grey Wind's head on top of Robb's body was, in my opinion, the most powerful of the episode. And then, when they first have her actually kill someone on purpose it's these Frey assholes making jokes about murdering her brother. After everything she has seen and been through and after everything the audience has been through, not only do we accept such a young girl killing in cold blood but we root for her because shit, somebody's gotta get some righteous motherfucking Stark vengeance! I miss the weasel soup and the kill to escape from Harrnehal but I have to say I really think they have done a great job setting up where Arya's character is going. And I love that they used the coin dropping trick from the aforementioned escape. I cannot wait for more Arya and the hound next season!

The whole point of Lady Stoneheart is to avenge the Starks and the North in General. Talisia 1)does not exist in the books 2)was married to one stark for five minutes and doesn't know any others 3) Is from Volantis 4) Was disliked by Robb's bannermen. The brotherhood would not know her, she would have no cause for righteous vengeance and no ties to the Jamie and Brienne story. There will be no un-Talisa. Just stop it. Michelle's interview says nothing that indicates she will not be back as Stoneheart. Stoneheart is essential to Stark vengeance... it has to be her. The next episode is called Mysha- which means mother (show Robbs last word). It would make no sense for viewers if Stoneheart appears at the end of next season. In the unsullied minds she would have been rotting for a year. Lady Stoneheart will appear at the end of the next episode.

Talisa as Lady Stoneheart would make zero sense.

I tried to write about some of this earlier but the boards were jammed and it got lost.... Hopefully not this time. A couple of things.... I know there was no establishment of Robb warging, but book readers have always assumed that this is because we don't get Robb POV. That being said, I still though the last shot of Grey Wind's eyes closing could have been Robb seeing Arya. I thought it was a cool idea whoever suggested that Robb's last word could have been Arya.... cool, but it wouldn't have worked.... I have thought for a long time that this season would end with the Lady Stoneheart reveal. When someone mentioned that "Mysha" means mother.... I was sure of it. As a historian I have to chime in on the whole honor and mercy versus betrayal and ruthlessness debate.... STALIN- Stalin betrayed the leaders of his party. Murdered his comrades and his citizens. He put people in labor camps, exiled and wrongfully imprisoned them. He did this on a scale that led to the death of millions. In the process he developed an extremely effective army and a productive economy that produced the T-34 tanks and mobilized the manpower that won WWII and saved the world from fascism. Honor is good but I guess ruthlessness can save the day too. Depends on your view of the so called "greater good". Great episode. Nothing really worth nitpicking unless I am refusing to understand what an adaptation is.

Very spoilery reply from a book reader.... Some explanations. The Starks are not no more. Aside from Robb and Ned all of the Starks remain active in the story. Including undead Catlyen who was revived by Thoros of Mir who is another Red priest similar to Melissandre. ( I guess that the Red God gives his priests one dark power, for Mel its shadow babies and for Thoros he can revive the dead, but I think only one dead at a time since Berric seems to do a trade off with Cat...) Anyway Cat is running around with Thoros (who has been mentioned in the show and will be introduced next year) and the Brotherhood Without Banners who have also been mentioned and will be introduced. Rickon is off in Skagos and Davos is off to retrieve him. Bran is in the North but is learning to travel through the Weirwoods. Littlefinger has revealed his plan to return Sansa from hiding to make her claim as the heir of Winterfell since Arya is MIA and peeps think Bran and Rickon are dead. Arya is training with the faceless men. While she is supposed to forget herself completely there are suggestions that she is retaining pieces of her identity such as hiding needle for later use. My guess with Arya is that her desire to get home and try to find Jon or Sansa while begin her plans for vengance will interrupt her faceless men training. She will learn enough to be a competent assassian but leave early and join up with Nymeria to wreck havoc on Westeros. Jon is mostly dead. And any fan of the Princess Bride knows that mostly dead is partly alive. Like all the Stark kids (except Sansa due to the loss of Lady) Jon is a Warg. The end of Dance with Dragons suggests that Jon will live inside ghost while he heals or is frozen for revival. Tyrion is in Mereen (I think, I cant ever keep all the Essos cities straight) with Ser Jorah and Barristan. I believe he will reveal himself to Barristan and assisit with the defense plans for the impending attack. Dany is in a bit of a pickle now but I think the show now more than anything has hinted that her eventual path to Westeros will be bringing her to the Wall and Jon Snow who, by the time she gets there, will ber revealed as Azor Ahai. Jon and Dany will fall in love and Jons Targ identity will be revealed and then one of them will die and the other will rule alone ad George gives us all one last 'fuck you, with love'! Anyway my point is that he spreads the story out rediculously far but there are clear signs that he is pulling it all back together. Dont give up.

Allright... So I got through ten pages and just wanted to put down my thoughts before I forget everything I wanted to say. Some of this has been mentioned by others... I am pretty sure it is through Sansa's story in the books that we learn that since the Starks worship the old gods and the Tully's worship the seven the Stark children worship the old gods and the new. While some patriarchs might force the children to take only the fathers religion, Ned was definately the kinda guy who would want the kids to respect their mothers faith as well. We don't ever get to hear Robb's internal monolouge but it is not unreasonable to imagine that he leans more to the seven... This "gigantic mistake" is not necessarily such a big deal... Speaking of Gods.. Peter Dinklage is a freaking GOD! He owns the screen. If he wasn't a small person he would already be established as a Robert DeNiro/Gary Oldman calibre actor. This series will win him many more awards. Yes I was initially disappointed with the HOTU scene however I do agree with people who acknowledge that it would be too spoilery or take too much to explain. The Red Wedding will be one of the most shocking things to ever happen on tv when it happens so it would be a really bad idea to start showing those cards. And of course the tv only crew don't know who Rheagar and Elia are so that vision would make no sense. They will need to explain who Elia is eventually though or else they take a lot of oomph out of the battle between the Red Viper and the Mountain. All that being siad the two simple changes they could have made... A blue rose at the wall would have been a nice foreshadow and would not be too confusing. Pyat Pree could have had a simple bit of dialouge... something like " I am keeping you here to save you... if you leave you will face three betrayals...". Still for the limits and differences of the televsion medium, it was a good scene. In the "previously on..." segment before the show aires Robb tells Roose that any Ironborn who surrender will be spared and allowed to return home. So it seems obvious that Dagmer and co. knocked Theon out to turn him over and buy their freedom. Why couldn't they just have a little close up on Bran as he leaves Winterfell saying it's not dead, "just broken, like me". I was really hoping to hear this line. They are making Shae love Tyrion WAYYYY too much. It's gonna be hard to believe that she betrays him and bangs his Dad and even harder to believe that he is going to strangle her. And there is no way they can change these parts of Tyrions story. I leave the second season a bit frustrated with Arya's story. For many of us it is one of the favorites. I enjoyed the Arya Tywin stuff just because those two actors make those scenes soo great. However so many of Arya's iconic moments were changed or eliminated. There will be no "is there gold in the village" killing of the tickler. There was no weasal soup, no leeches and they skipped over Arya's first real intentionall hands on cold blooded kill (stableboy not withstanding). This is huge for her arc. Another concern- Nobody knows that Bran and Rickon are "dead". I remember Arya overhears this at some point while in Harranhal. More importantly Robb and Cat need to know because, it would have been better motivation for Cat releasing Jaime and Robb needs to name Jon the heir of Winterfell before he dies. Jon turning down Stannis's offer to name him lord of Winterfell and release him from the NW is important to Jon's character and his eventual "doom" or what have you. And again, maybe I am giving too much credit to the "previoiusly on" segment but in that they add a little more reminder explanation that Qhorin wants Jon to kill him and be a spy. I think it could have been handled a bit better but the tv audience will figure it out. I love the show and I love the books. They are seperate things. Some things that can be told in written form do not translate to good television. To be a %100 book purists is irrational and suggests that you may not entirely understand the nuanced differences between the two mediums. I do not agree with every change but I think the show creators are doing a remarkable job in adapting source material that is just massive in depth and scope. I applaud them and look forward to next season.

Because Asha sounds too much like Osha. Same reason they called Robert Aryn Robin. Too many Robbs and Roberts. Easy to know the difference if you are reading. Hard to keep track of on tv.

a. he doesn't trust her. he makes her taste his food. he just doesn't know who she is. b. because he will kill qhorin. c. because he will have turned his cloak under qhorin's orders. d. with fire. e. yup. 1 ship would do it. Jorah cam back from trying to find a ship. f. not going to valeria, passing near it. g. nope. he was captured. h. she stated very clearly that she loves her children. she has no choice. i. He was sent by tyrion to negotiate for the release of jaime. varys would know where Cat was. j. the dogs lost the scent. As to your initial question. See a through j.

absolutely agree!

My $0.02 I definately fall in the best episode yet this season camp. I have concerns, but I enjoy the show greatly. Obviously there are more deviations from the book this season compared to last. I respect the right/need to make some changes for television. My only complaint is that they are jarring. they take me out of the story for a moment when I think... "wait, that didn't happen". That said I think there are some situations where people take it too far, nitpicking details like, "they were on horsees", and other situations were I agree things are unnecessary like the Jon chases Ygritte scene. I love love love this show, same with the books, but they are two different things. For me it's just important that they get the major touchstones right. They haven't failed yet, but there are things I am concerned about. Weasel soup is the nearest of those concerns on the horizon. But more about the epi... I agree with those who say that Theon is much more sympathetic in the show than the books. In the books I didn't truly start to like him until he lept from the walls of Winterfell. In the show you see the characters conflicted loyalties much more clearly. Maybe its the actor but regardless I look forward to Theon scenes while in the book his chapters where not the ones I was overjoyed about. similar with Sansa. For some reason I find her much more interesting in the show. Her silent, patient struggle is much more compelling on the screen than on the page.... wait, sidetrack... the epi... The capture of Winterfell was well done all around. No problem with Roderick tacking the many hacked beheading. Some things just have to be condensed. And yes the look on Theon's face after was priceless. Man poor Rickon is gonna be one messed up little shit by the time Davos gets to him. The things this kid has seen and been through. I still laugh thinking about him cracking nuts last week. Loved the riot scene although it didn't seem as desperate or chaotic as in the books. Im not sure what I liked better, the Hounds rescue of Sansa or Tyrion chewing out Joff. Joff is certainly a viscious idiot! I become more and more ok with the Roose/Tywin switch everytime Arya and Tywin are on screen. some say "oh, he would never talk to a cupbearer....". Since we don't get a Tywin pov Im not sure anyone truly has that much insight to his personality. I do however hate the way Littlefinger is frickin everywhere. If he's traveling all across Westeros how the hell is he arranging Sansa's escape with Dontos. Which by the way is sorely missing. There has been no establishment of a Godswood in KL, nor of Sansa praying. Why intro Dontos in the first ep and then throw him in a closet til next year....? Anyway, way to much Littlefinger and not enough Varys, in my opinion. Yes the nurse girl form Volantis will be Jeyne Westerling. Im suprised Robb didn't say; "hello Mother, nice to see you, and by the way who is that giant woman dressed like a knight who seems to be following you?" You would think it would spark some curiosity. I got giddy as a schoolgirl when Roose suggested sending his bastard to take back Winterfell! My only problem with Arya's kill #2 is that her attitude, the way she commanded Jaqen and her carelessness in stealing the note in the first place, do not seem like qualities that would make him want to send her off to the faceless men for training. On screen though, the way they did the scene, I thought it made good tv. One last gripe. In that big open northern waste, Qhorin had left Jon like two minutes before Ygritte ran off. They would still be like right there when he was chasing her. Ok 2 last gripes. Why hasn't the open ing map taken us beyond the wall to the fist of the first men? Seems silly not to. As we approach the end of the season I am looking forward to the arrival of Arstan Whitebeard and Strong Belwas. But I am wondering how the will desguise Ser Barristan for the tv audience since obviously we will be able to see him. Great epi, great show!

Regarding Meera and Jojen Reed... I think they have to be there. It's possible (although unlikely) that they could leave Bran and Rickon's fate hanging at the end of the season for the TV audience. One thing I know for sure as that they need to have Cat think the boys are dead when she sends Jaime off with Brienne. But I could totally see them letting the viewers think that the boys were dead until next year. But, what is more likely is that they will emerge from the crypt at Winterfell in the very last scene of the season. The thing is though... Leuwin has to die! Keeping him alive would be too big of a change in my opinion. And if I remember correctly it's Leuwins idea to split the boys up... Im thinking that they (Bran, Rickon, Hodor and Osha) will all leave Winterfell together. Later, as they travel (early next season) they will meet the Reeds along the way and then take Leuwin's advice to split up. It would be really cool if we could see the mute kid in the tree who later tells Manderly about the boys and their wolves. The actress who plays Osha is good, but not good enough to drastically change the story for her. I hope D&D agree.

Loved the epi but I am VERY disappointed about the Tickler. They didn't really play up the "is there gold in the village" line in the previous episode so it was not likely that a TV audience would remember it two seasons from now (if they break up Storm then season 3 will probably end with the Red Wedding). But Arya killing the Tickler and shouting about gold in the village was one of my fave moments from the books. Totally bummed. The Tickler is also supposed to be part of her prayer and of course that's out the window now. I'm starting to get worried a bit about Arya's story line. If the Northmen don't take Harranhall then how the hell do we get weasel soup... especially since the name weasal would make no sense at this point??? I agreee with those who said Stannis really started to feel like Stannis in this episode. For some reason Rickon bashing those nuts really cracked me up.... no pun intended. I'm wondering if Jon's story might dip into book 3 since it seems like he might have to do away with Quorin sooner rather than later. Pyat Pree was good. Looking forward to the house of the Undying. Overall it's a great adaptation, I just hope they don't continue to mess with Arya's story too much.

You are doing yourself a great disservice. Read the books

It's prolly already been pointed out but your whole argument is nullified by the fact that Aemon is a brother of the nights watch. That duty pre-empts his duty to take the throne. That duty (to become king) was one of the many claims he must forsake when he became a member of the watch. Ned technically had a choice. Aemon did not. Stannis does not. With Stannis, he just IS King. There is no claiming and no choice. It's just a fact.