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Black Crow

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  1. Misericorde blades are very strong, sometimes triangular in section like early bayonets, and are designed to be forced through mail or the gaps between steel plates. The flat disk at the top of the pommel is there to help this thrust or even to aid it being hammered in. Traditionally the eye slit in a close-helm was regarded as a good place to drive it in
  2. Yes I noticed that and it's another reason why I doubted whether this can be regarded as canon. Its also worth remembering after all the arguments and posturing over the old watchtower, that GRRM has never said anything about Lord Eddard finding anything or anyone inside. The fight and the discovery of a dying Lyanna are clearly associated in the dream, but as GRRM was at pains to point out, dreams are not literal
  3. Of course it could also have been a tactful euphimism for Bob being hung over after celebrating
  4. Agreed. Bob's wounds are never described but there's a fair difference between say [purely for the sake of argument] a broken arm and a broken leg. The latter may not confine him to bed, but he's not going to be very mobile. On the other hand while a broken arm might stop him fighting it won't stop him riding. A head wound - quite likely given his horned helmet - would likewise slow him down without absolutely incapacitating him. There are a lot of scenarios which could see Lord Eddard taking on the immediate pursuit while Bob follows at a more sedate pace.
  5. Yes indeedee, right through the exchange they explicitly declared their loyalty to King Aerys, not to Prince Rhaegar
  6. [a] Bob was nowhere near Ned plainly invited a surrender, but being Ronin they refused
  7. OK... finally got around to looking at the video, which seems a touch dodgy to me in terms of canon, but be that as it may, it looks to me as Ser Arthur was struck down by someone - not necessarily Lord Eddard - and that while he was lying wounded, Ned finished him off with a misericorde dagger Misericorde (weapon) - Wikipedia What I'd be more wary of is the statement that having polished off Ser Arthur, Lord Eddard found something in the tower...
  8. Dreams, as GRRM pointed out shouldn't necessarily be taken literally, especially when they are fever dreams. This wasn't a recollection calmly related by Lord Eddard when he was awake, sober and alert. Independently we're told that he and Trouserless Bob had quarrelled after the Sack of King's Landing but were reconciled by the shared loss after Lyanna's death. If this new narrative is to be regarded as canon [is it?], then there are two interpretations to be made. Either, Lord Eddard swept along the South accepting the submissions of the last Lords, killed the three Ronin at the Tower, came back for the Coronation then went south again to drop off the sword and pick up the baby. OR... Very soon after King's Landing was stormed and Bob was crowned almost at once, before Ned went south to mop up the hold-outs. The latter seems likelier and is supported both by the Lords' submissions and by the Ronin referring to Bob as the usurper, implying that he was actually occupying the throne.
  9. The precise timing isn't specified in the book, but this seems an entirely reasonable scenario
  10. As I argued in that thread, if we're dealing with "free spirits" then the corporeal bodies are irrelevant. They are not to be confused with wights.
  11. Heresy 233 A walk on the White Sid[h]e is worth another look Heresy 233 A Walk on the White Sid[h]e - A Dance with Dragons - A Forum of Ice and Fire - A Song of Ice and Fire & Game of Thrones (westeros.org)
  12. Ah, no you're missing the point... We know that a lot of the detail in that outline has changed, over the years, but what about the overall story and where it's going? All authors find that characters have a mind of their own
  13. Just to throw a spanner into the discussion... GRRM had been writing this story for 20 years when A Dance of Dragons was published [and Heresy began] and he's now been at it for 30 years. He's not dead so we can reasonably assume that the story has evolved and even changed in the process.
  14. Probably... GRRM has warned before about obsessing about dates and mileages. In the context he was talking about certain living [or at least very recently dead] characters moving from A to B within a certain time frame, but he also spoken about how this is equally true of the distant past. I think that we can safely assume that the sequence of events before the Conquest is reliable but that the datesare mince
  15. In reflecting I'm referencing how our perceptions of what the story is about have evolved over the last 10 years. R+L=J always has been contentious of course, but what I'm interested in here is its place in the story. Whether its true or not, does the story which GRRM is telling revolve around it... or is GRRM writing a very different story
  16. Welcome to Heresy 239, the latest episode of the long-running thread taking a slantwise look at the Song of Ice and Fire. Today [October 28 2021] we’re just one month shy of ten years since the Heresy thread began on 28 November 2011, with The Wall, The Watch, and a Heresy. I’ll repost the original as Heresy 240 on the actual anniversary, but as we approach it, I’d like to thank all of you for contributing to what’s been a remarkable series, but otherwise ask that you hold off on the self-congratulations until we actually get there. When The Wall, the Watch and a Heresy was posted we were only a few months on from the first season of the Mummers version, which at that time promised to be pretty faithful to the books and were of course just a few months from publication of A Dance with Dragons. It was all new and exciting. Ten years on I think its fair to say we’re more than frustrated by the wait for Winds of Winter and more than disappointed by the Mummers Farce, but where are we really and how far have we come in our understanding of the story so far and where its going. I’m confident that we’ve moved a long way from the orthodoxy that Jon Snow is the lost Targaryen heir and that once he draws the sword from the stone and climbs on the back of a dragon all will be well with the world. We’ve gone through a lot of theories anent individuals and incidents, but where are we in global terms? Here’s that old leaked synopsis again. It has obviously been changed [a lot] by what has actually been written and what has actually happened so far to the named characters, but what about the overall story as envisaged by GRRM? Dear Ralph, Here are the first thirteen chapters (170 pages) of the high fantasy novel I promised you, which I'm calling 'A Game of Thrones.' When completed, this will be the first volume in what I see as an epic trilogy with the overall title, 'A Song of Ice and Fire.' As you know, I don't outline my novels. I find that if I know exactly where a book is going, I lose all interest in writing it. I do, however, have some strong notions as to the overall structure of the story I'm telling, and the eventual fate of many of the principle characters in the drama. Roughly speaking, there are three major conflicts set in motion in the chapters enclosed. These will form the major plot threads of the trilogy, [unclear] each other in what should be a complex but exciting (I hope [unclear] tapestry. Each of the [unclear] presents a major threat [unclear] of my imaginary realm, the Seven Kingdoms, and to the live [unclear] principal characters. The first threat grows from the emnity between the great houses of Lannister and Stark as it plays out in a cycle of plot, counterplot, ambition, murder, and revenge, with the iron throne of the Seven Kingdoms as the ultimate prize. This will form the backbone of the first volume of the trilogy, A Game of Thrones. While the lion of Lannister and the direwolf of Stark snarl and scrap, however, a second and greater threat takes shape across the narrow sea, where the Dothraki horselords mass their barbarian hordes for a great invasion of the Seven Kingdoms, led by the fierce and beautiful Daenerys Stormborn, the last of the Targaryen dragonlords. The Dothraki invasion will be the central story of my second volume, A Dance with Dragons. The greatest danger of all, however, comes from the north, from the icy wastes beyond the Wall, where half-forgotten demons out of legend, the inhuman others, raise cold legions of the undead and the neverborn and prepare to ride down on the winds of winter to extinguish everything that we would call "life." The only thing that stands between the Seven Kingdoms and an endless night is the Wall, and a handful of men in black called the Night's Watch. Their story will be [sic] heart of my third volume, The Winds of Winter. The final battle will also draw together characters and plot threads left from the first two books and resolve all in one huge climax. The thirteen chapters on hand should give you a notion as to my narrative strategy. All three books will feature a complex mosaic of intercutting points-of-view among various of my large and diverse cast of players. The cast will not always remain the same. Old characters will die, and new ones will be introduced. Some of the fatalities will include sympathetic viewpoint characters. I want the reader to feel that no one is ever completely safe, not even the characters who seem to be the heroes. The suspense always ratchets up a notch when you know that any character can die at any time. Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand. This is going to be (I hope) quite an epic. Epic in its scale, epic in its action, and epic in its length. I see all three volumes as big books, running about 700 to 800 manuscript pages, so things are just barely getting underway in the thirteen chapters I've sent you. I have quite a clear notion of how the story is going to unfold in the first volume, A Game of Thrones. Things will get a lot worse for the poor Starks before they get better, I'm afraid. Lord Eddard Stark and his wife Catelyn Tully are both doomed, and will perish at the hands of their enemies. Ned will discover what happened to his friend Jon Arryn, [unclear] can act on his knowledge [unclear] will have an unfortunate accident, and the throne will [unclear] to [unclear] and brutal [unclear] Joffrey [unclear] still a minor. Joffrey will not be sympathetic and Ned [what appears to say] will be accused of treason, but before he is taken he will help his wife and his daughter Arya escape back to Winterfell. Each of the contending families will learn it has a member of dubious loyalty in its midst. Sansa Stark, wed to Joffrey Baratheon, will bear him a son, the heir to the throne, and when the crunch comes she will choose her husband and child over her parents and siblings, a choice she will later bitterly rue. Tyrion Lannister, meanwhile, will befriend both Sansa and her sister Arya, while growing more and more disenchanted with his own family. Young Bran will come out of his coma, after a strange prophetic dream, only to discover that he will never walk again. He will turn to magic, at first in the hope of restoring his legs, but later for its own sake. When his father Eddard Stark is executed, Bran will see the shape of doom descending on all of them, but nothing he can say will stop his brother Robb from calling the banners in rebellion. All the north will be inflamed by war. Robb will win several splendid victories, and maim Joffrey Baratheon on the battlefield, but in the end he will not be able to stand against Jaime and Tyrion Lannister and their allies. Robb Stark will die in battle, and Tyrion Lannister will besiege and burn Winterfell. Jon Snow, the bastard, will remain in the far north. He will mature into a ranger of great daring, and ultimately will succeed his uncle as the commander of the Night's Watch. When Winterfell burns, Catelyn Stark will be forced to flee north with her son Bran and her daughter Arya. Wounded by Lannister riders, they will seek refuge at the Wall, but the men of the Night's Watch give up their families when they take the black, and Jon and Benjen will not be able to help, to Jon's anguish. It will lead to a bitter estrangement between Jon and Bran. Arya will be more forgiving ... until she realizes, with terror, that she has fallen in love with Jon, who is not only her half-brother but a man of the Night's Watch, sworn to celibacy. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book. Abandoned by the Night's Watch, Catelyn and her children will find their only hope of safety lies even further north, beyond the Wall, where they fall into the hands of Mance Rayder, the King-beyond-the-Wall, and get a dreadful glimpse of the inhuman others as they attack the wilding encampment. Bran's magic, Arya's sword Needle, and the savagery of their direwolves will help them survive, but their mother Catelyn will die at the hands of the others. Over across the narrow sea, Daenerys Targaryen will discover that her new husband, the Dothraki Khal Drogo, has little interest in invading the Seven Kingdoms, much to her brother's frustration. When Viserys presses his claims past the point of tact or wisdom, Khal Drogo will finally grow annoyed and kill him out of hand, eliminating the Targaryen pretender and leaving Daenerys as the last of her line. Danerys [sic] will bide her time, but she will not forget. When the moment is right, she will kill her husband to avenge her brother, and then flee with a trusted friend into the wilderness beyond Vaes Dothrak. There, hunted by [unclear] of her life, she stumbles on a [something about dragon eggs] a young dragon will give Daenerys [unclear] bend [unclear] to her will. Then she begins to plan for her invasion of the Seven Kingdoms. Tyrion Lannister will continue to travel, to plot, and to play the game of thrones, finally removing his nephew Joffrey in disgust at the boy king's brutality. Jaime Lannister will follow Joffrey on the throne of the Seven Kingdoms, by the simple expedient of killing everyone ahead of him in the line of succession and blaming his brother Tyrion for the murders. Exiled, Tyrion will change sides, making common cause with the surviving Starks to bring his brother down, and falling helplessly in love with Arya Stark while he's at it. His passion is, alas, unreciprocated, but no less intense for that, and it will lead to a deadly rivalry between Tyrion and Jon Snow. But that's the second book ...
  17. GRRM long ago said that the cause is not astronomical/scientific/cosmological
  18. Danaerys the Dragonlord doesn't come into it. The original synopsis linked Jon and Arya although some of us reckoned on Heresy that as written GRRM was going to substitute Sansa for Arya instead as being closer in age. All that the mummers' version has done is confirm this.
  19. Their passion will continue to torment Jon and Arya throughout the trilogy, until the secret of Jon's true parentage is finally revealed in the last book. [GRRM 1993]
  20. Agreed. While death may no longer be what it once was, having died is bound to knock Jon sideways. Now that being said, I have a suspicion as to where this is going. In the book, when Mance Rayder is about to attack Castle Black Jon is called upon to take command, but is reluctant until Aegon Targaryen proclaims "You are a son of Winterfell. It must be you or no-one!" It is such a splendid line I was surprised and puzzled that the mummers didn't use it. Instead, however, we know from the trailer that Sansa is going to succeed in getting herself an army but we've also seen the reservations about her on the one hand and about "Lord Snow" on the other. Therefore I can easily see the line being used by Sansa to rouse Jon and get the army to follow him as a son of Winterfell.
  21. Inevitably we're now into two different texts given that the master one hasn't been completed far less published, but the mummers are aware of the milestones and as I've just said on the main thread I'll be interested to see how long the dam lasts before the milestones are "released" for discussion, given that they are already all over the internet.
  22. I wouldn't necessarily get too excited. There are three possible outcomes. We could learn the truth of R+L=J although I think this unlikely, its not explicit in the book so there would have to be a major change. Secondly we could learn that Jon's father is Ser Arthur Dayne, who appears to feature very prominently in the trailers. Either is possible, but without delving into the relative merits of either it doesn't feel like the right time. Jon is far far away and has a lot of other stuff on his mind, including perhaps a battle for Winterfell as the season finale. On the whole I'm very much more inclined to think that the vision may largely revolve around Meera's father saving Bran's father from Ser Arthur, which would fit well with Bran's current story-line
  23. As I recall, in the last season there was a walk on appearance by Master Benero - as a woman. I suspect that the one in the previews might be called [or at least filling in for] Moqorro
  24. No need to skim; the Heresy OP always includes a link.
  25. Its more a matter of knowing or not knowing the individual personally.
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