boojam

I took it to be that , as in the books, when Jorah is dismissed, Barristan becomes her main advisor, and he's still there by the end of ADwD. Setting up Jorah to frog march Tyrion to Meereen. By the by Barristan saves Dany's life yet again , but I don't know if they are going to use that. (By the by on the show I have not seen one of her Blood Riders with her at all. There were three that seemed to accompany her in Astapor all the time in the books , tho they seem to hang in the background.)

Is that 'hundreds of years' info directly from the books? I can't find it on the Wiki. George finds hyperbole hard to resist, if a dragon lived for thousands of years even Martin physics on Martin World would make the damn thing bigger than the planet it lived on! I am just guessing , but George probably has in mind that there is some asymptotic size to a dragon , I mean it could be HUGE, but if to big might not even be able to get off the ground. Anyway I point out again, from the evidence GRRM has given us, it's only speculation on how fast free dragons grow. Blue Whales (the largest animal ever to exist on Earth) are almost fully grown at 1.5 years, an astonishing number! Blue Whales can be nearly 100 ft long and weigh 200 tons by 2 years and are fully mature at 5 years. At the rate GRRM is writing these novels these dragons might get very big! ;)

It is a point George has never clarified. I think the only thing we know is , what George has said in the books, they grow fast, I think Jorah says something like that E1 this season. George has said if they are kept in captivity they won't grow much at all and turn out to be useless. Free ranging dragons apparently get as big as one could imagine, but GRRM has not defined 'fast'. Some debate about how big Drogon is at the end of ADWD, he can kill and eat a horse , at the end of another year would that be an elephant or a whale?

Well I just reread the passage, and there is black blood, GRRM makes clear Drogon gets hurt*, then he roasts all his attackers (why they tried that I don't know), Dany has some pretty close moments with Drogon, but she does get the spear out and mysteriously gets him into 'mount' position, GRRM must have been typing fast at that part because some details seem lost. Anyway Drogon takes off and is a away almost no worse for the ware. *But consider later Quentyn Martell attempt to steal Viserion to his everlasting cripy-ness! Any way the guards in the anteroom where Viserion and Rhaegal are captive use when they escape , one would suspect industrial strength cross bows, on them, the quarrels just bounce off. Now one would think you could put more momentum and energy into a quarrel than a spear? So maybe Drogon in the pit encounter was maybe still not mature enough, cause through out the books GRRM makes it clear that a more grown up Drogon would have felt the spear as a chigger bite!

It was pretty clear to me when the pit attendant stabbed Drogon with a spear, fire pouring out, it was more like a nick. Dany pulls the spear out when shes on Drogon.* A lot of argument of just how big Drogon is, George gives a wingspan, but no other dimensions. There have been arguments , round this site, that Drogon is as big as a large horse or as big as and elephant. Anyway GRRM makes it clear that a grown dragon is very hard to kill, tho it can be done. Lot of Dragon lore GRRM has never explicitly explained. One second they seem vulnerable the next second could not kill em with an H bomb. George is just that way. *By the by what was that stupid pit attendant thinking?! "O a big dragon just landing right by me, I'm gonna go stab him!" Well guess they don't hire the smartest pit attendants!

It's straight from the book, well except for a zinger. Missandei has been speaking to Dany and says Valar Morghulis, and Dany replies with the standard response Valar Dohaeris, except Dany says in in the common tongue, or at least George writes it that way. So Dany is asking Missandei what her name is. Missandei says O! Because she realizes Dany is speaking in High Valyrian. (Well one would have suspected that a Valyrian could speak High Valyrian, tho she probably learned Low Valyrian in Braavos first, I don't know she might have learned HV first.) George makes it explicit in the book that Dany and Missandei have a conversation in High Valyrian (not Low Valyrian). It's hard to tell from the passage how much HV is spoken. The show has taken the tact that Dany apparently does not speak Low Valyrian , tho by the visual clues, as several people have pointed out it is evident. We lost a plot element George had used, but seems they will make up for it next week. D and D do some odd things with the prose narrative, but it should work out. The response Dany gives in the show is "All men must serve." "But we are not men." Dave and Dan are channeling Tolkien.

Well one might think there would be a lot of Westerosi who know Dany is legit. If knifes were sent to kill her and her brother for many years then those who sent them would know. Then there is the assertion in the books that there is a silent minority (majority?) who would welcome back a Targ. I have the crazy notion that Varys knows who Dany is and where she is and she important to some mysterious story we know nothing about. Tho I always thought it odd. The seven kingdoms were unified by conquest and force. But apparently there were good Targ rulers so maybe people yearn for that? The big fly in the ointment is this what-ever-the-hell the Winter-Ohters want? GRRM keeps intimating they are going to come on stage in a BIG WAY , while we readers and viewers fiddle-faddle around about the fight for the Iron throne. My impression is fans are only interested in events in Westeros, with a fair following for things in the East. My hunch is that Winds of Winter means what it implies and it's gonna be West and East (and maybe that goofy Red God) vs the Sauron of the North! We shall see.

Why? You mean the 'we are not men' part? It's straight out of Tolkien: Battle of the Pelennor Fields. I loved it, tho not sure D&D were thinking of Tolkien , but it's a good zinger.

But that's , I don't remember the exact words, is exactly from the book.

The funny thing is HBO show-wise, in two more years, is going to , sort of, defacto, arrive at The Mereneese Knot!

That right in show Missandei say's Valar Morghulis, in the book Dany either speaking High Valyrian or translating to common tongue "all men must serve". That the way it is in the show, direct from the book , except for the HV part. But then Dany says "We are not men." I need to make the note that I did not make a mistake, except for Dany's last remark, that is exactly the dialog from the book.

Not that I remember thought Dany would have done it by now , already occurred book-wise. Maybe next episode. (Also Dany's crown is still missing, I don't mean her mother's who her brother sold. Guess we have not had a cermony big enough for her to wear it. She is already being called Queeen, which de-facto she is.)

That was odd, I don't think The Bank of Braavos is mentioned till a couple of books later , is that right? I sure non-readers thought 'Bank of Braavoss?!".

Ok GRRM is not the American Tolkien, but D and D can take a swipe at it. THE Eowyn MOMENT After Dany has acquired Missandei as Her Girl Friday. Right out of the Book: Missandei:"Valar Morghulis" Dany:"All Men Must Serve" not in the book Dany looks at Missandei. Dany:"We are not men." Missandei, mild smile. D and D , that was a good one!

I keep wondering that my self. Seems in the book, maybe?, Sam keep it, or some of it. In the show it's god-knows-where.

Well I am desperately trying to forget the end credits (music)....the episode was fine.

I think they have handled , in this short burst fragmentary story telling style, the Wildings stuff is done well enough. But somewhere the NW, Ghost, 'Fist'... has jumped the tracks, as if they shot a lot of story and it went on the cutting room floor. NW are back in NI next week maybe they will tell that part of the story with coherence?

It reminded me of Ladyhawke (1985), a similar fantasy setting , with a clever story , a good movie. one of the few of it's type. But with that jarring god-awful rock score needs to be redone ruins the atmosphere.

Ok the idea , I thought the idea, of having 20 episodes was to not have to pound 1000 lbs of print prose into a 20 lb teleplay sacks. With too much prose to adapt is it wise to make up story that burns narrative time, unless it really is a change that advances the narrative or fleshes out characters. I thought the whole incident between Brynden and Edmure happened in the book? Whew what an awkward dialog that Clive Russell had to deliver about forgetting he was Brynden! (D and D just do downright goofy things at times.) Hard to leave out Riverrun tho mostly for the introduction of the Tullys. And having started Theon's story it does seem , teleplay wise , useful to the narrative to continue it, tho I have wonder if D and D have imagination to made say 15 more episodes of torture interesting.(I think this is one reason GRRM let Theon's story lapse for almost 2 books! So, my two favorite stories in SoS are Arya and Dany. Arya's story seems to proceed at pace , there was a lot of wandering in circles first few Arya chapters. Some good actors in the Brotherhood , but they must have one season contracts , cause , as I remember they vanish from the narrative, looks like there is going to be some kind of extension , due to Gendry, somehow? I re-read the first few Dany S0S chapters last week , it's mostly exposition. Actually in George's fine story telling manner very interesting conversations that fill in a whole lot of back story, and the 'training' of the Unsullied is the most griping, it's pretty long in the book, and makes the slavers seem even more horrible. But I don't know how you put that into a teleplay. Fireworks next week me thinks. That Moroccan seaport city looks good, but they don't seem to VFX 'dress' the surrounds to GRRM's exotic description, except for the Harpy (love their design) is about the only thing they do. Why does " Bear and the Maiden Fair" occur on the end credits this episode? I thought they would be saving that for a particular event in an episode coming up. O Lord I hated the semi-Rock composition, instruments drowned out the lyrics! This was the wrong wrong wrong take. This song is something The Chieftains (or a similar) band could have hit out of the park. (Horrible, I hated it!) The credit close S2E9 was perfect and unexpected ... alas, alas... Now I guess we get to hear it twice! Damn!

Well I knew that they had only so much time blocked out for each scene and it seemed to go on for about the length that episode could budget. In the book it was kind of engaging, because even in chains Jamie got the best of Brienne for a long time until he realized he could not wear her down and then she rallied and got the best of him ... well Jamie was surprised. (In fact I got the impression even without chains and in the best of condition , in the book, Jamie had unexpectedly met his match.) In the thick of the battle several time Brienne might have killed Jamie, I don't think she wanted that! As I said I didn't think the sword play was lame, but had heard that Gwen has practiced for weeks and she and Nikolaj had rehearsed it for about a week. Like I said I have no real complaints but expected a little more imagination in that scene. In the book it was an important chemistry dynamic between the two. Lord , we have drawings of long sword fighting, but I can never figure out how it really came off.

Yes that's a good. Still if Brienne had of brought Jamie in , in chains, the prisoner of a woman! Well Twyin didn't even show Jamie much affection as an escapee who made his own way back as a free man.

At least the funniest snide-ness.

"Slow", well that's the way SoS seemed to me, tho as I have said I am a sucker for GRRM's story telling ability. Nothing really happens except when we get to Arya's, Jon's and especially Dany's story early on. But I can see as a teleplay ... D and D and Vanessa Taylor are trying hard. Nothing like the first season, but GRRM has not made their job easy. Like I said this season is Back Loaded , tho from what you all have said two more episodes to go and we get a zinger! The last five episodes should be like a bolder crashing down hill.

Joff the prude.... one would have to think that through again.

O we get Bear and Maiden Fair , but later, in a different context, it seems. Butterbomps has been rendered.