nara

I'm just curious about if we'll get the "here's my suckling babe" line...

Being nice to manipulate Marg is one thing, but Cersei played her trump card (marriage to Tommen) with Marg too quickly. Talking marriage would have made more sense after she learned that the mines were no longer producing gold. In any case, I would have had her be "nice and sympathetic" to Marg but hint the marriage part to Mace. After all, he's the judge, and she would want to be sure he got the message. Also, talking to Marg about the marriage at all is very uncharacteristic because we know Cersei didn't like Marg's influence over Joff (e.g., the disposition of the leftovers) and didn't seem to acknowledge the value of what Marg taught him. Discussing the topic with her suggests that she believes Marg to be her peer (or close to it) which Cersei would never admit. Maybe Show Cersei is more pragmatic than Book Cersei in accepting the value of Marg, but then they shouldn't have made her order Pycelle to serve the leftover food to the dogs in Episode 2.

It's strange, but here's what I choose to believe. Hodor could not have fought off all the men, so warging into him earlier would have unnecessarily sacrificed Hodor's life. If the rape of Meera had continued and the men hadn't been distracted by Jon & co, Bran would have warged Hodor to save her (there were only 3 of the bad guys there I think, so the odds were more reasonable).

He owns a brothel. It seems normal that he would have a bastard from there...

I know, it just seems careless...

I will apologize in advance for being super nitpicky today...The episode had a lot of fun moments, but felt a little sloppy IMHO. I think the showrunners have gotten so used to episode 9 being the big one that they have introduced a lot of filler this season to keep "where whores go" and the battle at the wall in episode 9. Unnecessary, in my opinion--but, like Jon Snow, I know nothing. Is this the first episode without Peter Dinklage? Anyway, I missed him. Also, why put NCW in the episode with no lines? Why are they not actually bending the knee? We know the expression exists in show-verse, because Cersei said it in Season 1 and Ned bent the knee to Robert. Seemed like lazy direction to me Loved Cersei stepping in front of Tommen when he and Marg are gazing into each other's eyes-- laughed out loud! Cersei brokering marriage—WTF? -- I think that didn't make sense at all for a mother in mourning. As much as I like Cersei not being a complete nitwit, this is ruining the awesomeness that is Tywin. I think it was sloppy writing for Marg to call Cersei sister DIdn’t Cersei already warn her about that and tell her she would strangle Marg in her sleep if she ever called her sister again? Seriously, did the writer not watch the previous episodes? Emilia looks lovely in that dress. For some reason, Dany calling Jorah, "Jorah" not "Ser Jorah" is annoying me. However, I'm glad that they gave a scene to him after ignoring him all season. Loved the lesson from LF – know your strengths and use them wisely. Good in real life too. Why on earth would they make Alayne Petyr's niece? He doesn't have a brother and that's easily known. It would make perfect sense for a man who runs a brothel to have a bastard. Oldly random change. Impressive scenery at the Eyrie! Sweetrobin likes Peytr? It seems uncharacteristic that Robin would like anyone who takes his mother's attention from him. However, I can live with it. I'm really glad they kept Lysa screaming!!! I thought she deserved some happiness. I also liked the reveal of her role in Jon's death and LF shutting her up with a kiss! Cersei agreeing to marry Loras? Setting a timeline? Another WTF. I don't care for the Lannisters being revealed as out of gold so quickly, but we'll see. Lemoncakes! Pod on a horse was hilarious! I like the change from distain to respect in the relationship between Brienne and Pod. I'm glad that someone knows what he did for Tyrion! Oberyn not having sex! The best thing in the episode. I did like the scene between him and Cersei, especially the kinda introduction of Sand Snakes! I really liked Jojen’s vision's and how he tried to save his sister. “Hounds chained up inside”!!!! -- umm, direwolves. Made me laugh. I saw Snow fall and bury your bones! -- nice! I think this is their way of signalling that snow falling imagery = Jon Snow. Okay, why doesn’t Jon sense ghost’s presence? That seemed odd to me... Bran warging Hodor was great, but I thought the end of Locke was abrupt and premature. Overall, I think the new Bran scenes made sense to add. Also gave us a couple of kick-ass scenese without ruining the story.

As awesome as that is, it surprised me when I watched the episode that neither one seemed to know/remember that Cersei is also a kingslayer, by way of boar/strong wine.

I wholeheartedly agree with you that the idea of Tommen and Marg actually being sexual is gross, but keep in mind that his parents were fooling around at that age (when their mother's maid caught them, but it's not clear what exactly they were doing) so it's not impossible.

This was an episode that had lots of changes from the books. I am a book purist, but I felt that a lot of the changes worked. I really liked the expanded role of Grey Worm in causing the slaves to rise. I liked Barristan’s advice to Dany, which of course she ignored. Was it just me or does he seem to have some doubt about Dany as a ruler? Jaime’s getting quite good with the left-hand sword. And I have to say that NCW looked really handsome in this episode! I love Bronn as Jaime's conscience and I like the reminder that Tyrion wanted Jaime has his champion during his first trial. One of the things I find interesting is that Jaime is never really there when his siblings are counting on him (I am especially bitter about Cersei’s letter in AFFC) I’m glad that there was a convo between Jaime and Tyrion but it looks like “she’s been fucking Lancel, Kettleblack and Moonboy” will not happen. I love this foreshadowing: “Sansa is not a killer—not yet, anyway” Petyr and Sansa –I thought I was going to vomit when Petyr stroked Sansa’s arm while talking about what he wanted. I did like her faith in Tyrion and vice versa. Perhaps that’s foreshadowing a future rapprochement between Sansa and Tyrion. How much do I love Olenna the Sex Goddess? However, I hate that she's leaving KL I’m not sure if I like Olenna’s confession so soon. People were really enjoying their theories about who killed Joffrey. As many people predicted, the little boy from Mole Town is a good archer. I think he’s a Satin replacement. They got rid of Satin because they were concerned about Jon/Satin shippers, and no one will think about sex between Jon and this mentee! Locke has made it to the NW! I really thought he would pretend to have fought for Robb. I think that’s a missed opportunity to play on Jon’s sympathies. I literally clapped at the mention of Ser Pounce! I actually liked Marg’s seduction of Tommen. Now the aging up of Tommen makes sense. I may have a filthy mind, but I was really afraid she was going to perform a sex act on him. Really glad that did not happen. The actor looks 14! Oathkeeper was awesome and there were definitely a few moments between Brienne and Jaime—clearly foreshadowing a future between the two. I am not a Jaime/Brienne shipper, but I hope people who are enjoyed the fodder. I’m glad they cut out the part about Pod following Brienne—this was much easier. Is this the first time we’ve seen Pod smiling? I loved it, and the fact that he got Tyrion’s axe. Jon knows about Bran! I really like this change, but I would have liked to see the celebration/conflict in Jon when he found out. I feel we’re really being robbed of some good opportunities for real emotion in the show. I really hope that Jon actually meets Bran at Craster’s Keep. I am a book purist, but if they’re going to make changes in the show, this is one I’d love to see. I’m afraid that Summer getting caught just when he found Ghost was a prediction that the brothers’ reunion would be thwarted at the last minute. I really loved the charismatic Jon during the call for volunteers!!! It really reminded me of “I have my swords, and we’re coming for you, bastard!”—which is my favorite Jon moment. It was great foreshadowing of the future vote, but I kinda preferred when that vote was out of the blue. When I realized that Gin Alley Guy was drinking from Jeor Mormont’s skull, I wanted to jump through my TV screen and murder him myself. I really want him to die horribly! Was it just me, or was anyone else disgusted with them actually showing the raping on screen? I actually felt sorry for Rast with that guy threatening to rape him…until he threw away water when Ghost was thirsty. I want him to die horribly too! I also want them all to die for hurting Hodor. I liked the baby boy and the reminder that Craster sacrifices his sons to white walkers. I was hoping that Summer would somehow rescue the baby. Not sure what Bran and Co, would do with him… Finally a Ghost sighting! I’m glad they had a real reason for not showing him. I was confused at the end. I thought that guy on a horse was an Other, not a wight. If so, to whom was he sacrificing the baby? Are they making the Others victims to some darker force?

I hope they give Ellaria a bigger role. That actress is being wasted in brothel scenes. Perhaps she will take over the Taena Merryweather role and be the one to play Cersei? If so, her bisexuality would have some actual plot value...

If that is what the showrunners believe is consensual sex, I think they have a very warped perspective on sex. The moment they aged up Tommen, I started to wonder if he would consummate the marriage to Marg. This convo supported that idea... In the book, she says no kind of feebly but then gives in to their passions. Here, she was saying no the whole time. Okay, clearly like most people, I was disturbed by the Jaime/Cersei sept scene, which I confess I liked in the books. It did feel rapey and the only reasons for it that I can think are 1) to make Jaime less sympathetic because he had become so in Season 3 and 2) to push off Jaime/Brienne shippers, because there is no way Brienne can end up with a man who raped his sister. He has paid the price for Bran with his hand, but this was nuts. I also think they felt that they made the Hound too funny and nice, so they had him steal the silver to keep him grey. Love the new Tommen. Unlike Joff, he actually looks like he could be Jaime's son. I liked the convo with Tywin, but I thought it strange that Tywin would be so insensitive to Cersei. This is the man who didn't want her to know that that Tyrells had rejected the marriage between her and WIllas. It looks like they are setting up for a break between Tywin and Cersei... I liked new Daario (especially his naked woman hilted dagger -- which I thought was a nice detail from the books) and I thought this was a reasonable way to continue the Dany/Daario relationship. I thought they could have drawn out his fight a little more. Random thought-- during the pissing match, the thought popped into my head "I wonder if the actors were told to come to the set with their bladders full?" I thought Sansa's escape was fine, but yeah, how did it suddenly become dark? When LF told her to call him Petyr, I was immediately grossed out. Also, I get that she's a tall actress, but somehow he's less scary when he's so much shorter than her. Can they not put some lifts in his shoes? Wildling attack was great and well done. Loved that Ygritte shot the first arrow. ANOTHER example of them greying a character that had become too sympathetic. Same with Jon suggesting that going after the mutineers was more important that protecting the smallfolk who were being attacked. Starting to see signs of the Lord Commander who forced Gilly to leave her child.

I got the impression from the books that Varys's relationship with Shae was unusual. She was the only one who recognized him when he was in one of his disguises and he showed her the secret passage out of his room. Perhaps he just likes her and wants her to be safe? Also, he acknowledges Tyrion saved KL and saving Shae may be related to that.

I think they are just trying to set her up as ultra-mean bitch for the show. They did stuff early in series (imaginary black-haired child who died, etc.) to make her more sympathetic and now they have to compensate for that. As far as I can tell, the only thing that Pycelle ever did to her was try to keep Jaime out of the delivery room when she was giving birth to Joffrey. He's the one who told her about Myrcella going to Dorne, so she should be grateful to him. Of course, she could just think he's a dirty old man who enjoyed examining young women (including herself) far too much.

I don't think 1 year can pass for each season because that would mean they waited over a year between Blackwater and Marg/Joff wedding, which would be unnecessary. I think they just ignore the aging of the child actors--there's no good way to deal with it--and pray they don't grow as fast as Sansa and Bran have.

Tommen --new actor. He does look older than the last boy, but perhaps they felt it was better to have a slightly older boy to marry Marg (particularly since she is played by an actress who is 30--I think). I think he's meant to be 11-12 in the show.

agreed. but if he's headed to the wall, perhaps Janos Slynt will do the honors to try to curry favor with Tywin

I saw your comment, but was still not able to spot it on review. I must not be looking close enough! ETA: I finally saw it. Wow, you must watch the show frame by frame to have caught that! :bowdown: On another note, it just occurred to me that since we don't have Taena Merrywether, there needs to be someone else who lies about seeing Tyrion put the poison in the cup. In the book, Taena and Shae are the only ones who truly lie in trial--others twist the truth and tell half-truths. Perhaps they will combine them for now and Shae will lie about seeing Tyrion place the poison--either out of spite/woman-scornedness (yes, I know that's not a word) or to save her own life from Cersei/Tywin. That would definitely make Tyrion want to kill her!

Although it's not clear from the books whether or not Tywin (or his children) actually likes the song, it's definitely played by musicians who are trying to kiss Lannister butt. However, I was under the impression that there were several interpretations of this song, some somber, some cheerful--though I can't find textual evidence at the moment. I assumed it was a cheerful version that was played at the wedding. The Lannisters definitely use it to their advantage when they see fit, but I doubt they want to hear it as frequently as it's played at the wedding.

Agreed (on your equation). I did like the wail in the books because 1) it was a reminder that even someone as evil as Joff can be loved and 2) Cersei is generally restrained in her public emotions prior to the PW, and I liked the lack of control in her reaction. But yeah, I can move on now. Really looking forward to the trial, etc.

Lots of comments on the lack of an anguished wail from Cersei. I missed it too. I felt real sympathy for her during this scene in the book. I also thought it would be a good parallel with Catelyn's cry when Robb is killed--two mothers, two screams. In fact, that would have been a good way to end the episode and save the accusations for episode 3. However, perhaps they were trying to show the difference between Cat and Cersei. Cat goes into a stupor at her son's death and Cersei springs into action/accusation to bring his "murderer" to justice. Works both ways.

I really hope we get the lines where Shae says Tyrion forced her to do unnatural things and Oberyn wants more details!

Didn't D&D eliminate Ros because the actress didn't want to do anymore nude scenes? At least, that was the rumor. Perhaps she is the new "random woman we can show nude and act as though that's part of the plot." Giving her a role as Ramsay's henchwoman might be a set up for that... Glad to hear it. I hope she stays healthy. Also, am I the only one unhappy that apparently Selyse and Stannis were already married during the siege of Storm's End? It doesn't really matter since they already got rid of Edric Storm in the show, but I always liked how angry Stannis was that Robert bedded their cousin in his marriage bed and caused him not to have sons.

Thanks for sharing. It was a good version. But I still think it would have been cool to have Jack or Sophie sing it.

Penny can still be the sister of one of those dwarves, even if she wasn't in the skit herself

I actually thought it worked because Tyrion told Varys that he had warned her several times and she wouldn't listen. Also, there are some who theorize that Shae was always Tywin's pawn/whore--because Bronn stole her from someone else in Tywin's camp and it's never mentioned who that was. (Not sure where I stand on this) Anyway, if that's true, she might think that she has nothing to fear from Tywin. Yes, loved the visions! Need to rewatch and analyze. Was anyone else reminded of the movie, The Ring, during those visions? How is your friend doing? Was it show-related anxiety or something else? Forgot to mention early, Theon was AWESOME. I was really pleased with his reaction to hearing about Robb's death. He had to hide it from Ramsay, but I was VERY glad to see the emotion there. I didn't feel we got enough of it from Jon last week and Sansa in last season's finale due to the way the scenes were written.