bemused

I do believe that Ser Shadrich (possibly Howland Reed) is there to rescue Sansa rather than kidnap her. Chances are that he will have help in Ser Morgarth (possibly Elder Brother) and Ser Byron (possibly the Blackwood heir, Brynden).

I don't think Shadrich is after the KL reward ... but his conversation with Brienne was in part, to let her know that a reward for Sansa had been offered (and so to be more wary) ... and in part, to judge from Brienne's reactions whether her intentions were honourable. (In much the same vein as the Liddle's conversation with Bran and Jojen - giving information while testing them obliquely.)

Yohn Royce (and even Randa Royce) might act in Sansa's interests, for different reasons ... and Sansa gives us something to think about in the Alayne chapter when she wonders if Lyn Corbray is really Petyr's bought ally pretending to be an adversary or if he's a true adversary pretending to have been bought.

If Shadrich and his two companions arrived together, it was probably on one of the ships Brienne noted at Maidenpool. There was the Gulltown Girl and the Seastrider.

She and Podrick Payne made the rounds of the ships that remained. The master of the Gulltown Girl took Brienne for a whore and told them that his ship was not a bawdy house, and a harpooner on the Ibbenese whaler offered to buy her boy, but they had better fortune elsewhere. She purchased Podrick an orange on the Seastrider, a cog just in from Oldtown by way of Tyrosh, Pentos, and Duskendale. "Gulltown next," her captain told her, "thence around the Fingers to Sisterton and White Harbor, if the storms allow. She's a clean ship, 'Strider, not so many rats as most, and we'll have fresh eggs and new-churned butter aboard. Is m'lady seeking passage north?" ... AFFC, Brienne V

Shadrich (and perhaps Byron) may already have been aboard since Shadrich had been headed to Duskendale.

Until the situation with the Corbrays comes into sharper focus, I wouldn't rule out an escape through Gulltown. Lyonel's young wife is the daughter of a rich Gulltown merchant who might be susceptible to persuasion.

From the "Even now, little things I've missed suddenly jump out at me" department .... (As I've probably said somewhere upthread, among other places)  I've long held the opinion that Stannis most likely wrote a letter to Jon from the field, but that it was intercepted at the wall by the conspirators (including Thorne) and Jon received an altered version - edited to suit the conspirators' ends.

I won't rehash all the possible clues in this chapter (Theon's opinions, ravens,etc.) or in Jon's last ADWD chapter (the appearance of the letter, Clydas behaviour, etc.) ... but a few days ago, while browsing the Theon chapter in ADWD, I noticed this..

"I see you all want blood," the Lord of the Dreadfort said. Maester Rhodry stood beside him, a raven on his arm. The bird's black plumage shone like coal oil in the torchlight. Wet Theon realized. And in his lordship's hand, a parchment. That will be wet as well.

Any letter sent to Jon at Castle Black from Stannis, or anyone at Winterfell would have travelled much farther in the snow storm and would certainly be wet, but neither Jon nor Tormund take note of this, in spite of noticing many other details.

Just one more sign that whoever wrote a letter to Jon, Jon did not receive it as it was originally written.

again..

 testing

@Nevets.. It's quite possible that the survival of the Stark boys may be revealed at the tree. Bran is definitely (IMO) trying to communicate to and/or through Theon. Many of us feel he'll succeed

Stannis really only wants to execute him to please the northmen . I'm quite convinced that they will ask that Theon be taken to the tree ,as well. They (say, Alysanne or Middle Liddle) probably advised Asha to make the request. .. perhaps because they believe "no man can lie before a heart tree" Yes, they have more to hate Theon for, but are they executable offenses?.. and if so, would they be satisfied with offering Theon the chance to "take the black" (as Luwin once did)? He took WF, but Ramsay was the one who put it to the torch. .. And remember that even though he didn't stop it, and went so far as to dress their dead bodies, he didn't even kill the miller's boys. Ramsay did.

Before going to the tree, Stannis may think Theon killed the boys, but he also thinks Theon helped rescue Jon's little sister. We know how Stannis punished the wrong Davos did, while rewarding the good. For Theon, being sent to the wall would be the punishment and reward rolled into one.

Stannis particularly wouldn't care that Theon destroyed hope of victory for Robb, since Stannis never considered Robb a legitimate king, but a rebel trying to carve away a large chunk of what Stannis sees as his own kingdom.

On 7/10/2016 at 3:24 AM, kissdbyfire said:

I don't think so... I think Stannis will take Asha's advice and take Theon before the heart tree to behead him, but Bran will interfere.

On 7/15/2016 at 7:29 AM, kissdbyfire said:

Just so. It will be Bran speaking through Theon.

I absolutely agree.

On 7/7/2016 at 8:58 PM, Lrd Commander Midnight said:

Stanis is an honorable man very dutifully, and he even mentions that he would lose all his Northmen if he were to release the turncloak for killing dead Ned's two sons

Stannis believes he would lose his Northmen , but the clans all know the boys are alive... remember, they were watching Bran as he travelled north (he saw them through Summer's eyes) And when Bran met the Liddle in the cave, the Liddle seemed to think Rickon was alive too.He implied that the Boltons were still looking for both of them.

Also...

On 7/15/2016 at 7:24 AM, King Endymion Targaryen said:

Manderly & Glover have Wex.They know that the Stark boys are alive.Theon is needed alive for a while to reveal what happened in Winterfell.His execution will be delayed until one of the Boltons is arrested.

 Yes, they have Wex, at least .. and there's some reason to believe that they may have actually had a hand in getting Rickon to safety .. that sending Davos for him was in order to keep Davos from giving Stannis the information too soon. They don't really want Stannis to have Rickon, and they don't really want Stannis to have WF. They want Rickon and WF to be in Stark/Northern hands ... then they may ally with Stannis against KL.

I think they'd all be more likely to send Theon to the wall, rather than execute him.

I meant to add that Euron forces the Damphair to drink more shade of the evening than Dany consumed.. We know that at least some of her visions were false ,manipulated by the Undying. So can Euron (or Euron and "Pree") manipulate some of Aerons visions? (Like Euron on the IT?)

Plenty of interesting hypotheses here. 

The three murdered brothers were Harlon, Robin (the half brother) and Balon . I guess we'll get some future revelation about the fate of Urri...

I'm still not feeling the FM connection , unless some FM turned rogue, or unless Euron had somehow captured one, as Lord Varys suggests..

5 minutes ago, Lord_Ravenstone said:

 

Since madeinmyr predicted where Euron was going, I'll also quite him:

 

 

Euron Crow’s Eye is GRRM’s reinterpretation of the classic dark lord antagonist. 

*****

So what’s going on here? If Martin thinks this, then why did he write a dangerous, up and coming dark lord into his storyline and make him one of the primary human villains? We’ve been puzzling over this question for a while now and we think we’ve finally arrived at the answer.

Now Euron is the encroaching dark lord with his evil army of slaves and marauders. Unlike the reader, the people in the South do not know about the Others and R’hllor. If Euron sacks Oldtown, captures a dragon, and begins burning large parts of the Reach he will therefore be viewed as the ultimate force for evil. Rulers and heroes will mobilize to fight him, believing that after the Crow’s Eye is destroyed Westeros will at last know peace. The victors will naturally believe that their triumph will secure their right to rule.

But the dark lord is not actually the problem; he is merely a symptom of the problem. We’ve mentioned how Euron’s flamboyant villainy is really an intimidating front designed to hide his true power and malevolence. But the true self hidden behind this front is not the true villain, it is merely a second front. Behind the Crow’s Eye is the Song of Ice and Fire, the battle of the Others and R’hllor, and behind these two malignant powers is the human ambition, wickedness, fear, desperation, greed and stupidity that has long drawn such demons into the world

The dark lord’s defeat will only put an end to his horrific rampage; it will not magically solve the political crisis, end the numerous vendettas, alleviate the country’s ongoing collapse, or prepare Westeros for Winter and the War for the Dawn. These challenges will have to be dealt with separately and will be far less satisfying. The danger is that the (supposed) vanquishers will believe in their story-book ending and think they’ve won the game while the country continues its slide towards utter ruin. One of the consistent themes of the book is that waging war is actually easy compared to ruling and peacemaking (just ask Queen Daenerys Targaryen, Ned Stark, Robb Stark, Tywin Lannister, Queen Cersei Lannister, Theon Greyjoy and King Robert Baratheon). If Euron’s destruction results in yet another period of Southern compliancy and fratricidal bloodletting then his destruction will have accomplished absolutely nothing. Part of the reason Euron the dark lord exists is to provide a climax for two of the series’ longest running themes. First, conquest does not equal victory and you confuse these two at your peril. Second, evil largely results from the decisions, beliefs, sentiments, and mistakes of ordinary human beings trying to live as best they can within difficult circumstances and deeply-flawed societies.

I think this is excellent insight.

But to come back to some details in the reading, I think that Aeron's struggle to name who is fit to sit the seastone chair is complicated by things he cannot know. I think he he believes Theon to be dead (but in any case, he's unlikely to be accepted as king because of what's been done to him). He thinks Asha and Victarion should marry, she to provide the brains for ruling, he to provide the brawn.

He can't get past disqualifying her because she's cursed with a woman's body and  probably the IB in general would share his opinion. However, They may go to Oldtown at some point. Aeron may be able to slip his bonds...hmmmm...

I think there are tantalizing hints that Theon did impregnate the captain of the Myraham's daughter and that she and the baby may be the mother and child Sam notices at the dock for the Bloody Isle. The baby would be in Balon's direct line... and since the Damphair is sensing a some sort of joint rulership. Asha as regent or protector for Theon's son might fit the bill.

11 minutes ago, -Winterfellian- said:

I was actually thinking this is not to be taken at face vaue.

Personally, I lean more towards a more metaphorical representation. It is the horn that binds to Euron the power of House Greyjoy (the Krakens) at the Kingsmooot. He may use it to bind Dany to whatever it is that he's planning (dragons). I am not sure about the sphinx yet. But given that he is headed towards Oldtown, could it be that our Dorninsh sphinx there is involved somehow as you mention? The only other mention of  sphinx I can recall is "The Sphinx is the riddle not the riddler"

But still, what an incredible chapter as a whole! 

One thing that caught my atttention is the I couldn't find a reference to the Old Gods in the description of the throne and other religions as a whole (I understand, this could be because of the transcript).  I am trying to think of this as a positive thing.

 

Me, too.. but of course, they have no real personification, do they? I mean not from men's POV.

... and as I type, I see Hos has made some points for me, above ...

7 hours ago, dornishdame said:

It is an interesting inclusion - particularly when Myranda has pointedly remarked in Feast that Ned Stark's bastard son has now been appointed Lord Commander of the Night's Watch, and it was mentioned in the same book that Yohn Royce had encountered Sansa at Winterfell  when he escorted Ser Waymar to Castle Black (and met her again in King's Landing at the Hand's Tourney).  I am not sure how closely or distantly Dolorous Edd is related to the Andrew Tollett that Alayne dances with, but this further link to the Night's Watch has me even more convinced than before that her blurting out Jon's name could prove to be significant. 

Me, too. I don't think that will be missed by Miranda. She'll be checking the rumour mill for sure.

6 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Sansa actually dances with See Byron and Ser Morgarth, so they are still around

 

Thanks, I'd forgotten that !  I haven't looked at the chapter for a while. ..I remembered mention of Andrew Tollett, and am still intrigued by his inclusion.

On 3/15/2016 at 0:35 PM, kissdbyfire said:

It happens to me, always, on PC and iPad. The only way I can get rid of the unwanted quote box is going through some steps (a bit annoying, but easy enough to do)

1 - I have to click inside the quote box and 'erase' a little of the text; even just a few letters will do. And if it's just the empty quote box, you still have to click inside it and then hit the backspace key a few times. 

2 - then on the top of the quote box, click at the end of the poster's name and backspace a few times, and the whole thing disappears. 

Hope it helps. 

Going to test it now .Fingers crossed...

ETA: Well, it sort of worked..it did erase the whole quote,though ..I'll try something a bit different (erasing from the beginning of the quote instead of the end).. But this is more workable than before, anyway.

Another stupid question following my still unsolved original stupid question...

I was posting while distracted by other things  and in quoting a number of passages from book text which I wanted to enclose in quote boxes, Ikept hitting the spoiler icon inadvertently. i'd like to fix it, but cant get the boxes to disappear.. There's probably a simple answer ... I hope?

testing..

Does he want to kidnap her, or offer her an escape ? 

Might Shadrich already have some help ? What happened to Ser Byron and Ser Morgarth ? Some readers saw similarities between Ser Morgarth and Elder brother. I'm not sure I do, yet, but it's a question.

I've always felt that if it came to a crunch between LF and Sansa Lothor Brune might act in her favour. He seems to have an underlying decency. Even Lyn Corbray might help, since Sansa detects that he might not be quite so much in LF's pocket as LF thinks.

Hmmm ...Thanks RumHam .. valiant effort, but it looks like I can't increase my resolution - it's up to the max . Maybe I need a better screen.. but maybe it's not me, after all... everything was OK for  a while , after the big switch..

On 2/25/2016 at 7:22 AM, Le Cygne said:

I noticed the same thing but when I make the browser window bigger (wider), the size and the rest of the things appear.

(That was with regular computer, that is, not a phone...)

Dang!.. Well, I am a neanderthal with my computer.. But I'm on a regular computer ..(about 5-6 yr old PC)  and my window seems to be as big as it can be.. how would I try to make it wider.???(lost)

6 hours ago, JonCon's Red Beard said:

This board is being possessed by Satan:

Also, what happened with the other features for writing format? Size, etc? I can only find them in signatures.

 

(I got curious about who the comma user people want to block is )

I still have this exact same problem.

Can I then assume that the problem with my missing half of the toolbar in the reply box might be part of the same fix(es)?... fingers crossed.

I also notice that on the Home page there's a notice on the left -

A PHP ERROR WAS ENCOUNTERED

Severity: Notice

Message: geoip_continent_code_by_name(): Host 75.147.204.217, 173.245.50.199 not found

Filename: libraries/Functions.php(688) : eval()'d code

Line Number: 5

I've cleared my cache three times, now, made sure my defaults are OK, removed Westeros from my old bookmarks and re-entered it.. but don't know what else to do. (I confess I'm from the stone age where computer knowledge is concerned.)

It would be nice to think the problem will eventually be magically rectified.

OK, having this problem for the first time today. On my toolbar, everything to the right of bullet points and numbered points is missing. No colour, size, indent, centering, etc., etc.

I'm on Chrome. I cleared browsing data (twice), but nothing has changed.

So, what now?

^Stannis thinks that he can't spare Theon for political reasons,(which we know to be false) but the law of the land states that anyone can request to take the black, and Stannis honors the law.

Yes, and if he does take Theon to the tree, it will be because he wants to do justice in a way that is satisfactory to the northerners, in this particularly northern matter (not so much because Asha asks it).

Once, Luwin almost convinced Theon to take the black.. If Bran convinces him now (or in some way 'influences' him to ask),the northmen would agree.

I agree totally with kissdbyfire's post above and back at #127..Asha has grown close to Alysanne, Alysanne will be close to the clansmen (especially if you think there is a GNC or resistance movement ..under whatever name)

Asha wants to save Theon's life , but knows Stannis will not respond to emotional pleas..she saw earlier what wouldn't work with Stannis, and will most likely have taken advice from Alysanne and possibly some clansman (perhaps Middle Liddle ?) It was The Liddle who shared a shelter with Bran &co. on their way north. All the clansmen therefore know Bran and Rickon are alive, yet it's the murder of the Stark boys that Stannis thinks he must execute Theon for.(Her voice may well be the result of keeping her emotions in check.)

The Northmen waiting to see Stannis will also ask that Theon be taken to the tree, believing, as they do, that no man can lie before a heart tree.

There , pertinent questions may be put to him, or he will at least be given an opportunity to speak some last words. Theon wanted to explain himself to the old gods in the godswood. He may do it now.. and I would not rule out that he may "go into a trance" (i.e. be warged by Bran) and speak some truths - perhaps some of a nature to convince Stannis that the information is genuine ( i.e. something Stannis said or did at the Wall that is not generally known).

If it's shown Theon did not kill the boys, I believe it would be an acceptable option for all concerned to allow him to take the black.

okay, thanks.

I don't know if this is right place to ask , but I've had a thread duplicated.( a "fatal error" turned out not to be fatal :D)

Both versions have had some replies , and I'm not sure how to amalgamate the two. Suggestions?

Why? She has been bending over to attempt to gain JS's trust, knowingly poffering false prophecy does nothing to get on the inside...

why would Mel lie to Jon?

She would lie to Jon because she wants to seduce him in order to make shadow babies, because Stannis' life force has already been tapped to the degree of danger-beyond-this-point . She senses a power or strength in Jon. (These shadows ,she imagines ,she would use against the Great Other and his servants , but then,she thinks Bran and Bloodraven are his servants. )

She knows she doesn't always see everything , but even common sense says that if Jon leads the Hardhome mission, he would be in danger. The mission would put Jon out of her reach ..perhaps forever.

Of course she has reason to lie. She wants to keep Jon close. She's already lied to him on more than one occasion , all to gain his trust and gratitude .. in order to work him around to the seduction.

ETA; So, yes, I think Tycho will make it back..