A Bong of Ice and Fire

What I hate most is all the YouTubers saying The Winds of Winter is never coming out and the series will not be finished. I hate that negativity. My gut tells me TWoW will be out in the relatively near future, and the series will be finished.

That was the best episode of the season by far.  Only 2 left...

On 4/29/2019 at 8:15 PM, Nihiloth90 said:

Besides that the episode was so dark and difficult to see things, the divergence from the battles into that long Arya side plot, dodging zombies and meeting up with the Hound and Beric, was probably one of the dumbest things I've seen in this show. How she defeated the Night King was just hilariously bad. Arya jumps out of nowhere, Night King is easily defeated by dragon glass. You'd think he might have some kind of immunity to it, at least. Whole thing was a letdown.

Many of the final scenes also made no sense to me. I don't know if I can explain why, but the dragons ruined this whole episode for me; Jon and Daenerys riding the dragons and doing aerial battles--I don't know why, but it was just stupid. Then, Jon and Daenerys get knocked from their dragons; Daenerys is alone and so they are able to shoehorn that Jorah moment in. Why would Drogon take so long to get back to Daenerys? It would take too long to write a list about all the things wrong with this episode, but everything felt rushed and shoehorned in.
 

Yes, I agree it was way too dark.  Also they should have shown what Arya was up to before her ninja kill shot, how she got into position.  And sending 20,000 (?) Dothraki on a solo suicide charge was beyond stupid.  (Why didn't Dany & Jon go burn some undead first?)  So on the surface the episode basically sucked.

Also about Jorah, didn't he ride out with the Dothraki?  They all died, but he came back to save his Khaleesi?

However I still refuse to believe that D&D are that incompetent to so badly blow the ending of the Great War, or that GRRM wrote such a lame ending.  There MUST be a big twist coming.  It couldn't have ended like that.  Bran and the Night King are somehow colluding and planning something.  

7 minutes ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

 

I guess so. Looking back it seems Jon was brought back specifically as fan service and because of R+L=J. Wouldn't be surprised if Jon just stays dead in the books after this bullshit.

Seems the prince that was promised prophecy was horseshit because Arya is not a princess or of Targaryen blood unless the Robb Stark/Jon Snow kingship still counts which would technically make Arya and Sansa princesses of the North, but they don't because Jon bent the knee so none of the Starks would be considered princes or princesses. So they threw that prophecy out the window for "Omg be shocked that Arya was the one to kill the Night King!"

You don't know that D&D threw anything out the window for a "badass" Arya moment.  Supposedly they are following major plot points laid out by GRRM.  So it's not unlikely that GRRM told them that Arya plays a big role in defeating the White Walkers.  

And don't discount the possibility that this seemingly anti-climatic episode was a huge swerve.  I get the feeling that something went down between Bran and the Night King, and that the Night King isn't really dead and will be back in a big plot twist.  Or maybe D&D really are just hacks.  We'll find out soon enough.

Rushed, just like Season 7.  Just get to the action & battle scenes.  Everything else about the show since last season pretty much sucks now.  At least we'll get an ending.

6 hours ago, A Bong of Ice and Fire said:

Kind of ungrateful on Sansa's behalf.  She only escaped King's Landing and Joffrey because of Petyr.  He did actually love her, in his own twisted way.

2 hours ago, Alphonzo said:

She was only a prisoner at King's Landing because of Petyr's duplicity.  It's like killing somebody's puppy and then giving them an ice cream cone.  Gratitude would not be a likely or reasonable response.

People forget that Petyr only betrayed Ned after Ned refused Petyr's proposal to seize Joffrey and take power.  Petyr actually tried to help Ned, which he tried to explain to Cat in season 2.  When Ned asked Petyr to bribe the Gold Cloaks to support him, there was no way Petyr was going to go along with that stupid plan. It would have been suicidal.  Ned screwed Ned, not Petyr.

Best episode of the season by far.  Good dialogue, good writing, good payoff and ending to the Littlefinger story.  Great Cersei-Tyrion scene.  Sansa finally comes into her own, having learned from the master.  I also liked how they handled the Jon-Dany sex by making it gross by revealing it's actually incest right before it happened.  It wasn't as cheesy as feared.  Have to give credit to D&D when it's deserved.  (Well, not on this hateful board..)

5 minutes ago, syroya said:

Did anyone notice? In the Dragon Pit when Jon was demonstrating how to kill a wight, he took a torch and burned the wight's hand: "We can burn them". After that he threw out his Dragon glass dagger, stabbed it in the wight's belly and said: "Or we can kill them with dragon glass."

Where's the Valyrian Steel? Why didn't he mention it?

My good hunch would be to prevent Cersei from gathering the remaining Valerian steel. I mean Joh has Longclaw, Brienne has Oathkeeper, Sam took Heartsbane with him and Arya now has Catspaw, which is Valerian Steel, too. 

Might Widow's Wail still be in KL? Euron is said to wear a suit of black scale armors made from Valerian steel. Many other swords got lost. If I remember well there has to be one in the Eyrie, yet: Lady Forlorn.

What's your opinion on this? Why did Jon leave the Valyrian Steel out?

Valyrian steel is known to kill White Walkers.  We don't know that it also kills wights.

52 minutes ago, Eddard the Builder said:

I did like that Littlefinger died similarly to Brandon Stark.  A hundred men sat in that throne room, watched, and did and said nothing.  None even lifted a finger to help him.  

Although shockingly even I felt even some degree of pity for him as he pleaded to Sansa.  

Kind of ungrateful on Sansa's behalf.  She only escaped King's Landing and Joffrey because of Petyr.  He did actually love her, in his own twisted way.

This is the worst season so far, by far. It's still entertaining and has some nice visuals and effects, and the episode 4 battle was great to watch, but the the once savvy and compelling characters have all become idiots for no reason. The wight chase mission is incredibly, I mean incredibly stupid and ill-conceived. And not one person on Dany's council of imbeciles objected to it. 

There is still a chance the show will finish well in season 8. At least it will give us an ending to the story. 

51 minutes ago, FacelessManOf TheShire said:

You are right about this.

That said, I only replied to thank you for making me smile this Friday afternoon with your forum name, and for reminding me of 'lazy' summer afternoons from before I was forced to be a responsible adult

Glad to make you smile!  Although truth be told, I'm kind of embarrassed about the name now, since I quit cold turkey about 7 months ago!

I feel sorry for this lonely thread.  So I'll post in it.  Episode 4 was awesome!

16 hours ago, The Arthur Smith said:

If you want to go to a pace where there isn't much bitching and winning, there's Under the Heart Tree Free Forum. That place has better moderators as the allowed for Unsuillied watchers to enjoy the show without angry purists shoving their assertions down to their throat and wanted positivity around the forum. Plus unlike this website, that forum refused to have a R&R thread.

Yeah, but allowing huge gifs in peoples' signatures really ruins Under the Heart Tree for me.  It's incredibly distracting and annoying when scrolling through threads, at least to me.  Comments sections under articles in Watchers on the Wall are pretty good, too.  Not exactly a forum structure, though.

Westeros.org is an absolutely miserable place to talk about GoT.  The book section of the website is good, but the show section is utter garbage.

I see a Grey Worm / Missandei twist coming.  They're going to turn against Tyrion.

All of this outrage, and if Stannis sacrifices Shireen in the next book...Oh, well GRRM did it properly and now it makes sense, if DD had just done this it would be ok. blah blah blah

Fake outrage is the worst thing about the internet.

Watched it for the fourth time. I think I have to put in my top 5.

In no particular order: Baelor, Blackwater, The Reynes of Castamere, The Children, Hardhome

That's a great list, but I might squeeze The Lion and The Rose in there (Joffrey's wedding).

Er, they did address all that, in episode 503. Whether you think the explanations make sense or not (I don't, particularly). The Boltons are betraying the Lannisters, so they don't care what they think anymore, and Sansa's marriage to Tyrion is automatically invalid because they didn't have sex.

it's a desperate move by the Boltons. Northern Lords hate them, and the Lannisters without Tywin are not a reliable ally. I doubt that Roose trusts Sansa or Littlefinger, but he doesn't have many good options.

I'm blindly hoping they kill Greg Worm instead of Barristan. Get rid of the awkward and pointless nomance with Missandei.

If that happens, we may never see Missandei's boobs again. Come on, man!

After the first viewing I would have given it a 3. I saw it again yesterday with friends and now would give it a 7. Glad I waited.

Strong points: Stannis and Shireen, Jaime saying Tarth, finally we see the poisonous nature Cersei hides behind her love of her children. Tired of that whitewashing. The Sparrows were terrifying.

Sansa at Winterfell? That whole plot line makes me cringe. Mereen is even more unsettling. Goodbye Barristan. Sheds tears.

I'm warming up to Sansa at Winterfell, if they take the story in the direction of vengeance, which seems likely given Littlefinger's advice to her. I do not want to see Sansa get the Jeyne Poole treatment. But if Sansa organizes her own red wedding or Frey pies, that can be pretty cool! I'd like to see Dark Sansa go all the way.

WHAT A WASTE.

Last night's episode is still sticking to the back of my throat, like a rancid cask of Arbor Red. Ser Barristan was a wasted character on the show from day one. They never let him fully develop or be of any relevance like he is in the books. Here you have the baddest knight in the seven kingdoms basically playing a friendly grandpa to Dany. I'm surprised he didn't offer her a piece of hard candy and a crumpled up kleenex he dug out of the bottom of his purse.

Book Barristan was by far my favorite character and I was so excited to see them bring his Mereen chapters (after Dany takes flight) to life. Now I fear they will give his story arc to the undeserving Daario, or even - shudder - Jorah. Ser Barristan deserved his moment in the sun, and D&D simply did him wrong.

I'm not one to take my toys and leave the playground, but D&D's decision to send Barristan packing before his time has really soured my entire enjoyment of the series. I think I will skip the rest of the seasons so that they will not spoil WOW for me. I'd rather read GRRM's true vision first, and then catch up on this fan fic version once it is released on Blu-Ray. I honestly think this is it for me.

Cute stuff with Shereen and Stannis. Jon getting hypnotized by a boob was pretty funny, but the Sand Snakes were just laughable... and not in a good way. They basically took all the cool stuff we liked about the Sand Snakes and threw it away in exchange for some angsty, vaguely ethnic, teens with nipple armor. Interesting stuff with LF and Sansa, clearly being set-up for the "controversial" scene next week when Ramsay shows his true colors. And although it was nice to get some Rhaegar lore in there, it seemed like it came out of nowhere. Like suddenly D&D needed to get the backstory out there and threw out some random Rhaegar tales, instead of using what could have been (Selmy) a nice long lead up through personal accounts of what happened during the Rebellion.

Boo. Just boooooooooo on you D&D. #TeamBarristan4Life

I kind of agree. But I can also see Barristan's TV death as being used to upset Dany and push her toward her true identity and purpose, make her realize she is the Dragon and cannot pretend otherwise. And then she can finally burn Mereen to ashes and hit the road to the West!

I've enjoyed the Wall scenes in the first two episodes. The rest, not too much.

I didn't like at all how Ellaria Sand talked to Prince Doran. She is after all a Sand, not a Martell. Doesn't seem realistic that she could get away with that. Would have much preferred Arriane. Oh well.

As a book purist, even I don't mind the change from 'only Cat' to 'your sister' -- it just doesn't change anything for me. However, if people are saying that D&D did it for the unsullied, well, I think that's really not giving the tv viewers any credit for intelligence.

They not only re-iterated how much Littlefinger loves 'Sansa's Mom' just a few scenes prior (and god knows we've heard it for 4 seasons straight now)... but come on -- they think TV viewers won't remember who Catelyn STARK was? They think they forgot the woman's name from the Red Wedding? Lol, that's laughable and insulting.

No. Makes zero sense. If it were some secondary character, sure -- but not Catelyn Stark.

I think they changed it just to change it -- cuz they can.

That aside - I liked the episode, Oberyn, Jaime, Sansa and Tyrion mainly. Not tickled with the Wall stuff, but loved all the Tyrion-cell scenes.

I liked the change in Littlefinger's line just because it pisses off so many purists. :) That scene was great regardless of the change.

Great episode. 2 weeks...

That was a great episode, one of the best so far. The ending was incredibly well done, so suspenseful and thought-provoking. The Margaery-Tommen scene was legendary. I think there's no male on here that can't relate to poor Tommen!

The Littlefinger-Sansa scene was great. Littlefinger gave Sansa 2 reasons for killing Joffrey - to be unpredicable to confuse his opponents; and to get rid of a crazy unreliable ally.

But I am sure there was a 3rd and very important reason that he didn't tell - to kill Tyrion and make Sansa single again. He knew Tyrion would get blamed (especially with Sansa missing). Even though Littlefinger says he wants everything, what he really wants is Sansa-Cat. That is his prime motivation and his fatal flaw. I wonder if Sansa can figure that out.

Remember Littlefinger was ready to die for love when he challenged Brandon Stark. That type of passion does not fade.

Great effing show!!! Love it!!! :)

I think Barristan dies at Jorah's jealous hand, then Dany has to tragically kill Jorah. Much drama.

Actually Catelyn overheard the killer of her son Robb at the Red Wedding say one very cutting line which we must assume the ever-verngeful Lady Stoneheart took very seriously and very literally. Dear Roose Bolton (or so I presume), has false incriminated our dear Jamie before Catelyn.

Actually I think it is merely an ironic reference of Roose's part to Jaime's parting words to Roose Bolton before leaving Harrenhal for King's Landing. Jaime of course knows nothing of the Red Wedding to come or his Father's hand and means his words in an entirely different context.

And so a terrible and ill-fitting fate laid down for Jaime, ever the one of misattributed deeds, by a misunderstanding and perhaps the one and only moment we see humour from Roose Bolton.

I don't think Lady Stoneheart needs any more motivation to hate Jaime Lannister. After all, it's undisputed fact that Jaime pushed her son Bran out of a tower window. I think Roose's last words to Rob are just him keeping his promise to Jaime. Roose's queer honor.