DMC

Yeah, I think this is a fair criticism for the entire show. Viserys, Daemon, Rhaenyra, Alicent, Otto. They all have certain reasons to not be, of course, but for the five primary people that rule a continent they are VERY unhappy.

I still think you're being unimaginative in the extent of the reforms possible, but, well, it's progress.

Sure. As the famous Weber quote goes, "politics is a strong and slow boring of hard boards." It just seemed as if your previous response was saying a "good" ruler must submit to those "boards" as unmovable, which to me is anathema to the definition. Also, I think it's useful to provide the rest of Weber's quote:

I don't think the measure of a good ruler - even in Westeros or Essos - is in how well they uphold the status quo. Particularly the abject iniquities that compose much of that status quo. If that were the case no progress could ever be made throughout history. As an absolute ruler ordained by the gods - and, ya know, dragons in the Targs' case pre-Dance - most rulers have incredible opportunity to alter this status quo. Indeed, much more so than their real life counterparts.

I find this discussion on trying to divine Martin's feelings on systems of government..odd. Just because the wildings and the Ironborn have particularly barbaric cultures, that's hardly a comment concerning the author's feelings on democracy - in this world or his own universe. And btw, the wildings' method of choosing does not resemble participatory democracy even in its infancy/at its most limited. I'm also surprised there hasn't been any mention of Volantis' elections either - whose depiction was quite a bit of fun in ADWD and interestingly included the closest thing to actual political parties. But, again, I really wouldn't read too much into any of that. And I agree as mentioned that Martin's only real comments on feudalism are highlighted by Sandor's insightful take - just as Meribald's speech is Martin's clear statement on war.

Yeah, they have different interpretations. That's pretty much my point. I also don't put too much stock in those after-the-show things where everyone is clearly just riffing.

Writers/directors intentionally leaving something ambiguous is hardly a new thing, and this is decidedly character-centered instead of plot-driven. It's not some Abrams-esque "mystery box" (The Mystery of Daemon's Vanishing Libido) that promises to be paid off eventually and then never is. Hell, if you asked Rhaenyra and Daemon themselves to each give an honest account of the brothel scene, their interpretations would almost certainly be markedly different.

I think you should watch that scene again. Daemon is dismissive of her, sure, but that's clearly because he's hungover. He also asks if he's her prisoner and she responds she's his protector which could just refer to her taking care of him while he's wasted but is still a..weird exchange. And the messenger kid who brings word to Otto comes back with Mysaria's payment right in front of Daemon. Again, the whole thing is weird.

Boremund Baratheon.

I tend to agree but the whole business with Mysaria is what's got me confused. Seems weird to insert her into that whole thing. Maybe we'll get some explanation there - and I do think it's possible Daemon wanted Mysaria to leak it so Viserys found out - but I wouldn't be surprised if it's never really addressed again and they just wanted to give the character some screen time (Mysaria, I mean).

Well, the brothel scene is certainly open to interpretation - and frankly I liked that aspect of it. I know it was mentioned in the after-the-show thing that he's impotent, but even so clearly that impotence is psychological, so I don't view that as mutually exclusive to him not wanting to because he knew it was wrong and/or he was surprised Rhaenyra was into it. As for his general motivations for taking Rhaenyra out, I think there's a lot of reasons - it generally fits with his general character as "Lord Flea Bottom;" he obviously does have feelings for Rhaenyra and wanted to show her the "real world;" his speech about sex being for pleasure also reflects his elitist attitude as a Targ which he obviously thinks Rhaenyra is entitled to as well (as he tells Viserys); and, yes, he still harbors resentment towards Viserys and wanted to get back at him. Are at least some of those motivations conflicting? Of course, but that goes to my original point and Daemon especially almost always has conflicting motivations. I don't view that nor the "confusion" among the actors, writers, etc. about their interpretation of the brothel scene is necessary bad things at all.

Well, I do. And Tyrion immediately voices the same opinion. You seem to have a very narrow or specialized definition of "psycho." Mass murder to kill your enemies is pretty psycho - and stupid - in my book, but YMMV. The repercussions of that decision are still being wrought on Tywin's family in the books, which is entirely the point.

The Red Wedding certainly proved the craziness of Tywin and Roose as well.

Oye, I'm all out of tolerance for this type of brainless obstinance tonight. Show Cersei is demonstrably depicted as mentally unstable, that's undeniable to any objective observer. Is there complexity there too? Of course! Which is the entire point about Rhaenyra and Alicent. They have conflicting and complex emotions that lead to conflicting and complex behavior. That doesn't make them crazy like blowing up essentially the Martin-verse equivalent of the Vatican to kill your enemies. Or maybe it does - eventually. But for now it just makes them three dimensional characters that are interesting to follow.

Heh, yeah that was a good one. Their portrayal of LBJ was really fun with Clancy Brown - particularly enjoyed them managing to include his penchant for carrying on professional conversations while he was urinating. Their portrayal of JFK did not work so much, even though I otherwise love Michael C. Hall.

I agree that the delivery in the scene came off very stilted. Could have used another take or five to make it come off more natural. But I like how they're including this aspect, and no, it doesn't have to do with just employing the tongue because other people are around - albeit that is arguably always a good reason to use it considering The Help is always listening, often are informants for others, and presumably don't know Valyrian. It actually reminds me of a scene from The Crown where Queen Mary speaks to David/Edward VIII in German. It was a nice touch there too that emphasized both their roots and their elitism that they are NOT like the people they rule.

This sounds like it's coming from someone who has no familiarity with self-destructive behavior (which, of course, good for you!). As for why he would lie to Viserys about fucking Rhaenyra, the show has Alicent explain it in one line. It's obviously not a "grandiose scheme," no. Don't really get how this is still responding to me if it is, but just to be clear, yep, of course.

Yeah that's another thing I forgot to mention. While Viserys was always going to be defensive/in denial when Otto told him about Rhaenyra's escapades, I really liked how he instantly took the opportunity to get Otto's naked ambition off his chest. They're making Viserys a much more adept political player than he's presented in the books.

Heh, quite the reference there. Daemon obviously has more complicated reasons that that though.

I've always wondered about Tinder. Is it just ancient men and 13 year old boys? If so maybe I got a shot...

Like I said, perhaps he has a blind eye for Mysaria, that obviously isn't a new trope. But if that's the case they've done a very bad job establishing such a relationship thus far. In episode two all he does is use her and in this one doesn't seem to give a shit either. Definitely doesn't seem he'd care enough about her to have such a blind spot.

Right, that's my problem. Not that I've ever thought of him as some type of genius, but if we're supposed to believe he has a pulse on the City Watch and goings on with the debauchery of KL - as the premise of the episode explicitly assumes - it's quite the stretch.

9/10, and this time a hard 9. They're doing a great job showing how you can understand virtually every main character's motivations and even behavior, which is exactly how a Martin-verse show should be. Still not quite as good as GoT's first four seasons, but it's getting there. Indeed, the more I think about the episode the more I like it. They're showing not only how the conflicts between the characters all make sense from their respective POV's, but how each character is internally conflicted (well, other than Otto). Just as the famous quote Martin emphasizes subscribes.

Sure this makes sense right now in terms of the show - especially based on the morning after Daemon/Mysaria scene - but it presents some difficulties if we're supposed to believe Daemon trusts her in the future. Perhaps he just has a blind eye when it comes to Mysaria, but if that's the case they need to do a much better job of establishing their relationship.

Oh, glad this was mentioned recently enough for me to see it because I definitely meant to but forgot to mention it. While it makes sense that Mysaria would be hired by Otto while Daemon was away, why would she inform ON Daemon to Otto? Not sure what we're supposed to take from that. If they're suggesting simple jealousy that seems out of character. Or did Daemon want her to inform Otto?