hallam

Welcome. I think you are right on Dany: Why are the Dothraki there in the first place and in such numbers? The only reason I can think of is that they have heard of the woman who rode a dragon and have come in search of her. Now they find that she is a Khalesi and a Khal in her own right. That is the sort of thing the Dothraki can only find to be fucking awesome. They are not there to attack or imprison Danny, they are there to fall at her feet. They ride a horse but she rides a dragon. The book makes this clear because Drogon is there. The show is setting up a cliffhanger. It might well be that some of the deaths are not deaths. In particular Danny: Not dead, not a prisoner Arya: Looked likely to die but is blind Jon: Definitely IS dead but WILL BE is another matter. Resurrection very likely. A pattern? Myrcella: Might be dead, might be that Bronn had been given more antidote Stannis: Perhaps Brienne puts away her lust for revenge if Stannis will help her find Sansa Jamie got a redemption arc. Might Stannis get one? On the other hand, D&D can get away with Jon's resurrection, but three cliffhanger survivals?

On Varys' ability to get in the pyramid. My friend Ira Winkler is ex-NSA and he does physical penetration testing. He can get into pretty much anywhere without much hassle. When they opened up a new airport terminal here, he did pen testing and got in on opening day. He has also penetrated numerous sites that are purportedly top secret. That is his job. I am not anywhere near as good but I can pass fairly easily despite having a foreign accent. If I want to get in a building I buy a pack of cigarettes and hang outside the fire door.

:bawl: :crying: :bawl: Seems my 'burn the witch' resurrection might have a problem. :idea: Mel predicts she will meet Arya again when she comes to take Gendry. So the idea that the watch tie Mel to Jon's pyre and this causes his resurrection might be off. Unless... Blind Arya wargs into ghost, 'sees' Jon dead and attacks the evil Mel. :ninja:

Why not? The NW burn the bodies of the dead since they found out about the WW. So they are certain to try. So either Jon is resurrected before he is burned or he is burned and that is the cause of his resurrection or he is burned to ash. Not burning Jon or burning him off screen would mean people doubting that he was dead.

Maybe they give him the swag bag when he comes back to shoot his funeral pyre scene. Jon is dead and it looks like Kit isn't coming back next season. But they still have to shoot the funeral pyre scene because otherwise nobody will believe he is dead. I have been predicting a sudden change in Jon's appearance for a couple of weeks now. Unless people are lying Jon does not come back in which case why give a damn who his parents were or he comes back and a different actor plays the part. A resurrection scene seems inevitable. But how do D&D do it? Quite possibly in a different way to GRRM because they are very magic averse. D&D have budget for next season. Why would they not shoot the pyre scene already? They have the actor, they have the set. That is a tell there. I am certain there is a scene and there is a reason not to have shot it already, like leaking info. Looking at the whole plot arc of the season, I think it points to a way of selling Jon's resurrection to skeptical viewers: * No Lady Stoneheart because having more than one unStark is stretching credibility. * Mel's Shireen BBQ reminds viewers of the power of fire. * Make viewers really, really hate Mel. The last is the odd bit. Mel is surely an essential part of Jon's rebirth. Why else show her return? [That looks like a pony to me BTW, not a horse and certainly not a battle horse which is what Stannis was asking about]. But Mel is also evil incarnate. If she resurrects Jon, he is going to become evil. Unless of course, she doesn't do it willingly. Here is what I think happens: * Deserters from Stannis report what the red witch did to Shireen. * Alliser Thorne tells the men to put Mel on Jon's pyre * Mel gets the crackle crackle treatment she deserves * Jon is reborn, life for life. Anyone have any other use for Mel plotwise at this point?

Stanntaic nonsense. He is even worse in the books. Davos frees Edric Storm because he knows he will be murdered by Stannis and Mel otherwise. Stop deluding yourself. The Stannatics will probably be disputing this after Stannis burns Shireen in the books. There is some sort of package being delivered from Mel to Stannis round about the time that Stannis is about to burn some cannibals. There are four pyres and three cannibals. Lets see, what you think book Stannis is going to be doing with pole number 4? Oh yes! Hes going to burn.... Patchface. Yes, yes, cos that would make so much dramatic sense and Stannis would never burn Shireen. Sansa is already married to Tyrion the Hand of the Queen and he has an intact set of equipment and isn't responsible for murdering the maester etc. BBC pulled out due to the expense. That is why HBO greenlit GOT. No, the battle was meant to be anticlimatic. It isn't a battle, it is a slaughter. Stannis never has a chance. His murder of Shireen is for nothing. Oh really? You mean all the folk that think Stannis is a really nice stand up guy don't exist? People are still whining that LF wouldn't possibly send Sansa to Winterfell because he is Mr NHG.

Been a while since I read the books. But doesn't Mel send something to Stannis from the wall that we don't know what it is? I had a nasty feeling it was Shireen at the time...

That is why Mel can't resurrect Stannis, she can't put heads back on. They only become important in the books some time after the walk of shame which has only just happened. Varys can still cause them to die but remotely. He doesn't need to do it himself.

1) Cersei throws herself on the mercy of the mother goddess 2) The warging story was silly 3) No, I think it is because Benjen reappears next season. He is the only Stark left from Ned's generation who might know Jon's parentage. 4) You got a big battle two weeks ago, don't be greedy. The shot on the plains made the outcome obvious. 5) Payback is a bitch 6) Cute, I liked that. 7) That is probably because Dr Who had an episode with headless warrior monks not too long ago. I thought the show was epic. Nice to see Stannis get his payback so very soon. The evil man loses everything and an ignominious execution. The idea that Stannis is let off to kill Mel seems silly to me. Stannis does not deserve revenge, he has lost that right. Brienne can slaughter Mel without any help from Stannis. The time has come for him to die.

I thought that. But what for? They don't have an army with them and if they turn round they have to give up Tristane. I have never seen a 20 story castle and I have seen quite a few having grown up opposite one. Masonry does not work above 10 stories, collapses under its own weight. If the snow is thick, it is survivable maybe in a book where a woman squirts shadow baby assassins out of her nether regions. Well, its not exactly Gregor any more, is it? Which shows that Ramsay is cleverer than Littlefinger. Part of the point here was that littlefinger was being over-clever, like people like him often are.

I can only see one way that Kit is out of the show and that is if the reborn Jon looks completely different and they have a different actor for AAR. That would point to R+E=J and some sort of magic being used to change his appearance. I am a little surprised at how terminal the FTW scene was because when Tyrion was in danger we had him almost die and then being saved. That didn't happen this time round, we got a cliffhanger. I thought they might have stopped short of stabby-stabby or showing whatever magical recovery happened. Instead it is an apparently dead cliffhanger. As episodes go, pretty brutal, count the deaths: Myranda Sylese Stannis Jon Myrcella Trant Jaq'ar (possibly an illusion) In addition we have a bunch of cliffhangers Danny meets dothraki without Drogon who is wounded Theon and Sansa Jon Arya blind Most of the deaths are very much deserved but still pretty brutal. I am pretty sure it goes down the same way in the books. Stannis will have a setback, realize his position is hopeless, burn Shireen in one last throw of the dice and have everything turn to shit. Serves the bastard right.

Because the letter was a ruse written by the plotters, it has nothing to do with Ramsay. Probably not. The pink letter would not have worked after the Hardhome battle. Jon would never fall for it surely. So they have to use something else. I think that the choice of Benjen is not accidental though, it is a way to remind folk he is out there, something that is sure to become important in Season 6 when Bran is doing his thing. Oh come on, not enough gore in this episode for you? Not necessarily. Jon might be revived. If Jon is Lyanna's son then Robert is the only plausible father. There was time for a northern wedding in front of the old gods before the battles started. Since Jon's watch has ended, he can claim the crown.

You can, its in the stimulus act. But you have to do it before sunup on June 15th 2015 I love the way the High Sparrow cons her. She thinks she has got away wiv it and then she finds this is only part one. Yeah, thats an error IMO. Though it is possible Balon is already dead but we only find out about it next season. Stannis and Mel are actually responsible for the deaths of all five kings: Renly - shadowbaby Robb - Leech / Red Wedding Tommen - Leech / Purple Wedding Balon - Leech / Falls off walk Stannis - Army runs away / is routed in wake of Shireen's BBQ, Brienne performs coup de grace No, I think it clear that the pink letter in the book is a fake from the other watch members to draw him out so he can be murdered. Olly was a bit of a surprise, waaaay too obvious.

Based on the pacing of this episode, I think we are looking at eight seasons.

Oh so yet another of those utterly pointless scenes turns out to have been utterly pivotal. Anyone think the Bronn scene in the Gift still pointless?

If you noticed half the army departing, would you be trying to stop them or join in?

Yay! Stannis getting just deserts!!!! Had hoped Sylese was going to give him the stabby stabby.

Thats how it always starts. Trust me I know. Chap starts burning a few peasants and after a few months he's into the hard stuff, knights, tradesmen. Unless you intervene they always end up burning the wife and kids. Nah, The fact that he burned anyone for Mel's fake God made it clear that Shireen was going to end up as BBQ. It is obvious in the books. Stannis is the George W. Bush of Westeros. He thinks that he is dah man and dah decider but he is really just the puppet of his evil sidekick Melissandre Cheney.

And until that time, the Stannatics can STFU about D&D getting it wrong. If a book 6 comes out and if Stannis is not to blame then the Stannatics can complain. But ranting on for pages and pages about the 'stupidity' of D&D when they don't know the facts only proves that they are the mental midgets here, not the showrunners. Of course it has to be Stannis who makes the decision. Otherwise Mel would have to off him and make herself queen. While it is quite possible GRRM will do something else in the books it is very very unlikely and most folk who look at the show ant the book objectively would still say D&D got it right and it was GRRM making the mistake. Fortunately, that is a really, really remote possibility. The show runners are very good but almost nobody would say they are better than GRRM at causing characters to die in horrible ways. In fact lets make a list of shocking events in the books that the show has dropped: 1) The bestiality in Ramsay's rape of Jeyne Poole 2) The Frey Bentos pies 3) Tyrion's participation in the gang rape of Tysha. The only thing the showrunners have done to make GoT 'worse' than the books was to have Ramsay marry a real noble girl rather than a disposable peasant and show Robb's wife getting killed.

Well he already murdered his brother with the shadow baby. But the murder of Shireen is unambiguous. But isn't that the point of the conflict now? The battle for Winterfell will be fought between a kin slayer and an oath breaker who murdered the King he swore service.

The Stannatics should give it up. Stan had to burn Shireen now because it was his only option left. There was nothing to be gained from waiting apart from losing more men to desertion and starvation. Stann has food left for a few weeks at most. It is now or never if he is going to take Winterfell. Davos understands the score. Without the support of the Nights Watch, the army is finished and there is no way he can expect Jon to give that support. Stannaticism was always odious. Mel's means have always been pure evil and we have only her word that her objectives are noble.

I think people expecting that were mistaking GRRM showing that resurrection was possible in his world with people showing that Mel is going to do it. I find the argument that Jon must be Lyanna's son on the basis of his looks to be utterly unconvincing because GRRM has shown us multiple ways of changing looks. Mel does it, the Faceless Men do it, even wilding wargs do it. Face changing is a part of GRRM's world. But the fact that he has given us three examples does not mean that he is limited to those. Mel is the personification of evil. AAR is the personification of good. So Mel cannot raise AAR, it would be stupid.

You folk really don't deserve this show. And I don't mean that nicely. You no idea what the point of those scenes might turn out to be. Just as the people whining about 'showing Loras is Gaaaay' in episode 1 had no idea what the point was going to be. In each episode there are scenes that deliver an immediate payoff and there are scenes that are world building and plot developing. Dorne is a plot development thread in this season. The payoff won't come till next season. Its because of you folk that Shireen had to burn this season. If you folk weren't so whiny when you don't get an immediate payoff, Shireen could be alive today, playing with her dolls and reading the dance of dragons. But noooo, you folk have to get to the payoff immediately, no patience.

You have to have patience. It is clear that the Dorne plot is building up to something that becomes significant in book 6. As with Tyrion's trip to Valyria, D&D have very different restrictions. GRRM can have a character tell us about Dorne in dialog and it is exactly the same as a visit by a POV character. D&D have to show us which means they have to have a major character go to Dorne. GRRM doesn't send one, so D&D have to. Jamie's riverlands plot in the books is a bit pointless and so is Sansa's lemoncake plot. They made a good call on both.

Sansa might be able to save Ghost. In the books, Ghost might well get killed during FTW because Jon is losing his Stark identity and being revealed as AAR. In the show the same thing can happen but with one major difference - Sansa is returning to the Stark family and gets Ghost in place of Lady. Book Sansa hasn't earned her wolf back yet. Just one? The Baratheons are already there. We know Tommen and Myrcella will die ahead of Cersei. And Stannis will get his comeupance sooner or later. The Lannisters have only Martyn and Tyrion left to carry on the family name. Lancel has become a monk fanatic. The Boltons are down to Ramsay and Fat 'Pie meat' Walder. I don't think it likely either is gong to live very long. House Aryn? Well thats been reduced to SweetRobin and Harry the Heir. House Whent? Already gone. House Tyrell? All they have left is Loras and he is gay and apparently mortally wounded in the books, in the show he is gay and apparently about to be executed by the faith. House Frey? Likely to have issue but certain to be attainted if the Starks ever get back to power in the north. Every time book Stannis said something of the sort, I thought it was even more likely she was going to die by his hand. He protests too much. The if I die put my daughter on the throne order was replaced by the tender moment when he discussed the greyscale. I thought that was a good idea. But... think about it, if they could pump out 15 episodes a season they would do exactly that. It takes them a whole year to produce just the 10.