Lyanna<3Rhaegar

I know. It's crazy to me. She is a child who has been put through a very traumatic experience. Not an adult that is aiming for high status & control, willing to step on anyone to get it. That's Petyr. Of course she has made mistakes, every character in the series, as well as every person on the Earth has made them also. I understand some of her mistakes led to innocent deaths but she killed no one. She lied by omission - said she didn't remember on one occasion & went to her Queen & future mother-in-law with some information she shouldn't have. She did not want Lady or her father & his men killed, she did not want to be a prisoner of the crown. This was not her intention. I'm sure she learned this lesson & won't make the same mistakes again.

Evidence please. Any shred of evidence that Sansa wants this at all? Let alone that she sees him & Harry as the only path to high social status? She could have had high social status married to Tyrion, as the Lady of Winterfell if that's what she wanted right? She wanted Willas & puppies. I swear, sometimes I think I'm reading a different series than others.

Well, that hasn't happened in the main series yet but yes, lets all have a moment of silence for poor Raff, who was a victim of Dark Arya's blood thirsty revenge. Can't think of a better man for it to happen to.

Who has she killed to serve her insatiable want of revenge? I can't think of anyone she has killed in revenge as of yet. The insurance man was on orders of the FM, Dareon (right or wrong) was for deserting the NW. It is unfathomable to me, with all the heinous crimes that go on in this series that people are so upset about Dareon & the insurance salesman.

I genuinely hope so. I hope she enacts revenge on every, single, person that partook in her families demise.

Would you please explain to me how the two things are related? Why Sam smelling fish in Arya is an indication of Arya murdering a bunch of people? Also, I don't recall Sam ever meeting Arya.

We've talked about everything else. Everything about this series has been dissected & redissected. We are bored..

Is there a dedicated place to discuss Fire & Blood, the book? I feel like there must be but I cannot find it.

She doesn't have any skills of the FM yet. Last we left her she was blind, remember? Where is the evidence of her mental illness or that she has lost her morality?

Yeah, I'm not sure about that either. He was there on orders from the watch but we haven't gotten much info in regard to extradition practices in westeros, that I'm aware of. Yes, my point exactly.

Oh, I agree. All murder is heinous, I just cannot call it one of the most heinous. Yeah, she doesn't have any legal authority. His life is forfeit for desertion either way but, I agree, it is not up to her to enact the sentence. haha! Yes! Exactly.

I disagree. This is a series full of heinous acts. Ramsay flays people alive for god's sake. I don't understand how these are the two most heinous murders in the story. Neither are fickle about justice, they want justice to the extent they are willing to enact it themselves. If Dareon was a victim of injustice it was his lord to blame, not Arya. Yeah Arya killed him because it was her "assignment" It's not her best moment, certainly, but not near the most heinouse murder in the story. Oh come now, she isn't the slightest bit insane. She is troubled for sure. She has experienced quite a bit of trauma at quite a young age. What evidence do you have to suggest she is insane? LOL Idk what to even say about that. Arya is pretty calculated in her revenge. I don't see her attacking a mob of innocent people. Maybe a mob of Freys.

Agreed.

Exactly. Besides the fact that medicine & dosing are not Sansa's responsibility. If the Maesters give it & tell her to give it to him, that's hardly her fault.

You're joking right? SW never said it happened. You know that very well.

Your quote says otherwise. He explicitly tells her "You're safe with me" directly after Sansa thinking about wishing she had Lady & presumably looking worried/afraid, prompting Joff to tell her she is safe with him. So while his only stated intention is not to protect her, he also wants to "see what it is", he does say it. At any rate, getting some detail about the book wrong is not fan-fic. There isn't a person on this forum, including you, who hasn't mixed things up or misremembered from time to time. If that's fan-fic Lord help us.

Well, to begin with context matters. SW was stating Sansa could have told the truth & look what the truth sounds like. That doesn't fit any definition of fan-fanction. That's not an opinion, you're just wrong. Secondly, how does that quote show Joff's stated aim wasn't to keep Sansa safe? Tbf, I don't recall Joff stating that. I do remember him chastising Mycah for hitting "his lady's sister" either way though, the quote doesn't negate anything & certainly isn't fan-fic. If Joff didn't state that, it was an oversight on SW's part.

I think you may be confused about what fan-fic is.

I don't know. Petyr's ambitions for Alayne to marry Harry the heir are all for nought if Sweet Robin lives to a ripe old age, right?

I agree. Joff thought he was playing the knight in shining armor, he is just a douche & has no idea how to be a real gentleman. I can't lay the blame at Arya's feet any more than I can Sansa's though. Arya was defending her friend who was being wrongfully attacked.

Good. Please show me where I posted fanfic & I'll glady answer what the point was.

*sigh* don't get offended when you were offensive first. You asked what SW's point was when they put forth the story Sansa would be telling to Cersei & Robert. I chimed in with what I believed to be their point....

I'm not sure what you're getting worked up about but you said, not once, but twice that Sansa was the only Stark to have their wolf killed. After I pointed out, not once, but twice, that isn't true you moved the goal posts. I'm not sure where the misunderstanding is here. Springwatch said, basically - "you're right Sansa could have told the story but listen to how the story is told" & I agreed with that. You responded with what Joff told Cersei saying that isn't what happened. I'm telling you I wasn't saying what Joff said is the truth, I'm saying the story told by SW, set forth as what Sansa would have been telling, is the truth.

I think I've said (at least once, maybe more) that she could have told the truth. I have never once said her only option was to lie. I'm saying I understand why she lied, I understand that she didn't have a good option & that she was a child & picked what she thought was best. I certainly never said morality didn't matter. I'm just willing to give Sansa the benefit of the doubt here considering we know she isn't evil, we know she doesn't want to cause harm to her family, we know she was in a tough position, & we know she was a child... Of course you're free to stop responding at any time you wish. I have never said morality is determined by outcome. For all your condescending remarks you would think you would learn to read better. I'm not arguing that the morality is determined by outcome. I was pointing out what I believe to be Springwatch's point. You insinuated the point was the Sansa could have been worse, which I don't believe was their point at all. I was trying to offer some insight.

That isn't what you said, that's not what I argued with. You said she was the only one to have her wolf killed because she was the only one who behaved dishonorably. I didn't say what Joff said happened is what happened, I said what Springwatch said Sansa could have told Robert & Cersei is what happened.