Aegon and the Iron Bank Debt

[Drth Fel]

I had somewhat similar discussion about this on the forum before. Numbers are just one of many factors, just like the competence of the general.

There are many many other factors you are forgetting, like the competence of the lower commanders, the terrain and weather if said army is experienced in it and equipped to deal with it, the competence of the soldiers, their arms, their supply, the time they had to rest before the battle.

Psychological state and belief in the cause are extremely important (tends to be low among sell swords).

The competence of intelligence gathering, and distribution, communications, how strong is the chain of command (it's a lot harder to control and maneuver dozen of 'armies" who have little experience of working together and who's leaders are not trained in that, against a cohesive force).

The terrain and it's relation to the composition of each force, and so on.

I am not some great battle historian, so I cannot refute or accept that being numerically inferior was the deciding factor in most such battles.

However when I gloss in my mind over some historical battles I remember I think you're wrong. Though that depends on what you call numerical inferiority (if as steep as 2:1 then you might be correct). But otherwise I don't believe the correlation is anywhere as strong as you suggest.

Speaking as a soldier, the US Military will not initiate an attack unless they possess at least a 3:1 advantage in conventional warfare. This does not take into account SOCOM, however. SOCOM is a force multiplier. That is the most technologically advanced military in the world. For a smaller force to defeat a larger force, you depend upon discipline, mobility, technological superiority, highly developed C&C, and control of the battlespace. Controlling the battlespace includes terrain, air dominance, arrangement of forces, and most importantly, disrupting the enemy's C&C. As we saw from the last chapters in aDwD, the GC, despite having a haphazard amphibious landing, reorganized themselves quickly and proceeded to make significant territorial gains. They also seemed to have captured Storms End (according to sample chapter). The GC possesses technological superiority, I.e. Superior bows and bowmen; discipline, mobility, disruption of C&C, and choice of battlespace. Whether these advantages continue is debatable since the IT is now aware of their attacks. It would be foolish of JC and fAegon to ignore IB, however, after possessing military advantages. If you look to American history, the post-Revolution American government struggled to pay its debts and the state's debts. Thus, other countries did not take us seriously. The new Constitutional Government consolidated all state and national debt, under Alexander Hamilton, and proceeded to begin paying it off. This gained the US much legitimacy in the eyes of the European banks. It was also part of the reason, post-War of 1812, that the US and Britain began their special relationship: the US was making good on all it's loans. This encouraged the British government to invest heavily into our growing industrial base and and infrastructure. Much of our railroad system was built using British investors. The IB seems to occupy the same position and Great Britain with regards to its economic strength. Bravos was a sea power; ditto, GB. GB was the only free-trade nation in Europe in 19th century; ditto, Bravos. The center of economic activity in Europe was London, backed by the £ and Bank of England. Bravos is the most stable of the 9FC and the IB is stronger than all others combined. GB opposed slavery beginning in the 19th century. Bravos opposes slave trade. Countries that took loans from BoE paid them back or became colonies. Princes that withhold IB payment aren't princes much longer. It would be height of folly for JonCon and fAegon to gain the throne, however temporarily, only to fob off IB.

[Roddy the Ruin]

Im going to copy paste a post i made on Stannis' ability at war.

I would say Stannis Baratheon is one of, if not the best battle commander.

sorry E-RO but I would say Robb Stark is the best Battle Commander in the series, Stannis is however the best General and Naval Commander in the series.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

sorry E-RO but I would say Robb Stark is the best Battle Commander in the series, Stannis is however the best General and Naval Commander in the series.

Lets make a thread on Battle commanders. Robb, Stannis and Randyll in top three i bet.

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

prolly, but we haven't really seen that deuch Randyll do anything but being an asshole to Brienne, so as far as we know his only skill is bad mouthing women

Randyll did beat Robert at Ashford and also smashed the northern host although they lost more men than northerners.

[Roddy the Ruin]

Randyll did beat Robert at Ashford and also smashed the northern host although they lost more men than northerners.

forgot about the first one but weren't the Northerners intentionally thrown at him by Roose with the intention of Randyll winning?

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

forgot about the first one but weren't the Northerners intentionally thrown at him by Roose with the intention of Randyll winning?

Yeah they were, Roose send them over there but there was no connection between Randyll and Roose. Roose sent them with the intention that they will be intercepted but didn't expected Randyll to be there.

[A Duke]

Speaking as a soldier, the US Military will not initiate an attack unless they possess at least a 3:1 advantage in conventional warfare. This does not take into account SOCOM, however. SOCOM is a force multiplier. That is the most technologically advanced military in the world. For a smaller force to defeat a larger force, you depend upon discipline, mobility, technological superiority, highly developed C&C, and control of the battlespace. Controlling the battlespace includes terrain, air dominance, arrangement of forces, and most importantly, disrupting the enemy's C&C. As we saw from the last chapters in aDwD, the GC, despite having a haphazard amphibious landing, reorganized themselves quickly and proceeded to make significant territorial gains. They also seemed to have captured Storms End (according to sample chapter). The GC possesses technological superiority, I.e. Superior bows and bowmen; discipline, mobility, disruption of C&C, and choice of battlespace. Whether these advantages continue is debatable since the IT is now aware of their attacks. It would be foolish of JC and fAegon to ignore IB, however, after possessing military advantages. If you look to American history, the post-Revolution American government struggled to pay its debts and the state's debts. Thus, other countries did not take us seriously. The new Constitutional Government consolidated all state and national debt, under Alexander Hamilton, and proceeded to begin paying it off. This gained the US much legitimacy in the eyes of the European banks. It was also part of the reason, post-War of 1812, that the US and Britain began their special relationship: the US was making good on all it's loans. This encouraged the British government to invest heavily into our growing industrial base and and infrastructure. Much of our railroad system was built using British investors. The IB seems to occupy the same position and Great Britain with regards to its economic strength. Bravos was a sea power; ditto, GB. GB was the only free-trade nation in Europe in 19th century; ditto, Bravos. The center of economic activity in Europe was London, backed by the £ and Bank of England. Bravos is the most stable of the 9FC and the IB is stronger than all others combined. GB opposed slavery beginning in the 19th century. Bravos opposes slave trade. Countries that took loans from BoE paid them back or became colonies. Princes that withhold IB payment aren't princes much longer. It would be height of folly for JonCon and fAegon to gain the throne, however temporarily, only to fob off IB.

Well, What the USA doctrine states is not always equivalent to what happens in the middle of a war. With all due respect (and there's lots) for the American army. In most of the wars you've fought in recent decades the USA had a huge superiority in mobility and intelligence (not to mention Technology) which enabled you to choose your battles (generally speaking). The objectives were also such that (again broadly speaking) allowed for disengagement when the situation was not favorable (though thanks to said mobility usually quick reinforcements was enough).

When the forces are better matched it's a lot more difficult to have that 3:1 advantage, Korea is a good example, early battles against the Japanese in WW2 are another

(Guadalcanal was about 2:1, Burma campaign, about 3:2).

I agree with a lot of the rest of what you said. There are some things that I can't agree with simply because I am not knowledgeable enough (In those cases I prefer not to formulate an opinion, yet), so thank you for the information, I enjoyed reading it.

In an unrelated question, where are you serving, are you in combat duty (not sure how it's called in English, but I hope you understand). Just wondering, if you're not comfortable with answering that's alright

[BryndenTullys#1fan]

Let's not forget that the Tyrells can gather upwards of 80K of troops and they have a fleet.

fAegon and the GC are 10K at most.

Terrain Battle Commanders (no dragons): Tarly then Tywin

Naval Commanders: Euron Greyjoy then Stannis

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

Let's not forget that the Tyrells can gather upwards of 80K of troops and they have a fleet.

fAegon and the GC are 10K at most.

Terrain Battle Commanders (no dragons): Tarly then Tywin

Naval Commanders: Euron Greyjoy then Stannis

Check out the Record Sheet i made with the advise and suggestions of few posters. Euron by no means is a better commander than Stannis.

[BryndenTullys#1fan]

The Lannisport raid and the Shield Islands were all Euron success. Victarion just executed the battle plan. The only thing I'm fuzzy about is if Euron went missing during the Greyjoy Rebellion before Stannis demolished Victarion or after.

There are many times in the text where Eurons exceptional naval skills are mentioned.

this is getting off topic so I'll apologize to the thread creator

[Stan the Man Baratheon]

The Lannisport raid and the Shield Islands were all Euron success. Victarion just executed the battle plan. The only thing I'm fuzzy about is if Euron went missing during the Greyjoy Rebellion before Stannis demolished Victarion or after.

There are many times in the text where Eurons exceptional naval skills are mentioned.

this is getting off topic so I'll apologize to the thread creator

Hence we can discuss in that thread. Euron was there because in the later years he was banished by Balon for raping Victarion's wife. Execution is also important remember that, you can make a grand plan and if you have poor executors, that plan will fail.