Daendrew Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 "Jon tells Sam of a recurring dream he has of Winterfell. He dreams he is walking in a long, empty hall in the castle, his voice echoing around him and no one is answering. He is looking for someone, but he isn't sure who, sometimes it is his father, sometimes Robb, or Arya, or even Benjen. But he never finds anyone, the castle is always empty. Even the ravens are gone, and the stables are full of bones. It scares him, and he runs around looking for someone. Then he finds himself in front of the door to the crypts, and he knows he has to go down there, but he doesn't want to. He's afraid of what is waiting for him. Not the old Kings of Winter, but something else. He screams that he is not a Stark, that it isn't his place, but it is no good and he feels he has to go down, so he starts, with no torch to light his way. It gets darker and darker, until he wants to scream, and then he wakes up." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindchap Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 "A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - Littlefinger Ned made a scuplture of Lyanna to place in the crypt, something normally reserved only for kings. This is because she was actually a queen. snip But he also made one for his brother, which was not traditional either, only the Lords had statues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoolishOwl Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 That's the horn that would bring down the Wall,? And they didn't want to bring down the Wall because then you have nothing to hide behind any more? Why even create a horn to do that if there's Others on the other side that can invade Westeros? I don't really get that part. Asking questions like these leads innocent people to Heresy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Could you elaborate on what you mean about Val? Are you talking about the 'similarities' between her and Night's King's Other queen? Anyway I like the idea of Mance as the Night's King. Melisandre really isn't as insightful as she would have everyone believe. her prophecies are really just guessing games -- she has no idea what they actually might mean and she's grasping in the dark. I like this! It's definitely likely that they buried both the Night's King & the Horn in the deepest parts of the crypts where no one will venture, and probably in a unmarked grave since they struck his name from history. I Do not think Val is something other than she is, however, The wording that Mance uses when talking about his Queen was said in the third person, and we have Mance going to Winterfell and looking for the crypts.... The Pink Letter... Which I believe is Roose.... but if Mance IS the Night's King....The case for him writing the Pink Letter becomes a lot stronger as the motives would add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 George doesn't mention and repeat a fact, often word for word in 4 of 5 books if it didn't have a big role. The harp of a dead man plays no tune, unless it is the song of ice as fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I Do not think Val is something other than she is, however, The wording that Mance uses when talking about his Queen was said in the third person I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this? That wasn't third person. Mance gave her a fond smile. "It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." The story itself is written in third person omniscient limited POV, but Mance's statement here was spoken in first person -- if it was third person, he would have been referring to himself by his own name rather than "I" ("It's a wise woman Mance has found. A true queen"). Did you mean that you thought he was actually talking about Val because he hadn't mentioned Dalla by name? eta for my mix-up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Whore Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 My quote function is being stupid, but in response to the below quote, he can't. He gave it up to Quhuru Mo, along with all the books he brought. I hope the horn comes to nothing and that Sam just slaps some fixer over the cracks and turns it into a drinking horn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxman Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I don't think Mance would seek a horn that collapses the Wall, if one even exists. I expect he told that tale to rally the more violent wildlings who were too short sighted to see the greater long term threat. Getting them on his side was mutually beneficial, and feeding them the hope of destroying the Wall and massacring everyone south of the haunted forest kept them motivated; though I doubt he would have done that, given the opportunity. Mance is a smart enough guy to realize how ultimately detrimental to his own cause destroying the Wall would be. If they could not achieve military victory, or negotiate terms to gain passage south, I think he would have taken his favorite wildlings, climbed over the wall, and counted himself lucky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mourneblade Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this? That wasn't third person. Mance gave her a fond smile. "It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." The story itself is written in third person omniscient POV, but Mance's statement here was spoken in first person -- if it was third person, he would have been referring to himself by his own name rather than "I" ("It's a wise woman Mance has found. A true queen"). Did you mean that you thought he was actually talking about Val because he hadn't mentioned Dalla by name?No however the way it was worded could mean he is talking about someone else... Say a queen with white skin and blue eyes... It is a stretch for sure... But the more I re read mance... The weirder his actions are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost's Shadow Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Asking questions like these leads innocent people to Heresy. Never. Thanks anyway. ;-) No however the way it was worded could mean he is talking about someone else... Say a queen with white skin and blue eyes... It is a stretch for sure... But the more I re read mance... The weirder his actions are. I think Val's 'original' eye colour was grey? And George has been known to make a mistake here and there, even in eye colours and gender changes for horses, etc. Even if she was a blonde with blue eyes, that doesn't make her automatically evil. There's bound to be others like those around in Westeros and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Smokin a Blunt Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by this? That wasn't third person. Mance gave her a fond smile. "It's a wise woman I've found. A true queen." The story itself is written in third person omniscient POV, but Mance's statement here was spoken in first person -- if it was third person, he would have been referring to himself by his own name rather than "I" ("It's a wise woman Mance has found. A true queen"). Did you mean that you thought he was actually talking about Val because he hadn't mentioned Dalla by name?the books are written in third person limited POV, if it were omniscient we would have access to all the characters' thoughts, not just the POV's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghosts in winterfell Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 the books are written in third person limited POV, if it were omniscient we would have access to all the characters' thoughts, not just the POV's. :blushing: Oops, you're right. I had thought the limited meant we only had access to a single character's POV rather than the multiple POVs that we have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ckal Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 WHAT IF: The Crypt of Winterfell only has remains of long dead corpses and bones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oursisthefury69 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Not until Sam waddles down there. And I could definitely see Mance thinking the Horns down there, as well as actually use it if he ever found the real one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool of a Book Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I'm dredging this up because I think Mance wanted to inspect the actual tombs and remains, and not necessarily to recover a treasure or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daendrew Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 To release the spirits by dredging it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 If he's looking for the horn it could be to destroy it. Remember Ygritte's talking about Jon having Wildling blood? Well if Mance is descended from Bael the Bard (or thinks he might be) he has a connection to the Starks. Not a blood connection, unless there was a second baby who went back over the wall with Bael, but a connection nonetheless. He also was married to a woman who had special knowledge, and may have heard Dalla tell some interesting tales about the Starks of old. Could be he wants to see what all is true and what is just legend. Maybe he senses something about Jon not being who they think he is (Dalla or Val could have picked up on that and said something to Mance), and is looking for clues. Maybe he's looking for Lightbringer. Or maybe he's just a creep who likes being around dead people. ETA: we've never had a Mance POV, he could have prophetic dreams we don't know about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westeros Luftwaffe Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 "Jon tells Sam of a recurring dream he has of Winterfell. He dreams he is walking in a long, empty hall in the castle, his voice echoing around him and no one is answering. He is looking for someone, but he isn't sure who, sometimes it is his father, sometimes Robb, or Arya, or even Benjen. But he never finds anyone, the castle is always empty. Even the ravens are gone, and the stables are full of bones. It scares him, and he runs around looking for someone. Then he finds himself in front of the door to the crypts, and he knows he has to go down there, but he doesn't want to. He's afraid of what is waiting for him. Not the old Kings of Winter, but something else. He screams that he is not a Stark, that it isn't his place, but it is no good and he feels he has to go down, so he starts, with no torch to light his way. It gets darker and darker, until he wants to scream, and then he wakes up."You know, they say some Targaryens have prophetic dreams.......the fact he has this dream consistently has been something I've wondered about before many times.I think Jon's return to Winterfell some day will be very very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cry_Havoc Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Also hidden in the crypts of Winterfell:--Six dragon eggs--Rheagar's Last Will & Testament--A case of Dornish Whiskey--TPWWP--An advance copy of TWOW--Benjen Stark--Bran's assassin--WaldoI call dibs on the Dornish Whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingOfTheDirewolves Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 In the crypts of Winterfell also waits: -Plot twists that might make Gumby scream -Lyanna rocking and knitting sweaters for her children -The second marker and directions to the Canyon of the Crescent Moon -A secret library with a few handy tips on making Valyrian steel -Oddly dressed Wights from the Thriller video -A prototype for a modern remake of Final Fantasy VII -The secret of Arbor Gold and why it is so tasty -a Stargate complete with active ZPV -a functional TARDIS -One copy of Aristotle's Poetics next to a corpse wearing only one glove -three casks of Amantillado -Choice pieces of Vorlon and Shadow technology -Whale bones that look like they were shattered against something along with a random potted plant -Syrio Forel -Ned -Howland Reed -Fans of Roose Bolton -Arthur Dayne -Aerys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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