How to conquer Westeros with Daenerys' potential army.

[TallTyrion]

I though it was 8000 but it doesn't really matter if it's 6000 or less. There will be causalities from Meereen any ways but that loss can be covered with sell swords bought with Iron Bank gold. The unsullied would be no use in taking castles so I would hold them in reserve for those two engagements.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

They are assumptions of force. I can edit the numbers; won't change the essence of this thread. Or were you referring to post #17?

I was referring to you, in your OP, giving Dany 2,000 more Unsullied than the absolute maximum she could possibly have.

I get what you're trying to do, but again, there is virtually no way to know for sure how many forces GRRM will give Dany when she arrives. He could sink half her ships. He could deny her a dragon or two. He could wipe out half the Unsullied just in the Battle of Meereen, which will still need to be fought, by the way. As such, I couldn't even come close to reasonably answering this question, because there is far, far, far too much that's still in flux. I am, however, pretty confident that Dany won't get to Westeros with the entirety of what she appears to have now.

[Starspear]

I was referring to you, in your OP, giving Dany 2,000 more Unsullied than the absolute maximum she could possibly have.

I get what you're trying to do, but again, there is virtually no way to know for sure how many forces GRRM will give Dany when she arrives. He could sink half her ships. He could deny her a dragon or two. He could wipe out half the Unsullied just in the Battle of Meereen, which will still need to be fought, by the way. As such, I couldn't even come close to reasonably answering this question, because there is far, far, far too much that's still in flux. I am, however, pretty confident that Dany won't get to Westeros with the entirety of what she appears to have now.

Well, I can be quite imaginative and come up with an infinite amount of permutations post ADWD.

GRRM can have Drogon look at the horse they're eating together and decide that he's still hungry and eat Daenerys right there.

But as the discussion of the potency (or lack of) Unsullied was not focusing on usage... this thread I feel will give a better opportunity to pit military units against one another.

Terrain, hearts and minds, and all that good stuff can be thrown into the equation.

Re: Meereen. It can also not be fought. That's why the question is asked with frozen (relatively frozen) assumptions.

As an aside, my suggestion is that she steps into Valyria and find old-tech and ressources that might help her cause. If she dies in the fires... well... worth the gamble to rule the world, especially when you are fire-proof (she's fire-proof; I don't buy the miracle and continuous ability to withstand fire). What else she gonna do? Sitting on the Iron Throne is not going to be much more different than sitting in Meereen. I wonder where the food is tastier...

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

(she's fire-proof; I don't buy the miracle and continuous ability to withstand fire).

I'm sure the author would be interested to know this, since he's on the record as saying it's a one-time thing. I'm also curious as to why you think she had burn scars at the end of ADWD, if she is, in fact, fireproof.

In any case, I don't really see the point in debating something that's pretty much impossible to accurately gauge at this point, so I'll leave you to it. Were it not for your frankly egregious miscount of the Unsullied, I'd've just stayed out of this entire thing. :)

[Starspear]

I'm sure the author would be interested to know this, since he's on the record as saying it's a one-time thing. I'm also curious as to why you think she had burn scars at the end of ADWD, if she is, in fact, fireproof.

In any case, I don't really see the point in debating something that's pretty much impossible to accurately gauge at this point, so I'll leave you to it. Were it not for your frankly egregious miscount of the Unsullied, I'd've just stayed out of this entire thing. :)

Lol. Yes, I shall flagellate myself for the slight mistake in accounting.

I know what GRRM said... that's precisely what I was referring to. Great writer, but that was a lame cop-out. And HBO, despite misgivings that people might have, rectified that.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I know what GRRM said... that's precisely what I was referring to. Great writer, but that was a lame cop-out. And HBO, despite misgivings that people might have, rectified that.

Actually I think GRRM got it precisely right: It was miraculous and it won't happen again. HBO's the one that screwed it up by giving people the wrong idea. No idea what they were thinking there.

[OldGimletEye]

Well, I can be quite imaginative and come up with an infinite amount of permutations post ADWD.

GRRM can have Drogon look at the horse they're eating together and decide that he's still hungry and eat Daenerys right there.

But as the discussion of the potency (or lack of) Unsullied was not focusing on usage... this thread I feel will give a better opportunity to pit military units against one another.

Terrain, hearts and minds, and all that good stuff can be thrown into the equation.

Re: Meereen. It can also not be fought. That's why the question is asked with frozen (relatively frozen) assumptions.

As an aside, my suggestion is that she steps into Valyria and find old-tech and ressources that might help her cause. If she dies in the fires... well... worth the gamble to rule the world, especially when you are fire-proof (she's fire-proof; I don't buy the miracle and continuous ability to withstand fire). What else she gonna do? Sitting on the Iron Throne is not going to be much more different than sitting in Meereen. I wonder where the food is tastier...

I could actually see Dany getting somewhere in between 25,000 to 50,000 troops into Westeros, which I don't think is far from the numbers you are suggesting, since I think Martin wants to make it look like Dany has a legitimate shot at taking Westeros. Since her Dragons are going to be no where near as potent and deadly as Aegon's, she'll need quite a few troops to have a decent shot at taking Westeros.

Where I get irritated is when some of her more ardent fans claim that she will crush everyone she will meet in battle and when they claim, in additon to her military forces, she'll transport all her freedman from Slaver's Bay too.

[Starspear]

Actually I think GRRM got it precisely right: It was miraculous and it won't happen again. HBO's the one that screwed it up by giving people the wrong idea. No idea what they were thinking there.

I'm not a fan of Draco ex machina. Once you start, why stop?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm not a fan of Draco ex machina. Once you start, why stop?

He's trying to illustrate that the dragon-hatching was a freak, once-in-a-million occurrence, not that Dany has superpowers.

[Starspear]

He's trying to illustrate that the dragon-hatching was a freak, once-in-a-million occurrence, not that Dany has superpowers.

That's not a small freak accident. Having lightning hit a tree, then subsequently fall on a random passerby, might be a freak, once-in-a-million occurence.

Hatching dragons after stepping into a funeral pyre to self-immolate in an apparent suicide and claiming that it's a freak occurence... nah, that's just contrived.

Author creates a bloodline that is of dragon blood (figuratively), and then has a member of said bloodline hatch dragons (literally)... then author claims that "hey folks, that was a miracle"

He can say it; but I don't have to buy it.

Either have her burn in the fire and goodbye Dany... or have some sensible logic (within context of the world). I.e. Targaryens have actual dragonblood that explains the fire resistance.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

That's not a small freak accident. Having lightning hit a tree, then subsequently fall on a random passerby, might be a freak, once-in-a-million occurence.

Hatching dragons after stepping into a funeral pyre to self-immolate in an apparent suicide... nah, that's just contrived.

Author creates a bloodline that is of dragon blood (figuratively), and then has a member of said bloodline hatch dragons (literally)... then author claims that "hey folks, that was a miracle"

He can say it; but I don't have to buy it.

Either have her burn in the fire and goodbye Dany... or have some sensible logic (within context of the world). I.e. Targaryens have actual dragonblood that explains the fire resistance.

Agree to disagree, I guess. I find his explanation more plausible in the context of the story than giving Dany an actual superpower that virtually no one else in the family has ever actually had. I don't see how that is any less of a contrivance either, actually.

[juanml82]

He's trying to illustrate that the dragon-hatching was a freak, once-in-a-million occurrence, not that Dany has superpowers.

Of course she has superpowers:

She was contemplating suicide after marrying Drogo, has a magical dragon dream which alters her both physically and mentally

Walks into a pyre with three dragon eggs, hatches the dragons and survives with only the loss of her hair. Oh, and she walked in without ever reading or acquiring any knowledge about what was about to pass.

Now, these aren't Superman-like, always on, controllable superpowers, but she has powers.

[Starspear]

Agree to disagree, I guess. I find his explanation more plausible in the context of the story than giving Dany an actual superpower that virtually no one else in the family has ever actually had. I don't see how that is any less of a contrivance either, actually.

Agreed (to disagree). Maybe he made a mistake. Went to print. Then had to come up with an excuse. I can close my eyes and drink the kool-aid as the series offers plenty else. Or dragonblood: oh yeah. ;)

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Of course she has superpowers:

She was contemplating suicide after marrying Drogo, has a magical dragon dream which alters her both physically and mentally

Walks into a pyre with three dragon eggs, hatches the dragons and survives with only the loss of her hair. Oh, and she walked in without ever reading or acquiring any knowledge about what was about to pass.

Now, these aren't Superman-like, always on, controllable superpowers, but she has powers.

If it is a non-repeateable event, then it's not a superpower. It's a miraculous event. Which is exactly how the author has framed it: a one-time miraculous event that should not be construed as Dany always being fireproof. If she were always fireproof, that would constitute a superpower. But she's not, so it doesn't.

Not to be pedantic here, but seriously.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Agreed (to disagree). Maybe he made a mistake. Went to print. Then had to come up with an excuse. I can close my eyes and drink the kool-aid as the series offers plenty else. Or dragonblood: oh yeah. ;)

Perhaps. I'll always take the author's canon over the show's, though. Disagreeing with his position doesn't make his position any less canon.

[Starspear]

If it is a non-repeateable event, then it's not a superpower. It's a miraculous event. Which is exactly how the author has framed it: a one-time miraculous event that should not be construed as Dany always being fireproof. If she were always fireproof, that would constitute a superpower. But she's not, so it doesn't.

Not to be pedantic here, but seriously.

Well then we fall into the risk of losing the suspension of disbelief (which is subjective of course).

And seeing that the world has Children of the forest, the House of the Undying, Zombies... not sure why it's detrimental to the story to have her not have a "superpower."

[Starspear]

Perhaps. I'll always take the author's canon over the show's, though. Disagreeing with his position doesn't make his position any less canon.

This is true.... but I also don't buy into midi-lidi-chlorians.

This ultimately could devolve into a debate between Art and the Artist... but as we agreed, to each his own.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Well then we fall into the risk of losing the suspension of disbelief (which is subjective of course).

And seeing that the world has Children of the forest, the House of the Undying, Zombies... not sure why it's detrimental to the story to have her not have a "superpower."

Don't ask me. I'm not the one who clarified that it was a one-time event and not an inherent power. That would be the author.

The one "superpower" that you could actually say she has is prophetic ability. And she's hardly alone there in the story: Bran, Rickon, Jon, Theon, Jaime, Shireen, Melisandre and other red priests and the Ghost of High Heart, off the top of my head, all have prophetic dreams or hints of prophetic dreams.

ETA: Oh and Jojen. :P

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

This is true.... but I also don't buy into midi-lidi-chlorians.

You know, I'll give you that one. That was some bullshit.

[Lord Damian]

I think Dany might need some allies on the mainland but Apple is right, it depends how many she has when she lands and soon after of her current potential. Also, we will see how much is remaining after the battle of mereen.