The King Beyond The Wall Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Please refrain from reading this unless you've read all five books! You should NOT READ THIS if you're ONLY watching the SHOW - You shouldn't even be in this section of the forum. Now with the Preview for EPISODE 6 we see Varys telling the small council about Mareen. Which could imply that Jorah is still feeding him information. I think it is possible that someone else could be feeding Varys this information, but I personally highly doubt that... I believe even Jorah finding Tyrion was not a coincidence, Varys didn't want Tyrion playing mind games with Young Griff (aka Aegon) he needed to get him away again, and he needed a reason for Jorah to get back amongst Dany. The next episode will clear this up, if he is still spying for Varys and that's how he gets caught, then that means him finding Tyrion isn't a mistake, because it would imply he never believed in Dany. In the books we're led to believe that he stopped spying once she gave birth to the dragons (that he began believing in her). He is one of her betrayals, but I don't believe that ever stopped him from betraying her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I don't think Jorah deliberately made himself a drunken wreck so that he could fool Tyrion...hes not the worlds greatest actor. :) I think its more likely that Varys will say that he will try to get in touch with his Jorah to assassinate Daenerys and promise a pardon. Varys will probably say that Jorah has not contacted him since Qarth and has doubts about his loyalty. This will be intercepted and Jorah will get the blame even if he would never accept the offer. Jorah on the show is a very different character to the one in the books. It would be massively out of character to have continued sending messages to Varys LONGER than the character in the books does. He has nothing to gain and is totally loyal to Dany. So far the show has been making Jorah out to be Mr Right and hes been pretty heavily white washed so far. The odds are that its being set up so that exiling him will be a rash and ill considered mistake on Danys part in the show. So I can't see them doing something super out of character like him still spying on her. IMO they would only do that to prevent any criticism falling on Dany. But then, there would be no need to portray him as Mr right if they wanted to avoid criticism of Dany over exiling him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think Jorah never stopped working for Illyrio or, at least, picked it up again during his exile from Dany. His finding of Tyrion was too much of a coincidence. But there is something deeper going on Jorah. I wonder why the Hightowers ever let him marry their daughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think Jorah never stopped working for Illyrio or, at least, picked it up again during his exile from Dany. His finding of Tyrion was too much of a coincidence. But there is something deeper going on Jorah. I wonder why the Hightowers ever let him marry their daughter. That makes absolutely no sense and Tyrion would have found out immediately if he had an ulterior motive. Tyrion is super perceptive and knows people. Again, he did not need to pretend to be a drunken love sick parrot if his goal was to ingratiate himself with Tyrion. The only person such a ruse would serve is the reader, to whom Jorah cannot be aware of. He genuinely is in love with Dany. In the books, he spies on Dany because early on he still wants the option open of taking that pardon; he is hedging his bets. Its only by ASOS when he professes his love to Dany that he is 100% behind her. This is because he was jaded and not convinced Dany would win and that she was truly his queen. Because Lynesse was genuinely in love with him and pushed her father to let them marry? At a guess I think its because Lynesse like a bit of rough and big guys with big hands or something like that. Whereas Dany likes pretty boys like Daario. We might get to meet Lynesse in WoW so maybe we can learn a little more about it. I highly doubt that Jorah could have convinced Lord Leyton to marry Lynesse without her being 100% pushing for him to say yes. If that were truly Jorahs motivations then the TV series would have made him behave more like Littlefinger. They have not. That more than indicates how things are in the story regarding Jorahs motivations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Beyond The Wall Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 I think Jorah never stopped working for Illyrio or, at least, picked it up again during his exile from Dany. His finding of Tyrion was too much of a coincidence. But there is something deeper going on Jorah. I wonder why the Hightowers ever let him marry their daughter. Definitely man, I think there's one more secret even us book readers are not aware of yet. Which is why he's spying for illario, whose sending information to Varys. I don't think Jorah deliberately made himself a drunken wreck so that he could fool Tyrion...hes not the worlds greatest actor. :) I think its more likely that Varys will say that he will try to get in touch with his Jorah to assassinate Daenerys and promise a pardon. Varys will probably say that Jorah has not contacted him since Qarth and has doubts about his loyalty. This will be intercepted and Jorah will get the blame even if he would never accept the offer. Jorah on the show is a very different character to the one in the books. It would be massively out of character to have continued sending messages to Varys LONGER than the character in the books does. He has nothing to gain and is totally loyal to Dany. So far the show has been making Jorah out to be Mr Right and hes been pretty heavily white washed so far. The odds are that its being set up so that exiling him will be a rash and ill considered mistake on Danys part in the show. So I can't see them doing something super out of character like him still spying on her. IMO they would only do that to prevent any criticism falling on Dany. But then, there would be no need to portray him as Mr right if they wanted to avoid criticism of Dany over exiling him. Okay for anyone who wants to say that this is far fetched.... Think about this.... Jorah is sending information to illario, whose sending that information to Varys. Now IF JORAH was actually sincere, why did he NOT TELL/CONFESS to Dany that illario is the one asking for the information? This is what solidified the theory for me. Jorah knows that Dany trusts illario, after all he's the one that gave her the eggs. If Jorah was sincere, he would have told Dany that illario was also spying on her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 That makes absolutely no sense and Tyrion would have found out immediately if he had an ulterior motive. Tyrion is super perceptive and knows people. Again, he did not need to pretend to be a drunken love sick parrot if his goal was to ingratiate himself with Tyrion. The only person such a ruse would serve is the reader, to whom Jorah cannot be aware of. He genuinely is in love with Dany. In the books, he spies on Dany because early on he still wants the option open of taking that pardon; he is hedging his bets. Its only by ASOS when he professes his love to Dany that he is 100% behind her. This is because he was jaded and not convinced Dany would win and that she was truly his queen. Because Lynesse was genuinely in love with him and pushed her father to let them marry? At a guess I think its because Lynesse like a bit of rough and big guys with big hands or something like that. Whereas Dany likes pretty boys like Daario. We might get to meet Lynesse in WoW so maybe we can learn a little more about it. I highly doubt that Jorah could have convinced Lord Leyton to marry Lynesse without her being 100% pushing for him to say yes. If that were truly Jorahs motivations then the TV series would have made him behave more like Littlefinger. They have not. That more than indicates how things are in the story regarding Jorahs motivations. Integrate? Jorah captures Tyrion. He wasn't pretending to be anything. Of all the families in world to marry into, he happens to marry into Hightowers who happen to be sending a ship to Dany? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Beyond The Wall Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 That makes absolutely no sense and Tyrion would have found out immediately if he had an ulterior motive. Tyrion is super perceptive and knows people. Again, he did not need to pretend to be a drunken love sick parrot if his goal was to ingratiate himself with Tyrion. The only person such a ruse would serve is the reader, to whom Jorah cannot be aware of. He genuinely is in love with Dany. In the books, he spies on Dany because early on he still wants the option open of taking that pardon; he is hedging his bets. Its only by ASOS when he professes his love to Dany that he is 100% behind her. This is because he was jaded and not convinced Dany would win and that she was truly his queen. The TV SHOW (Next Episode) will either prove us right or wrong. If he's still spying and that's how he gets caught then it'll prove our point that he's STILL A SPY. Maybe he's just a spy on Tyrion now (after all they have to know what he's keeping upto, illario and Varys). Anyway him loving her and her not loving is heartbreaking for him, we are never in his mind (POV) SO we don't know until we know. We'll see what happens next episode. PS: Check out my post about Quaithe I think you'll enjoy that more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Integrate? Jorah captures Tyrion. He wasn't pretending to be anything. Of all the families in world to marry into, he happens to marry into Hightowers who happen to be sending a ship to Dany? If he was still spying on Dany and Tyrion as you claim, then why would he have assumed the ruse of a love sick parrot and gotton drunk n sick for the purpose. The man is not playing a character here as he has no reason to if his goal is to capture Tyrion. If Jorah was loyal to Varys then he would have taken the pardon he had and returned to Bear Island. Going back to Dany where, as Tyrion points out, she will decapitate him; is not a wise plan. He is obviously acting out of desperation to try to get back and help her/get another chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Beyond The Wall Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 If he was still spying on Dany and Tyrion as you claim, then why would he have assumed the ruse of a love sick parrot and gotton drunk n sick for the purpose. The man is not playing a character here as he has no reason to if his goal is to capture Tyrion. If Jorah was loyal to Varys then he would have taken the pardon he had and returned to Bear Island. Going back to Dany where, as Tyrion points out, she will decapitate him; is not a wise plan. He is obviously acting out of desperation to try to get back and help her/get another chance. Two posts up you noted why in my opinion. Tyrion is very smart and picks up on every clue. Jorah would have really had to play it right. Drinking would have made the lie come out easier. Increases his self-esteem, and takes away his nervousness so that Tyrion wouldn't have any suspicions.... Have we entered crackpot territory yet? Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrion1991 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So when he becomes a broken man after he finds out that Dany was married to Hidzhar? All a ruse to convince Tyrion? Even when he has been captured and branded he still plays the lovesick parrot act? Yes, you have crossed into crackpot territory. So while we're going at crackpot theories.... Dany promised to give Jorah a dragon forged Valyrian sword. This sword will be a reforged Ice. She will acquire both Oathkeeper and Widows Wail during her conquests and use these to make a sword for Jorah. She will use Drogons dragonfire to do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinchanging Sweetrobin Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 If he was still spying on Dany and Tyrion as you claim, then why would he have assumed the ruse of a love sick parrot and gotton drunk n sick for the purpose. The man is not playing a character here as he has no reason to if his goal is to capture Tyrion. If Jorah was loyal to Varys then he would have taken the pardon he had and returned to Bear Island. Going back to Dany where, as Tyrion points out, she will decapitate him; is not a wise plan. He is obviously acting out of desperation to try to get back and help her/get another chance. Again, I don't know where you're getting this ruse thing from. Jorah is not pretending to be anything to Tyrion. Jorah gets exiled, then contacts Illyrio for some more work. Illyrio tells him to bring Tyrion to Dany. Jorah does so. Jorah can't take any pardon. He hasn't finished any job. Plus, the people who agreed to it (Robert and Varys) aren't in KL anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King Beyond The Wall Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 So when he becomes a broken man after he finds out that Dany was married to Hidzhar? All a ruse to convince Tyrion? Even when he has been captured and branded he still plays the lovesick parrot act? Yes, you have crossed into crackpot territory. So while we're going at crackpot theories.... Dany promised to give Jorah a dragon forged Valyrian sword. This sword will be a reforged Ice. She will acquire both Oathkeeper and Widows Wail during her conquests and use these to make a sword for Jorah. She will use Drogons dragonfire to do this. Okay come on my theory wasn't that crackpot! It's actually plausible that Jorah is very good at deception and has been at the service of Varys and Illario for a long time, ever wonder why such a character got such a good actor even though he's supposedly secondary...... I'm not saying I completely adhere to this theory which just came to my head after watching the preview for the next episode. All I'm saying is the next few episodes will either confirm or make this theory just another crackpot theory with very little evidence. If Jorah is still currently spying on Dany then my point stands and only adds as further evidence. Also I told you why don't you consider how he didn't give in illario? Why did he not confess about the true nature of illario if he has nothing to hide. Screw it if he has nothing to hide why didn't he come clean to Dany earlier. Listen all I'm saying is when he was caught in the act (in the books before Mareen), had he not been a master at deception he would have just told her all the truth. Instead he told her another lie, which is that he stopped spying on her in Qarth. Because if he did tell her the REAL TRUTH she would have fed him to Drogan. I'm just saying this is plausible. As for why they haven't done it in the show yet, they're showing how he's her most "trusted" councillor. Yet when it finally cracks he'll be her biggest traitor. A ruler needs to listen to his or her advisors and councilors, but a successful ruler wouldn't TRUST anyone but themselves. She has to learn that lesson even as a character! Who better to teach her that lesson than Jorah (her supposedly most trustworthy councillor). EDIT: ALSO you could be correct... I remember I think Dany's last line to Jorah was something along the lines of "you know where to go now"? Something along those lines I believe... Would be great if someone could pick it up. BUT IF HE DOES LOVE HER! Then maybe he's now working as a double agent for her... If she's actually smart she would have supposedly dispensed of him, but he's just gather more information about illario and varys and the nature of their missions. EDIT 2: For me I believe Jorah is working for illario and Varys at this point, but if he's a double agent and at the end he reports everything back to Dany and all their plans, that'll be insanely cool. He might even get his own dragon... :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.