jaimereborn Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 “They say you forget,” Haggon had told him, a few weeks before his own death. “When the man’s flesh dies, his spirit lives on inside the beast, but every day his memory fades, and the beast becomes a little less a warg, a little more a wolf, until nothing of the man is left and only the beast remains.” (A Dance With Dragons - Prologue) GRRM has already set up warging as a potentially corruptive and dangerous experience for the spirit. He has also set up Jon warging into Ghost just after the stabbing in several different moments of foreshadowing, including Jon's ironic thought "I am not a wolf" (Jon VI - ADWD). I feel that when and if Jon's consciousness is restored to a human body again, he will have become a darker character - his experience as an animal having compromised his morality and his sense of honour. This would also see him as the latest Stark to embrace their darker side: Catelyn as Stoneheart, Arya as an assassin, Bran as potentially working with dark forces, and Sansa as potentially becoming a manipulative political player (especially given the show's latest portrayal of her arc). How would this affect his decisions and his relationships with those around him, especially given the presumed turmoil that is about to ensue at the Wall? Is the Jon we have known throughout the series now gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Out of the "main" characters (Jon, Tyrion, Dany) I think that Jon is the least likely to become darker. Although I like theory of all the Stark kids except Robb and Rickon becoming "villains". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viserys - The last dragon Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Hope so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BastardlyRock Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Not unless he starts getting some sun! But in all seriousness... I subscribe to the theory you put forth, when he returns he will be markedly different. I don't think that means "the Jon we knew is no more" necessarily, but there will almost certainly be some character transformation there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I most certainly hope so. I hope that when he comes back he will stop be the same good man he was before and for once he will do something for himself and not to help the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wolf Lord's Daughter Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think he will become darker. Perhaps not Tyrion or Arya or Dany dark but still very different from the guy he was in ADWD. His stabbing might have been the catalyst of his change like how Jaime's confession and Tywin's betrayal was for Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two and a Halfhand Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 If he really gets revived,i think he will become a very different person,because if you look back to the people that got revived (Beric Dondarrion and Catelyn)you see that they either become different and forget more about the past life or a bloodthirsty zombie,so most likely he will be like the clothes he wears Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Stark Rules Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 After he wargs into Ghost, an his body is killed there is no coming back. However by magic I predict he'll be back with blue eyes ;), I don't consider that dark since I don't see the whitewalkers and anyone associated with them as evil. Though in the setting of the story he might be considered evil by the silly brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 You assume he will warg into ghost. Who says he will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aryagonnakill#2 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Two and a Halfhand, Beric and Catlyn weren't wargs, so when their bodies died so did their souls or however u want to refer to it. Jon on the other hand will have his soul preserved in Ghost, until Ghost is killed and his body revived. Attitude, did you read the Varamyr prologue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 You assume he will warg into ghost. Who says he will? Most people on this board. Also the last word he says is 'Ghost...' and yes much foreshadowing for Jon's warging/resurrection throughout the series etc and the ADWD prologue is a massive hint. Have a look at some of the other threads, particularly the stuff about Jon's body and the Wall and the ice cells - that's all very interesting and much of it extremely convincing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Most people on this board. Also the last word he says is 'Ghost...' and yes much foreshadowing for Jon's warging/resurrection throughout the series etc and the ADWD prologue is a massive hint. Have a look at some of the other threads, particularly the stuff about Jon's body and the Wall and the ice cells - that's all very interesting and much of it extremely convincing I have actually created one of those threads myself, and I've read some others. Not 'most people of this board' think this. There are some which think so, some who DON'T think he will, and some who are in the dark (which I still am, it can go SO many ways). What IS believed by many/most people on this board, is that he most likely will not become an UnJon. Since that doesn't fit his character. However, everyone is allowed to think otherwise. Oh, and about the ADWD prologue. That would mean he would permanently would enter Ghost's body. That would even be worse IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robb_Warged Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Out of the "main" characters (Jon, Tyrion, Dany) I think that Jon is the least likely to become darker. Although I like theory of all the Stark kids except Robb and Rickon becoming "villains". Interesting. I can't see Bran going villain. But I could see Sansa and Arya going villain. Robb was one of the most heroic characters in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 I have actually created one of those threads myself, and I've read some others. Not 'most people of this board' think this. There are some which think so, some who DON'T think he will, and some who are in the dark (which I still am, it can go SO many ways). What IS believed by many/most people on this board, is that he most likely will not become an UnJon. Since that doesn't fit his character. However, everyone is allowed to think otherwise. Oh, and about the ADWD prologue. That would mean he would permanently would enter Ghost's body. That would even be worse IMO. lol how would it definitively mean he permanently enters Ghost's body? unless you're taking that as a literal foreshadowing. as you yourself mentioned, it can go SO many ways and that is only one reading of the prologue and what it's setting up. personally i think it is an example of the potential of warging and is used to illustrate how it can change people... to different extremes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 lol how would it definitively mean he permanently enters Ghost's body? unless you're taking that as a literal foreshadowing. as you yourself mentioned, it can go SO many ways and that is only one reading of the prologue and what it's setting up. personally i think it is an example of the potential of warging and is used to illustrate how it can change people... to different extremes Because it shows NEW information. Warging itself isn't new, but warging in an animals body to live longer is something new. If Jon would (suddenly) deliberatly start warging into Ghost, and you count the ADWD prologue as forshadowing, then yes IMO it has to be a permanent warg (because his body is 'dead'. IMO, if Jon wargs at all, it will be a temporary warging, killing of his offenders and then returning back to his body. But I seriously doubt that aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Because it shows NEW information. Warging itself isn't new, but warging in an animals body to live longer is something new. If Jon would (suddenly) deliberatly start warging into Ghost, and you count the ADWD prologue as forshadowing, then yes IMO it has to be a permanent warg (because his body is 'dead'. IMO, if Jon wargs at all, it will be a temporary warging, killing of his offenders and then returning back to his body. But I seriously doubt that aswell. don't follow that logic about how 'new' information relates to literal foreshadowing at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard of the Rainking Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Interesting. I can't see Bran going villain. But I could see Sansa and Arya going villain. Robb was one of the most heroic characters in the story. I think the theory would pretty much be: Arya = new Jaqen, Sansa = new Littlefinger, Bran = new Bloodraven, Jon = new Night's King. I actually see Bran as more likely than Jon, because he has already turned darker by warging into Summer and hunting and using Hodor's body possibly against his will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attitude Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 don't follow that logic about how 'new' information relates to literal foreshadowing at all Well uhm, because it's like a thing in this series? The very first prologue is the perfect example. It shows us some forshadowing about the WW. Oh wait, the WW aren't real, it was just a non-literal forshadowing on the fact that there was a threat coming from the North (Mance). No the WW are fake. Edit: And yeah, Old Bear's dead was forshadowed for sure (LITERALLY). The one about Melis is quite clear (literall) forshadowing of her using magic (or w/e you want to call it). Ill stop here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya Stark Rules Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I think the theory would pretty much be: Arya = new Jaqen, Sansa = new Littlefinger, Bran = new Bloodraven, Jon = new Night's King. I actually see Bran as more likely than Jon, because he has already turned darker by warging into Summer and hunting and using Hodor's body possibly against his will. I think Bran is more like the Last Hero,just like in Old Nan's story the LH searched for the children to save man. The Night's King was a LC so I think Jon is the higher candidate to be a new NK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaimereborn Posted September 26, 2014 Author Share Posted September 26, 2014 Well uhm, because it's like a thing in this series? The very first prologue is the perfect example. It shows us some forshadowing about the WW. Oh wait, the WW aren't real, it was just a non-literal forshadowing on the fact that there was a threat coming from the North (Mance). No the WW are fake. Edit: And yeah, Old Bear's dead was forshadowed for sure (LITERALLY). The one about Melis is quite clear (literall) forshadowing of her using magic (or w/e you want to call it). Ill stop here. ok calm down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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