Leonardo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 One of the duties of the Gamemaster is to interpret the rules when something isn't clear - and Syv has already done that.So there is no "you guys" at this point. We may have different opinions on the rules, but once the game starts, those become purely academical.I would gladly discuss any changes in the rules for future games, but this is not the place for it. IMO, this discussion has become moot and it is only cluttering the thread.The rules implied the opposite from the beginning and I don't think syv realizes the gravity of viewing the rules that way, and we talked about tying the bonuses to the land and you agreed in the other topic. You guys have changed your tune now but were all onboard for what we describe in the topic.I mean we were totally misled as to how colonization should work and its clear from the discussion, the rules are pretty clear the traits are tied to land for the most part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Do you guys not hear what you're saying?"The rules were unclear, but the game master sided with us so stop cluttering"They're called regional traits ffs, and what im trying to do is help maintain a balanced game, which you guys don't seem to care about as long as you get your way even when the rules and discussion both implied otherwise, even during creation.How is it fair to be able to dodge regional negative traits? If you benefit from the positives you suffer from the negatives, that's how traits work, otherwise everyone would have just been using someone else to colonize for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 2/0 to build a mine in Kanet 2/2 to build a Siege Castle in Martlett Bay2/2 to build a Gold Castle in Kanet2/2 to build a Gold Castle in Maidstone Tourney: Joust: Nathyn, Rickon, Killua, EdmureDive: Nathyn, Rickon, Killua, EdmureMelee: Nathyn, Rickon, Killua Edmure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Et Cetera the Mouse Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I am a complete and total idiot. First I forget to put a castle in the Eyrie, then I go and put in a food rather than a gold. Guess I'm stuck now. 2/0 to build a port in Gulltown 2/2 to build a Gold Castle in Gulltown to remedy the self-induced gold shortage As things appear to be heating up in Midwesteros, Lord Galladon wishes to create a city watch for his capitol for the protection of his smallfolk and of course, his family. He allots 1/1 for this and gives his cousin Kennet the honored position of Captain of the City Watch. In other words: 1/1 to raise 500 men in Crown Crag to be placed under the control of Kennet Perrey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Fine regional traits are now tied to the land. Iron Islanders enjoy your freedom without feeble to move everywhere else. Same with Valers I'll fill in the colonies for those in the westerlands/crownlands who happened to colonize outside the first turn; though remember if you have clueless engineers you're looking at 6 turns for a castle and 3 turns for anything else outside of the crownlands. Also if we want to talk about regional traits from last game: the stormlands movement penalty wasn't even a regional trait; it was a map/land based limitation as was the princes pass and wyl. The true regional traits were the limitations of who could move through the pass depending on which side they were; going in was a one turn limit for the northern side and coming out was a one turn wait for the southern side that were based on capital. But still.. let's go with tied to the land.. enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Eh doesn't that mean the ironborn wouldn't have seafarers though?Walder Longwills is sent to foster for lord perrey and be squired in due time, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lyman Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 I take it, next game we are going to decide what regions traits are to be land based and what traits are capital based? I'm particualrly looking at Silverfingered/Greenthumbs, which would seem to work better as capital based traits then land based. Eh doesn't that mean the ironborn wouldn't have seafarers though? But their Feeble trait would also be completely useless. Max of only three moves and yet the biggest island only contains three territories. The Reavers trait would only come into effect if Nog and Nox decided to attack each other, yet given their moves in this thread, I don't see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Yep Reaver now only applies to the Iron Islands land, and seafarers goes bye bye. Iron Island you now have can embark without penalty and reaver if you decide to attack eachother. Balance has been achieved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Also riverlanders rejoce; your negative trait just became a positive as it will now take anyone without conqeurors 6 turns to convert your land to theirs meaning you have plenty of time to get it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 HmmYeah I think you're right, though I'd rather just give feeble to all armies upon entering vale ala stormlands style and applying negative traits everywhere, but this is certainly an agreeable compromise on this end, though the ironborn may raise some hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nox Irradiata Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 http://www.someecards.com/usercards/viewcard/MjAxMi05YjZiYzM2MDFjNGIxOTBmDamn it, Syv. You broke the thread. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Good glad you agree because that just proves you don't understand balance at all. If the Iron islanders don't have Reaver then they have no economic regional trait while everyone else has an economic regional trait within their lands.The Ironborn economic trait is already the hardest to do as it takes a port, troops and attacking someone else to acquire; which balances the fact that they have an extra trait. Westerlands wants more income? Builds a mine. Riverlands wants more Income? Builds a farm. Crownlands wants more income? Builds castles. Vale wants more income? Builds a port. Iron Islands wants more income? Builds a port, raises troops, sends troops to attack. The only compromise would be to allow the crownlanders to have craftsmen everywhere as I can see that yes the crownlanders do have it the hardest with regional traits. And I understand perhaps it was not clearly stated in the rules. But as these examples show having all the traits tried to the land make no sense. Reavers- becomes useless more or less; basically either the iron islanders attack eachother or they have no economic benefit within their regions but anyone can attack them and gain 1/1 for each colony they sack- a benefit to the attacker.Feeble- also is no longer a negative for the Iron IslandersVale- doesn't change much; but technically no negative trait.Riverlands- look above; it now becomes harder for everyone to conquer the riverlands and becomes a positive for them.. By saying "yeah that's fine to the iron islands losing basically all of it's positive traits" besides being able to embark without penalties shows you are biased. Also; no one colonzied for anyone that I've seen; which means the argument that big alliances will have people just colonize for them makes no sense. There hasn't been a single instance of anyone colonizing for another player ((though it'd be within the rules to do so maybe hindsight is 20/20 for crownlanders?)). Also from the other thread since we want to go there((this is your post with the other stuff deleted right after Nox's list which is currently the regional traits:)).I think nox's recent list looks quite good </quote> There is a land based trait for every group: Vale; anyone with land here can build a portRiverlands: anyone with land here can build a farmwesterlands: anyone with land here can build a mineIron: anyone can embark troops without waiting a turn from here.In fact the crownlands is the only group without a reason to build there; since you need a capital to have blood of valyria. I apologize for the rules being vague for the new players. This is also why the first page of the rule book says ask me questions. Don't ask other players ask me. Because I don't give a flying crap who wins or who loses. There's a reason I decided that every tournament could be a grand tournament even if another player was hosting it; even though the tournament rules are vague about the 5 year thing BECAUSE IT WAS FAIR. So the real compromise is: Crownlands craftsmen benefit applies to all regions they are in; much how the feeble traits for the vale and iron islands apply to them in all regions they are in and upjumped stewards apply to the riverlands in every region they are in. We will also remove the Seafarers from the Iron Island. Traits that are based by map location:River; FarmsWest: MinesVale: postsCrown: Blood of valyriaIron Island; no embarkment penalty Traits that are capital based:River: Greenthumbs/Upjumped stewardsWest: Silverfingered/fearful smallfolkCrownlands: craftsmen/fearful smallfolkVale: Casltes get an extra turn siege/feebleIron Islands: Reavers/feeble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eorl Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 There is a land based trait for every group: Vale; anyone with land here can build a port Riverlands: anyone with land here can build a farm westerlands: anyone with land here can build a mine Iron: anyone can embark troops without waiting a turn from here. In fact the crownlands is the only group without a reason to build there; since you need a capital to have blood of valyria. I apologize for the rules being vague for the new players. This is also why the first page of the rule book says ask me questions. Don't ask other players ask me. Because I don't give a flying crap who wins or who loses. There's a reason I decided that every tournament could be a grand tournament even if another player was hosting it; even though the tournament rules are vague about the 5 year thing BECAUSE IT WAS FAIR. So the real compromise is: Crownlands craftsmen benefit applies to all regions they are in; much how the feeble traits for the vale and iron islands apply to them in all regions they are in and upjumped stewards apply to the riverlands in every region they are in. We will also remove the Seafarers from the Iron Island. Traits that are based by map location: River; Farms West: Mines Vale: posts Crown: Blood of valyria Iron Island; no embarkment penalty Traits that are capital based: River: Greenthumbs/Upjumped stewards West: Silverfingered/fearful smallfolk Crownlands: craftsmen/fearful smallfolk Vale: Casltes get an extra turn siege/feeble Iron Islands: Reavers/feeble. I think is very clear and concise and should clear up these rules for this round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 I'm sorry for being sarcastic.. I worked 13 hours today and it was busy as heck. To come home to 3 pages of debate on stuff we talked about a month ago just irked me. This is the first game for this much regional trait; thus of course this stuff will have to be worked on. But just like Legacy Points or anything else tweaking in the middle of the game only leads to delays, clutter and hassle. I apologize again to anyone mislead by the rules. If you feel iffy about anything ask me. I will not steer you wrong. The rules aren't perfect and maybe some of the wording isn't concise enough; and may need to be discussed. But we need to keep it civil; and this includes myself. I will not edit my posts to hide it. But from this point on players that feel something is wrong can post their concern and I would like if no one else would respond until I do. This may seem like a lot; but there are no 5 pages I have to sort through and get orders from because you guys couldn't not argue. If a player makes a valid point; as Leo did when discussing the grand tournaments then I will make the decision. IF ANYONE HAS ANY RESPONSES TO A PERSONS POINT PM THEM TO ME. This will limit debate in thread and also save everyone else the hassle of having to read this all. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reek Havoc Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 2/2 to colonize Greenfield. 2/2 to colonize Hornvale. Tourney Participants: Joust - Lord Theonn, Lady Margot, Gryffon, Steffon, Tryvar, Ursaline, Daphnna Dive - Lord Theonn, Lady Margot, Gryffon, Steffon, Tryvar, Ursaline, Daphnna Melee - Lord Theonn, Gryffon, Steffon, Tryvar Please give Payne Hall to House Vardmador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Also because there has been discrepancies with some peoples banks; everyone who keeps track of their banks send me a PM of what you have for your bank. If a couple of you come up missing/or I have too much for you I'll have to go through and look at everyones orders/incomes/expenditures from the beginning. If you don't keep track of your bank don't worry I will probably be going through them all to be safe anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Carrot wins the thread. :grouphug::DSending Agnes Demetrius to wed Ultra MagnusMissed this!Let their union be bountiful and joyous!I believe the bedding ceremony happened rather quickly. :D---------------------So, I am now back on GMT...which is nice. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrannogDweller Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 So, I am now back on GMT...which is nice. :D Speaking of which, the Daylight savings time ended here as well. For reference, it's 11:41 am as I post this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadwood Posted October 26, 2014 Share Posted October 26, 2014 Everything back to normal then, 10pm tonight! :D -------------------9/9 to raise 4,500 valiantly feeble men at Wycliffe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Syv Aldlark Posted October 26, 2014 Author Share Posted October 26, 2014 Yeah my time will change soon as well. But since we're using UTC which doesn't change I don't think we have to change Times of ending stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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