Who is Coldhands?

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Me with a beer in each hand!

*rimshot*

ha!

[Brother Seamus]

My Theory

Coldhands is probably not a major missing character but rather just a member of the Night's Watch that went Ranging with Brynden Rivers in 252AC. He died protecting his Lord Commander and Brynden survived by Coldhands' sacrifice and by reaching the cave where he now resides...now, the dead ranger is a Thrall of Bloodraven...similar to the Wights. I do believe Coldhands is a wight similar to the ones controlled by the Others, but since the Others do not speak the common tongue, the wights who were formally men cannot communicate; whereas Coldhands can. It is my belief that when Coldhands speaks, it is Brynden Rivers speaking through Coldhands.

The Others have the bright blue eyes and all the dangerous Wights have Bright Blue Eyes...I think that is a sign that their body is being controlled by something else (The Others). My guess is The Others are few in number but possess the power to control dead beings and they use them for their army or travel needs (horses and the like).

Brynden Rivers "Bloodraven" commanded The Raven's Teeth, a company of longbowmen, many of which took the black with Bloodraven, IIRC. Remember all those Ravens who protected Coldhands when he saved Sam (symbolism), and then continue to travel with them?

Plus Leaf said they killed him long ago. That duration is relative but I don't think 2-3 years can be considered long ago by a CotF.

Leaf says she has seen 200 years while we know Brynden Rivers is 125. When compared to the age of the wall, they are close in age. Compared to the age of Bran, the age difference is huge. Everything is relative.

But in my opinion, when Leaf says Long Ago regarding when 'they' killed Coldhands, I interpret that as longer than 2-3 years ago, which would eliminate Benjen Stark as Coldhands.

We do not know enough about the Night's King to know what is downfall was or if he just retreated. I have a hard time grasping the notion that the Night's King went from being 'king' to roaming the lands beyond the wall for eternity then helping out another former Lord Commander.

the best theory i can remember hearing. GRRM was careful not to make it certain that it's not benjen, by repeating more than once that bran can't see his face, but i think it's misdirection/obfuscation. i'm betting benjen's still alive, otherwise what's the point of leaving us hanging for five books?.

[polythenehigh]

First post *waves*

Bloodraven was not in warg control of coldhands but coldhands explains that he is his "master". This could point to magical control or simply being in

his service but he always describes The Three Eye'd crow in the third person so throws warging out of the mix.

Necromancy/resurrection with personality is only ever seen on 2 other occasions Stoneheart and the Lightning lord. As has been seen the results are dictated by the condition of whom the magic is being cast. With Stoneheart because of the time after death she is much closer to the wrights then the lightning lord who's resurrections followed quickly after his deaths (in some cases he may not have even been dead by mortally wounded) She also shows less aspects of her prior personality then the lightning lord being consumed by rage while the lightning lord allows himself to be consumed by the concept of justice.(I am not including The mountain as we need to wait and see) We also do not know if this ability brings people back to live a normal life span or brings them back to the appearance of living while slowly decaying over the years.

The 2 wrights who were brought back to castle black and proceeded to attack the lord commander showed aspects of memory by knowing who to attack so the magic may be of the same type but completely removing any free will.

We can surmise from leafs statement that he died much further back in the timeline then to possibly be Ben Stark. Leaf would not throw around the term long ago to mean a couple of years. We can also surmise that Blood raven was the magic user who raised coldhands into his current form because it would make sense with his description of him as "master". We can also surmise that it occurred before Blood raven took his seat in his throne because all necromancy magic so far seem's to require physical contact. Either the act of killing a person or holding them. As the others/wrights can not enter the haven beneath the weirwood it stands to reason they would have had to kill Coldhands else where, then Bloodraven raised him as a guardian/cats paw. This would have had to happen before he took up his residence beneath the Hill, maybe as an act to give himself a willing servant besides animals (opposable thumbs for the win)

Logic of his retained personality but his decayed appearance points to him having been resurrected soon after death but a considerable time ago.

We can surmise that necromancy requires physical contact as well because otherwise blood raven could raise an entire army from his position beneath the hill if it was otherwise.

He would not be the Nights King as it does not fit his back story what so ever and according to legend his Soul was given to the women who enthralled him... making it very unlikely he would describe blood raven as his master an become his servant.

All this points to a member of the nightswatch who was with Bloodraven during an encounter with the others or wrights, killed and then resurrected in short order.

[Lord Fred of Mole's Town]

Interesting ideas about CH being a BR warg and former member of the RT.

Benjen is another story. I believe that both Ned and Benjen knew that "the time had come" for the Starks to reconnect with the WWs/NK when Ned beheaded the deranged Gared. Although not specifically described, they knew what Gared had witnessed and knew the ramifications of his ravings. Almost immediately, Ned set in motion Benjen's departure and sent Jon with him to "protect" him as he was called to duty in KL. Benjen's mission was to reconnect with the Stark roots within the WWs and the CotF (maybe even BR) and understand what had changed with the existing CotF/WW treaty (to include why the donated Craster babies weren't enough anymore). Obviously, the magic has returned to the world and something (spiritual or physical) has awakened.

Once Benjen and Jon reached CB, Benjen informed Mormont of the truth behind Jon. Then Benjen left on his "ranging mission" with his oddly small group. Mormont grew closer to Jon (along with the sword gift) as a request from the Starks.

I do believe there is a CH/BR and Benjen connection. As GRRM goes "further north than ever before" with TWoW, we will further understand the ages-old Stark connection to the WWs/NK via Benjen's return and Bran/Jon will extrapolate as necessary.

Too crackpot?

[dagururgf]

Welcome Polythenehigh. I think you've convinced me - the one thing that is still problematic is that Bloodraven and Coldhands would need to be able to communicate to each other over distances, or else Coldhands would not have found Sam at Whitetree (because of the heart tree). Is it possible that Bloodraven is working some heart tree magic on Coldhands, like Greenseers do over weirwoods where he can see through his eyes, and pass thoughts through (think Bran talking through the Winterfell heart tree)?

[Brother Seamus]

sounds good

[Ser Charles of Rosehaven]

Me with a beer in each hand!

*rimshot*

It could be anyone then. How did you got that far north ser?

[polythenehigh]

dagururgf

Welcome Polythenehigh. I think you've convinced me - the one thing that is still problematic is that Bloodraven and Coldhands would need to be able to communicate to each other over distances, or else Coldhands would not have found Sam at Whitetree (because of the heart tree). Is it possible that Bloodraven is working some heart tree magic on Coldhands, like Greenseers do over weirwoods where he can see through his eyes, and pass thoughts through (think Bran talking through the Winterfell heart tree)?

Cold hands demonstrates that he is able to see through a ravens eyes and likely warg into one, would be a simple enough task for Bloodraven to warg into another one and converse with him raven to raven or Coldhands to raven. One raven also finds sam where he and Gilly camp for the night before the wright attack which is likely how coldhands was able to locate Sam or Via Blood raven seeing sam when he prays to the weirwood and then passing the information on via raven.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

First post *waves*

Bloodraven was not in warg control of coldhands but coldhands explains that he is his "master". This could point to magical control or simply being in

his service but he always describes The Three Eye'd crow in the third person so throws warging out of the mix.

Necromancy/resurrection with personality is only ever seen on 2 other occasions Stoneheart and the Lightning lord. As has been seen the results are dictated by the condition of whom the magic is being cast. With Stoneheart because of the time after death she is much closer to the wrights then the lightning lord who's resurrections followed quickly after his deaths (in some cases he may not have even been dead by mortally wounded) She also shows less aspects of her prior personality then the lightning lord being consumed by rage while the lightning lord allows himself to be consumed by the concept of justice.(I am not including The mountain as we need to wait and see) We also do not know if this ability brings people back to live a normal life span or brings them back to the appearance of living while slowly decaying over the years.

The 2 wrights who were brought back to castle black and proceeded to attack the lord commander showed aspects of memory by knowing who to attack so the magic may be of the same type but completely removing any free will.

We can surmise from leafs statement that he died much further back in the timeline then to possibly be Ben Stark. Leaf would not throw around the term long ago to mean a couple of years. We can also surmise that Blood raven was the magic user who raised coldhands into his current form because it would make sense with his description of him as "master". We can also surmise that it occurred before Blood raven took his seat in his throne because all necromancy magic so far seem's to require physical contact. Either the act of killing a person or holding them. As the others/wrights can not enter the haven beneath the weirwood it stands to reason they would have had to kill Coldhands else where, then Bloodraven raised him as a guardian/cats paw. This would have had to happen before he took up his residence beneath the Hill, maybe as an act to give himself a willing servant besides animals (opposable thumbs for the win)

Logic of his retained personality but his decayed appearance points to him having been resurrected soon after death but a considerable time ago.

We can surmise that necromancy requires physical contact as well because otherwise blood raven could raise an entire army from his position beneath the hill if it was otherwise.

He would not be the Nights King as it does not fit his back story what so ever and according to legend his Soul was given to the women who enthralled him... making it very unlikely he would describe blood raven as his master an become his servant.

All this points to a member of the nightswatch who was with Bloodraven during an encounter with the others or wrights, killed and then resurrected in short order.

He doesn't say he is a monster, he is answering the question as to who the Three-Eyed Crow is. I thought he was answering Bran the first time I read it but if you read it again, he is not saying who he is, but rather who the three-eyed crow is.

ADwD, Chapter 4 - Bran I

Meera’s gloved hand tightened around the shaft of her frog spear. “Who sent you? Who is this three-eyed crow?”

“A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer.” The longhall’s wooden door banged open. Outside, the night wind howled, bleak and black. The trees were full of ravens, screaming. Coldhands did not move.

“A monster,” Bran said.

The ranger looked at Bran as if the rest of them did not exist. “Your monster, Brandon Stark.”

“Yours,” the raven echoed, from his shoulder. Outside the door, the ravens in the trees took up the cry, until the night wood echoed to the murderer’s song of “Yours, yours, yours.”

ETA - And welcome to the forums!

[polythenehigh]

Ser Cold Hands I did not use the term "monster" in my post so not sure what your getting at.

Also he is not describing bloodraven as "Brans monster" thats him answering the question from the previous page "Who are you and why are your hands black"

Hes describing himself, as the previous paragraph Bran says "He's dead" "Meera, he's some dead thing. The monsters cannot..."

and the final paragraph of that chapter ends with Jojen saying "We go with the ranger" "We have come too far to turn back now, Meera. We would never make it back to the wall alive. We go with Brans monster, or we die"

None of that points to coldhands describing the three eyed raven as brans monster.

[Lord Coldhands]

Probably Benjen, as people have said -- it could be otherwise, but this seems to make the most sense.

He was added as a character for two main reasons. To help Bran find the Three-Eyed Crow, and to show that wights may be able to think, and Coldhands may be a rare type that can actually TALK. He is undoubtably a wight and dead though, but how he came to talk and if any other wights can talk is unknown, to me and to the community I would think.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Interesting ideas about CH being a BR warg and former member of the RT.

Benjen is another story. I believe that both Ned and Benjen knew that "the time had come" for the Starks to reconnect with the WWs/NK when Ned beheaded the deranged Gared. Although not specifically described, they knew what Gared had witnessed and knew the ramifications of his ravings. Almost immediately, Ned set in motion Benjen's departure and sent Jon with him to "protect" him as he was called to duty in KL. Benjen's mission was to reconnect with the Stark roots within the WWs and the CotF (maybe even BR) and understand what had changed with the existing CotF/WW treaty (to include why the donated Craster babies weren't enough anymore). Obviously, the magic has returned to the world and something (spiritual or physical) has awakened.

Once Benjen and Jon reached CB, Benjen informed Mormont of the truth behind Jon. Then Benjen left on his "ranging mission" with his oddly small group. Mormont grew closer to Jon (along with the sword gift) as a request from the Starks.

I do believe there is a CH/BR and Benjen connection. As GRRM goes "further north than ever before" with TWoW, we will further understand the ages-old Stark connection to the WWs/NK via Benjen's return and Bran/Jon will extrapolate as necessary.

Too crackpot?

Most ranging groups consist of 3-6 men. In AGoT, Prologue, there were only three Rangers in that ranging. Waymar, Gared & Will. Gared survived and fled...he was the man Eddard Stark beheaded.

Benjen was still at the Wall when Gared was beheaded. It was not until Eddard learned the King was coming to Winterfell that Eddard sent for Benjen to come join the feast.

If Eddard thought he needed to reconnect with the WW or NK as you suggest, then it makes no sense for Eddard to travel to KL and take the position of the Hand of the King.

Mormont's reasoning to make Jon his steward was to groom him for the command as he is young, strong willed and a son of a Stark. Benjen would have made a good LC but Mormont probably didn't think he would die any time soon, so by the time Benjen would be eligible for the position, Benjen himself would be older. Jon made a lot of sense...plus by this time, Benjen is missing.

Also, except for the blue eyes, Coldhands physical appearance is just like a Wight. We never see his face or any other body part. But he obviously cannot pass warded gates or enter warded places...which makes me believe he is a Wight of sorts. Lady Stoneheart nor Beric Dondarrion had such a physical description...which makes be believe in some fashion, their hearts still beat...or the blood would pool in their extremities.

[Lord Fred of Mole's Town]

Benjen was still at the Wall when Gared was beheaded. It was not until Eddard learned the King was coming to Winterfell that Eddard sent for Benjen to come join the feast.

Appreciate the correction...but I fully believe Benjen's mission at the Wall was changed after the Gared incident. In any case, I think TWoW will explore the Stark-WWs (NK) connection, which will clarify Benjen's role in this tale.

I also hope CH will prove to be quite the enigma between BR, CotF and WWs.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Ser Cold Hands I did not use the term "monster" in my post so not sure what your getting at.

Also he is not describing bloodraven as "Brans monster" thats him answering the question from the previous page "Who are you and why are your hands black"

Hes describing himself, as the previous paragraph Bran says "He's dead" "Meera, he's some dead thing. The monsters cannot..."

and the final paragraph of that chapter ends with Jojen saying "We go with the ranger" "We have come too far to turn back now, Meera. We would never make it back to the wall alive. We go with Brans monster, or we die"

None of that points to coldhands describing the three eyed raven as brans monster.

I read 'master' as 'monster'...and just went from there.

Regarding the Monster portion of the dialog between Coldhands, Bran, Jojen & Meera, you need to look at the subtext and nuance of the dialog. The most recent question posed to Coldhands is "Who is this three-eyed crow?". The answer Coldhands provides is "A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer."

Bran says then. "A Monster,"

"Your Monster, Brandon Stark."

When Jojen calls Coldhands Bran's monster, that is using the term monster not from when Coldhands uses it but from when Bran uses it in the previous paragraph.

“He’s dead.” Bran could taste the bile in his throat. “Meera, he’s some dead thing. The monsters cannot pass so long as the Wall stands and the men of the Night’s Watch stay true, that’s what Old Nan used to say. He came to meet us at the Wall, but he could not pass. He sent Sam instead, with that wildling girl.”

That is where Jojen gets the term monster and the idea to call him Bran's monster.

I have read it numerous times and tried to make it fit where Coldhands was introducing himself as Bran's monster with the name, Brandon Stark...which could be the Night's King...but the flow of the conversation, start to finish doesn't fit in that context.

In the previous paragraph, Coldhands again just answers the last of two questions posed to him, never answering who he is.

"who are you? Why are your hands black?"

he goes to explain about his hands, ignoring the first question.

Also, Coldhands kills those Night's Watch deserters, which are to be the last of the mutineers from Craster's keep...those who killed Mormont. BR as a former LC is compelled to deal with deserters himself...through his thrall, Coldhands.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

Appreciate the correction...but I fully believe Benjen's mission at the Wall was changed after the Gared incident. In any case, I think TWoW will explore the Stark-WWs (NK) connection, which will clarify Benjen's role in this tale.

I also hope CH will prove to be quite the enigma between BR, CotF and WWs.

While we disagree on some finer points, we both agree that several loose ends will be wrapped up at the end of TWoW...but I fear that we shall have many new loose ends!

[polythenehigh]

I read 'master' as 'monster'...and just went from there.

Regarding the Monster portion of the dialog between Coldhands, Bran, Jojen & Meera, you need to look at the subtext and nuance of the dialog. The most recent question posed to Coldhands is "Who is this three-eyed crow?". The answer Coldhands provides is "A friend. Dreamer, wizard, call him what you will. The last greenseer."

Bran says then. "A Monster,"

"Your Monster, Brandon Stark."

When Jojen calls Coldhands Bran's monster, that is using the term monster not from when Coldhands uses it but from when Bran uses it in the previous paragraph.

That is where Jojen gets the term monster and the idea to call him Bran's monster.

I have read it numerous times and tried to make it fit where Coldhands was introducing himself as Bran's monster with the name, Brandon Stark...which could be the Night's King...but the flow of the conversation, start to finish doesn't fit in that context.

In the previous paragraph, Coldhands again just answers the last of two questions posed to him, never answering who he is.

"who are you? Why are your hands black?"

he goes to explain about his hands, ignoring the first question.

Also, Coldhands kills those Night's Watch deserters, which are to be the last of the mutineers from Craster's keep...those who killed Mormont. BR as a former LC is compelled to deal with deserters himself...through his thrall, Coldhands.

The final sentence of that chapter "we go with Brans monster, or we die" That doesn't fit with The three eyed raven being the monster as he would say we go to brans monster not with... as its "with" it must be cold hands who is present. Can see how both interpretation's fit, could just be sloppy writing. As to the nights watch men he kills Im not sure they are the last deserters, why would they be tracking bran that far North? they wouldn't know who he was or even that he was alive (ignoring the fan fiction of the TV show) When Jon snow sends out 3 ranging parties of 3, one of which are left eye less outside castle blacks gate what happens to the other 2? cant remember.

[Ser Cold Fingers]

The final sentence of that chapter "we go with Brans monster, or we die" That doesn't fit with The three eyed raven being the monster as he would say we go to brans monster not with... as its "with" it must be cold hands who is present. Can see how both interpretation's fit, could just be sloppy writing. As to the nights watch men he kills Im not sure they are the last deserters, why would they be tracking bran that far North? they wouldn't know who he was or even that he was alive (ignoring the fan fiction of the TV show) When Jon snow sends out 3 ranging parties of 3, one of which are left eye less outside castle blacks gate what happens to the other 2? cant remember.

It is my opinion that BR was talking through Coldhands the entire time but it would just raise more questions and create discontent between Bran, Jojen & Meera if BR was talking in the first person but still far away. It was not the right time to explain how and what he is doing. So he answered in third person as if he was talking about someone else.

And the deserters were not tracking them, they were lost in the haunted forest trying to head west to the Shadow Tower and either scale the wall or try their luck by crossing over the Bridge of Skulls over the gorge near Westwatch-by-the-Bridge.

Their paths just happen to cross. Summer feeds on them...so lucky for him.

And I do not remember what happened to the other 6 rangers. It may be we do not know yet.

[polythenehigh]

By that point Brans group had been travelling North for quite a considerable distance, mounted as well. Cold hands did not leave them for long enough to travel a great distance when he killed them and neither did summer to come upon them. The deserters as members of the nights watch would have been able to at least be able to tell direction of North and South using the stars so would have been very unlikely to have been that far North when as you said they would have wanted to head south to the wall. Would make more sense for that group to have been one of the 3 sent out by Jon Snow.

[Lord Fred of Mole's Town]

Also, Coldhands kills those Night's Watch deserters, which are to be the last of the mutineers from Craster's keep...those who killed Mormont. BR as a former LC is compelled to deal with deserters himself...through his thrall, Coldhands.

Regarding the CH conundrum....

CH can't go south of the wall

CH can't go in BR/CotF's weirwood cave

I do believe wights can go south of the wall but wights aren't able to get in the cave either. To me, this conflicts with CH being a normal wight. Perhaps he is bound by the same Brandon the Builder/CotF "spell" that is associated with the wall itself? That would make him extremely old but still wouldn't exclude him from being a former NW. Again, could he be the long-lost Stark-WW factor that has been implied for ages?

[dagururgf]

On the whole cave thing - it suggests to me there has been a greenseer in that cave as long as the wall, and the two were built at the same time (Brandon the Builder was known to have worked with the Children). This ties in to the whole Horn of Joramun being delivered to the First by Bloodraven thing as - I seem to remember - Joramun was involved in constructing the wall or fighting the Long Night with Brandon.