Maybe Stannis is still alive

[Stag_legion]

Stag,

Well there is the fact that Planatos seems to be on an unstable orbit, or the political realities. Keep in mind that Matriarchal societies weren't all that uncommon in our history. An argument could be made that women as second class citizens was just one of the many 'blessings' that religion granted us. Seeing that religions in ASOIAF are different than the religions we had in the middle ages and all the other DRASTIC differences I've sighted, AND then add in our own real life historical stories of strong warrior women 'See Amazons' 'See Joan of Arc' I find your protestation that 'Feminism' has ruined ASOIAF pretty silly.

matriarchy seemed to be more common before the advent of large scale farming and high population civilizations. The majority societies with enough population to have cities eventually turned patriarchal especially large empires. of course some less than others. But the common thread seems to be related to war. men are the ones who wage war and as a result dictated decisions in society. In smaller scale societies war had a smaller significance so women were more important in society.

I agree the world of ASOIAF has some different features than the real world and that does affect the people, but Martin has tried to make the people in this world realistic and so even if there is an element in the story that is different from our world people react to it in a realistic manner, similar to how we would react if we were placed in a similar situation.

[Rinn80]

His purpose is he's an major character in GRRM books so D&D grin and beard his existence in the show until they could get rid of him

The right answer is E).

[Stag_legion]

I d put stannis being alive in season 6 at 90%.

the situation with the cut and the explanation for why his death wasn't shown explicitly is analogous to the excuse a guy will give for why he isn't getting up to do that one thing he never misses when he's got an erection. For anyone who knows the guy its plainly obvious that something is up and he didn't just change his mind about doing his favorite thing.

GOT always revels in showing deaths, and the more gory the better. Its really not convincing that they decided to make an exception with stannis. If anything D&D are more likely to give stannis (a character they dislike) a gruesome death, if they had decided to kill him off. They d probably make it ironic as well and have him burn.

Stannis is ALIVE and heck even in the "inside the episode" commentary of the scene, D&D don't really talk about the scene in a definite way, like other deaths.

[Philpenn]

Stannis had whiskey dick?

[Jon Flow]

Stag,

I don't know, it's been awhile since I took 'Ancient Civ' in college but I'm pretty sure there were Gynocracies (Actual thing) in Greece that existed during the founding of Rome.

As for Stannis. You are wrong. I doubt HBO would commission a Beautiful Death based on a fake-out:

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/s5-e10.jpg

[Stag_legion]

Stag,

I don't know, it's been awhile since I took 'Ancient Civ' in college but I'm pretty sure there were Gynocracies (Actual thing) in Greece that existed during the founding of Rome.

As for Stannis. You are wrong. I doubt HBO would commission a Beautiful Death based on a fake-out:

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/s5-e10.jpg

Two things need to be considered. 1. Ancient Greeks often treated myths as historical fact, but that doesn't mean they were so, an example is amazons. There were no real amazon communities, as in communities where the populations was exclusivity female, greek very likely witnessed female scythian and Samaritan warriors which in itself probably seemed very bizarre as greek women almost never fought as warriors. But scythian/sarmatian female warriors lived with their male counterparts unlike Amazons of myth, and men were still generally more high ranking in these societies.

2. Female rule was present on some occasions but like I said they were limited to small communities, larger states seem to be exclusively patriarchal in most cases.

The beautiful death for stannis doesn't really reveal anything, they still don't show a body.

[Philpenn]

http://winteriscoming.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/s5-e10.jpg

Do you know that's a commission? People violate copyrights left and right making fan art these days.

[Banjo]

I d put stannis being alive in season 6 at 90%.

the situation with the cut and the explanation for why his death wasn't shown explicitly is analogous to the excuse a guy will give for why he isn't getting up to do that one thing he never misses when he's got an erection. For anyone who knows the guy its plainly obvious that something is up and he didn't just change his mind about doing his favorite thing.

GOT always revels in showing deaths, and the more gory the better. Its really not convincing that they decided to make an exception with stannis. If anything D&D are more likely to give stannis (a character they dislike) a gruesome death, if they had decided to kill him off. They d probably make it ironic as well and have him burn.

Stannis is ALIVE and heck even in the "inside the episode" commentary of the scene, D&D don't really talk about the scene in a definite way, like other deaths.

I thought the explanation is very valid. GOT revels in brutal death WHEN it is shocking to the audience. Robb and Catheyln's death had to be brutal because their deaths were a twist and shocking. The brutality added to the scene

Oberyn's death had to be brutal as again it was a twist while he was winning easily and the brutality of that scene and the reaction of the other people present, add to the scene

Heck, even Meryn Trant's death had to be brutal to show what Arya had become and how far she had come

But Stannis was already defeated in all ways possible. From the last few episodes, we could see him lose everything he held dear. His family, Mel's faith in him, even the audience's sympathy. He was dead all but physically. Once Brienne showed up, his death was not shocking or a twist but just a formality. Making his death brutal adds nothing to the show. It will be akin to showing Jamie kicking a puppy to death. That is not shocking, that is just sadistic.

[Valhalla Morghulis]

I agree, I think his death was a formality and foreshadowed since Season 2 by his avenger, the very popular and well depicted show Brienne, and therefore did not need to be shown and also to protect Brienne who is a much more popular character than show Stannis. Just as the Battle of Winterfell was not shown in favour of the budget going on Hardhome. Altho seemingly beloved in the books, Stannis was never portrayed well in the shows and GRRM never fought for him to be better portrayed in the early seasons and must also have given consent for DD to burn Shireen, unless they have had a major falling out, so I don't think DD are intriguing over his death as they are with Jon.

[Stag_legion]

I thought the explanation is very valid. GOT revels in brutal death WHEN it is shocking to the audience. Robb and Catheyln's death had to be brutal because their deaths were a twist and shocking. The brutality added to the scene

Oberyn's death had to be brutal as again it was a twist while he was winning easily and the brutality of that scene and the reaction of the other people present, add to the scene

Heck, even Meryn Trant's death had to be brutal to show what Arya had become and how far she had come

But Stannis was already defeated in all ways possible. From the last few episodes, we could see him lose everything he held dear. His family, Mel's faith in him, even the audience's sympathy. He was dead all but physically. Once Brienne showed up, his death was not shocking or a twist but just a formality. Making his death brutal adds nothing to the show. It will be akin to showing Jamie kicking a puppy to death. That is not shocking, that is just sadistic.

like I said in the other thread, they didn't need to make it brutal, just show something that confirmed his death. D&D would have known for sure that cutting away from the deathblow would make things ambiguous and many viewers would question whether he was dead or not, so they did it this way either to: 1. troll the viewers and make them believe he might still be alive but to screw them over when its revealed that he's dead next season or 2. keep stannis alive but leave the viewers guessing until next season, so his survival can function as a surprise.

I think the latter option is more likely.

[Stag_legion]

I agree, I think his death was a formality and foreshadowed since Season 2 by his avenger, the very popular and well depicted show Brienne, and therefore did not need to be shown and also to protect Brienne who is a much more popular character than show Stannis. Just as the Battle of Winterfell was not shown in favour of the budget going on Hardhome. Altho seemingly beloved in the books, Stannis was never portrayed well in the shows and GRRM never fought for him to be better portrayed in the early seasons and must also have given consent for DD to burn Shireen, unless they have had a major falling out, so I don't think DD are intriguing over his death as they are with Jon.

You think he actually has a choice about that?

Martin's got a contract with these guys and they have the rights to do whatever they want with their adaptation. Even if something on GOT made GRRM furious he can't say it publicly.

[Marcus Agrippa]

David Weiss has been mangling characters ever since he learned how to write. I really don't like hollywood liberals. Their as bad as southern conservatives. They know nothing and they understand nothing.

[Fanless Mace]

Stannis is as dead as Ned and Zed. He served his plot purpose, and now he's needed out of the way. He brought Mel to Jon and sent Davos to find the young'uns. The Baratheon's were always just a placeholder between unified Targs and First Men rule in the form of Jon. Someone's great men lose and die in the GOT.

[Stag_legion]

Stannis is as dead as Ned and Zed. He served his plot purpose, and now he's needed out of the way. He brought Mel to Jon and sent Davos to find the young'uns. The Baratheon's were always just a placeholder between unified Targs and First Men rule in the form of Jon. Someone's great men lose and die in the GOT.

yes everyone else is filler for Jon and Dany's story. -sarcasm

 

People have thought stannis' story was over ever since his defeat at blackwater but he's been breathing for three books since. I d like to hear the new excuses about stannis' irrelevance if he wins at winterfell and gains the north. You d probably say he's preparing the north for Jon lol.

[Fanless Mace]

yes everyone else is filler for Jon and Dany's story. -sarcasm
 
People have thought stannis' story was over ever since his defeat at blackwater but he's been breathing for three books since. I d like to hear the new excuses about stannis' irrelevance if he wins at winterfell and gains the north. You d probably say he's preparing the north for Jon lol.

You may not have noticed :-) but important people sometimes just die all of a sudden. Who predicted Ned's death after the first chapter?

I don't mean to reduce Stannis's entire plot line to "get Mel to John," but I've never felt the inevitability that many Stannis lovers feel...I always saw him as just another Baratheon red herring. The Baratheons do not win the GOT (old gods willing). So perhaps Stannis has some wind left in his plot sails, I'm as excited as anyone to see...but I'm of the mind he's dead.

I think the episode purposely did not show Stannis's death nor Theon/Sansa's and they showed us Jon's...but knowing that Sansa and Theon live and with the conviction that we ain't sen the last of Jon, that leaves Stannis as the directorial cannn fodder (they can't ALL survive, too trite!)

Stannis spent five books setting great events in motion, most of which will lead to Starks doing something different than they would if Stannis never appeared in the North. But it's going to get bleaker before the dawn of Spring, and to have Stannis alive and leading an army and taking the north would be the easy way out.

We'll see...that's the fun.

[Stag_legion]

You may not have noticed :-) but important people sometimes just die all of a sudden. Who predicted Ned's death after the first chapter?

I don't mean to reduce Stannis's entire plot line to "get Mel to John," but I've never felt the inevitability that many Stannis lovers feel...I always saw him as just another Baratheon red herring. The Baratheons do not win the GOT (old gods willing). So perhaps Stannis has some wind left in his plot sails, I'm as excited as anyone to see...but I'm of the mind he's dead.

I think the episode purposely did not show Stannis's death nor Theon/Sansa's and they showed us Jon's...but knowing that Sansa and Theon live and with the conviction that we ain't sen the last of Jon, that leaves Stannis as the directorial cannn fodder (they can't ALL survive, too trite!)

Stannis spent five books setting great events in motion, most of which will lead to Starks doing something different than they would if Stannis never appeared in the North. But it's going to get bleaker before the dawn of Spring, and to have Stannis alive and leading an army and taking the north would be the easy way out.

We'll see...that's the fun.

yeah all I m saying is we don't know what's going to happen, stannis might actually be really dead like the pink letter said, or he might live for quite a while even end up the throne in the end, we don't know.

 

One thing is for sure though, Martin doesn't just write characters for plot devices, Stannis' entire story just being a way for starks to come back doesn't quite fit Martin's writing. Its like saying Robb's entire purpose was to die and leave a political vacuum in the north where stannis could launch another campaign for the throne. I m sure wording it that way would annoy a lot of stark/Robb fans.

[Fanless Mace]

yeah all I m saying is we don't know what's going to happen, stannis might actually be really dead like the pink letter said, or he might live for quite a while even end up the throne in the end, we don't know.
 
One thing is for sure though, Martin doesn't just write characters for plot devices, Stannis' entire story just being a way for starks to come back doesn't quite fit Martin's writing. Its like saying Robb's entire purpose was to die and leave a political vacuum in the north where stannis could launch another campaign for the throne. I m sure wording it that way would annoy a lot of stark/Robb fans.

And yet, in good literature, a character has no business exceding their usefulness.

Aside from that, I would be disappointed to be done with Ramsey yet--I hope he remains a foil and foe until near the end, and Stannis's possible demise lends itself to that being more likely.

[Stag_legion]

And yet, in good literature, a character has no business exceding their usefulness.

Aside from that, I would be disappointed to be done with Ramsey yet--I hope he remains a foil and foe until near the end, and Stannis's possible demise lends itself to that being more likely.

If anyone has outlived his purpose, its ramsay. the atrocities he committed have already enraged most of the north, him staying alive to do more of that won't move the story forward. Stannis taking winterfell and the north opens the way for far more possibilities.

 

TWOW will be the book that sets up the climax of the series, and so the various factions involved are going to be gathering their supporters and preparing for their major political showdown with the opposing side. It would be a more interesting story for the northern faction (and their allies) to be lead by both stannis and the starks, rather than it just being a robb stark 2.0 scenario.

[Fanless Mace]

If anyone has outlived his purpose, its ramsay. the atrocities he committed have already enraged most of the north, him staying alive to do more of that won't move the story forward. Stannis taking winterfell and the north opens the way for far more possibilities.
 
TWOW will be the book that sets up the climax of the series, and so the various factions involved are going to be gathering their supporters and preparing for their major political showdown with the opposing side. It would be a more interesting story for the northern faction (and their allies) to be lead by both stannis and the starks, rather than it just being a robb stark 2.0 scenario.

Perhaps. I see equally promising the prospects of our dangerous and loathsome Ramsey/Boltons on the one hand and the Others on (ahem) the other hand (with Castle Black and whatever form Jon takes in the middle) to become a northern shitstorm of Trumpian YUGE possibilities. Ramsey and his pops are together perhaps the most interestingly depraved and dangerous men in all Westeros (well, along with Balish), and I for one hope their evil shadow spreads with ample inhumanity abounding before it is blown back. I'm not HOPING either way, re: Stannis's demise, but I suspect there's more literary value, so to speak, in the Boltons than the Baratheons at this point.

Still...the Baratheon stag is one of the four family crests that adorn the TV show intro, and that alone makes me doubt myself. Could one of the houses really be done for with two seasons to go? A minor quibble, but there it is.

[Winter's Cold]

Perhaps. I see equally promising the prospects of our dangerous and loathsome Ramsey/Boltons on the one hand and the Others on (ahem) the other hand (with Castle Black and whatever form Jon takes in the middle) to become a northern shitstorm of Trumpian YUGE possibilities. Ramsey and his pops are together perhaps the most interestingly depraved and dangerous men in all Westeros (well, along with Balish), and I for one hope their evil shadow spreads with ample inhumanity abounding before it is blown back. I'm not HOPING either way, re: Stannis's demise, but I suspect there's more literary value, so to speak, in the Boltons than the Baratheons at this point.

Still...the Baratheon stag is one of the four family crests that adorn the TV show intro, and that alone makes me doubt myself. Could one of the houses really be done for with two seasons to go? A minor quibble, but there it is.

 

Tommen is still alive and legally he is a Baratheon.