The Blood of Starks: More magical than Targaryens

[KingofIce]

1 hour ago, 7-String said:

Nothing..

It's just a saying that the Starks have, to justify their continued control of Winterfell.  It's like saying there HAS to be a Tully in Riverrun. Well there doesn't have to be, if you've killed them all. 

Not to mention that there currently isn't any Stark in Winterfell so the saying is obviously untrue.

Technically there are Starks, they just happen to be bones and statues in the crypts. It might just be that they fear the crypts will be destroyed if they no longer hold the castle.

Is there any instances of the houses other then Stark saying they need to always be in a certain place? Killing them all is not the point. The point is there is something more to it, not that they want to rule the north or Winterfell. The saying is not Always king of the North, Starks always lord of Winterfell.

[PeacockB]

On 8/2/2015 at 8:16 AM, Lady Barbrey said:

Well OberynBlackfyre, I loved your original post, and hope you are alerted to duck in for a moment to see my post telling you so after a month of no activity on this thread.

 

I am wondering if what you've just done with this post is pinpointed why the Targaryan dragons began to lose their strength, size, virility over the next 200 years after coming to Westeros.  They weren't just killed off in the DwD.  They were growing smaller in size over those years and the last skeleton is just a sick spindly little thing.

 

Could it be because Torrhen bent the knee and became a lord instead of a king? Perhaps the curse doesn't fall on one person, but on an actual bloodline of people who presume to call themselves kings over the north without sharing the First Barrow King's genes?

 

I've been fascinated by the Dustins since the World Book came out.  I loved when you stated that by marrying into the Dustins, the Starks escape the CURSE, i.e, that no other king but one with Dustin blood from the first Barrow King could call himself king of the north, or they would be cursed to dwindle away to nothing.

 

Targaryans and their dragons are magically bound (however that was done) and the name "dragon" can be used almost interchangeably for man or beast.  In a scant few hundred years, there are only a few Targaryans left and no dragons at all.  Part of this is because of wars, but there must also be a reason that by the end almost all of Aerys' children were stillborn.

 

This seems too coincidental and I've always wondered about it. Was it the air? I wondered.  Perhaps sinister maesters from the Citadel?

 

But I think you've actually pegged it (if you agree with me that this makes sense?) that it could simply be a good old-fashioned curse laid by the rather formidable King of the First Men, Somebody or Other Dustin.

 

Dany was able to wake the dragons, and they seem like they'll grow to strong ones, as she appears to be becoming a strong woman.  But they were born in Essos. She was born on Dragonstone.  Neither have been raised anywhere near the kryptonite of old King Dustin's curse.  Most importantly, no Targaryan is currently king or queen of the North, the realm of the First Men.

 

Beauty.

What if the curse wasn't so much as who calls himself king of the north as who the people believe to be their ruler/oppresor.

And as the Greatjohn stated "it's the dragons we bowed to..."   in this i believe that the northeners never realy surrenderd to the Targaryens, but rather the Dragons and their human handelers, thus placing the curse on the creatures instead of the men.

[BricksAndSparrows]

On 6/19/2015 at 7:46 PM, OberynBlackfyre said:

Stock Stark Blood:

 

-Ok, from what we know, House Stark was created during The Long Night and the events either leading up to it, or what caused it's end. Many think they were the family that contained the Last Hero, or Azor Ahai, etc. However that is also at odds with the fact that House Dayne also seemingly came from The Long Night, has Dawn, and fits the proto-valyrian bill that someone wielding fire magic would seemingly have.

That being said, it is reasonable to think that even during their inception, the resulting House Stark had "magical properties" about themselves. We do not know whether or not they had warging abilities during this time, but we do know that Brandon the Builder either had some sort of special magic or knowledge that helped him build The Wall, Winterfell, and Storms End. We also know that Starks have always had a "sprinkle" of wolf's blood, that we ASSUME comes from when they were made during the Long Night.

-So it's reasonable to say that the original Stark blood contained: wolfs blood, (possible) warg elements, and (possible) Ice magic elements. The process in which their blood became imbued with these magics is still unknown, but it's reasonable to think that "warging" is hereditary through First Men, and Wolf's Blood could be a similar "shared" blood like the Valyrians/Dragons....though it could also just be that the Starks (as wargs) symbolically always used wolves as their vessels. Thus giving the family actual characteristics of the animals since they had shared their "soul" with them for so long. The ice magic properties is anyone's guess, but I think it's somewhat apparent that one existed certainly more than the other properties, because that could really be the only explanation for Brandon the Builder and how the Starks became "Kings of Winter", rulers of Winterfell (winter-fell)

I tend to think it is more about the blood of the first men.

I tend to think Bloodraven was a Warg, and I think it was his Blackwood heritage that passed him that gift.

[Pain killer Jane]

On 6/24/2015 at 2:01 PM, OberynBlackfyre said:

 

very nice explanation! I pretty much agree with everything other than the fact that Starks "lost" any of said mana when The King who Knelt gave fealty to Aegon.

 

I don't really think magic is symbolic in these terms, as many supernatural things within Planetos are also combined with genetics. Now for instance if Aegon took a daughter of Torrhen or a son to marry one of his daughters, then yes I would completely agree that some was lost, or at least intermingled with that of the Targaryens. However, that never happens at that point and time.............but it DOES happen later on when Bloodraven is born from a union between Aegon the Unworthy and a Blackwood woman----and given how powerful Bloodraven is, I think that says a lot. He might even have been part of the prince was promised thing, except he was at the wrong time. I mean think about it.

 

bloodravens deeds:

-Killed Daemon Blackfyre and his sons, ending the Blackfyre rebellion.

-Killed Fireball before the battle, thus taking away Daemons best protector/commander.

-Ended the second Blackfyre rebellion before it even began.

-took down the Red Kraken.

-killed another of the Blackfyre pretenders, sacrificing his honor for it.

-became Lord Commander of the NIght's Watch

-became the last greenseer and for decades has been setting in motion the protection of Planetos (most likely).

Sorry this is nearly a year late. 

Okay I will concede to that point. However, there is one aspect of mana that I did not expound upon on in my comment last year and it is in relation to balance. Mana is gained and lost through every action a person takes that effects the balance between the world and humanity. This balance is manifested in a prosperous society and if disaster struck-it would reveal that pono had been broken by the actions of those that possessed large amounts of mana. Therefore mana isn't symbolic, it is actively in use by those that possess it and try to increase their mana in order to affect pono (balance). 

Therefore when Torrhen knelt to Aegon, he effected the mana within the Stark family and affect the balance. This led to Queen Alysanne took away land from the Starks which is now fallow and unused and built another castle which caused the magical gate to be forgotten which you can admit that it is now vital. 

In terms of the loss of mana, remember that Ronnel Arryn married a daughter of Torrhen Stark per instruction of Rhenys Targaryen. The person who continued House Arryn after Ronnel and Jonos was a cousin and his Royce wife. 

In regards to the Blackwoods, I would agree that their family mana is linked to the Starks. We don't know why the Blackwoods' were kicked out of the North. The Manderly's were kicked out of The Reach but you don't see the Tyrells' marrying into their family or Tyrells' taking Manderly brides. I will concede that we don't have a complete family tree for the Manderlys' in the North or in the Reach nor a complete family Tree for the Tyrells between the conquest and Luthor and Olenna. So I could be wrong in this assumption. 

However, since 'The North Remembers' why would the ruling Starks allow their heirs to marry Blackwoods and they seem to be on good terms? I have a theory that the Blackwoods were the family associated with the Warg King and when he was defeated his daughters became brides of the Starks and the Blackwoods were ejected from the North instead of being exterminated like so many examples we have and also in the North. I associate the Blackwoods with the Warg King because of everything you delineated about Bloodraven and his massive amount of power. Plus we also have the case of Black Aly Blackwood asking a boon from Cregan Stark to allow the pardon of the Sea Snake to stand. So this could have been the case when the daughters married into the Starks. They could have asked for mercy as a bride gifts. 

I also want to point out that Aegon V did not betrothed any of his children to the Starks because he was against incest and the Stark children were 1st cousins of his own children through their Blackwood mothers. This action led to more of a disruption in pono. Had Aegon V married one of his children to their Stark cousin could have helped down the line but that is merely speculation as Robert was Aerys' first cousin once removed and that still didn't stop Robert from disposing his cousin.