What is Jon Snow's real name?

[zalim]

On 25.6.2016 at 10:55 AM, Darien Underhill said:

Then where is Rhaella's baby?

Rhaellas didnt have a baby, it died during childbirth 

danny was made up to be her baby

[Darien Underhill]

8 hours ago, zalim said:

Rhaellas didnt have a baby, it died during childbirth 

danny was made up to be her baby

What about her age? She's younger than Jon and Lyanna supposedly died during his birth.

How about the fact that Viserys was born after all Rhaella's stillbirths?

 

[zalim]

1 hour ago, Darien Underhill said:

What about her age? She's younger than Jon and Lyanna supposedly died during his birth.

How about the fact that Viserys was born after all Rhaella's stillbirths?

 

So Aegon was born in 281 or 282 (lets say 282 for the sake of theory) (months system is still not very clear so we arent sure)

Jon Snow was born 283 (now aegon died in the same year so if theory is true he would have been maybe 1 year old)

Dany was born 284 but if theory is correct she was born in 283  (dany was taken and viserys would have been too young to realise the difference

OR maybe viserys knew all along and played his part...

[Jon's Queen Consort]

On 26/8/2015 at 11:14 PM, aryagonnakill#2 said:

Its either Viserys Targaryen, or Viserys Sand, Rhaegar already had Aegon and Rhaenys, he still needed Visenya but he got a boy.

Visenya isn't the female for Viserys. Viserra, like Jaehaerys' daughter, seems to be closer to Viserys. He started a war for another girl he wouldn't had been ok with a boy.

10 hours ago, zalim said:

So Aegon was born in 281 or 282 (lets say 282 for the sake of theory) (months system is still not very clear so we arent sure)

Jon Snow was born 283 (now aegon died in the same year so if theory is true he would have been maybe 1 year old)

Dany was born 284 but if theory is correct she was born in 283  (dany was taken and viserys would have been too young to realise the difference

OR maybe viserys knew all along and played his part...

GRRM has told us when Jon and Dany were born.

[scotcat]

Well, Jon could very well be his true name -in the books, at least.  Jon as in Jon Connington.  It may not have been Ned who named him at all.

As for the show...who knows? Viserys is a likely option, in my mind.

[zalim]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Visenya isn't the female for Viserys. Viserra, like Jaeharys' daughter, seems to be closer to Viserys. He started a war for another girl he wouldn't had been ok with a boy.

GRRM has told us when Jon and Dany were born.

where? when?

[Jon's Queen Consort]

3 minutes ago, zalim said:

where? when?

Quote

We know from this e-mail that Jon’s birth is 8-9 months prior to Daenerys’s, and that Daenerys is born almost precisely 9 months after the death of Rhaegar and the Sack of King’s Landing (I: 25). This would place Jon’s birth within one month, give or take, of the Sack. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/FAQ/Entry/Who_are_Jon_Snows_parents/

 

[Noelle Snow]

In one of his blog posts several years back. He said when they were born and he also said who gave them their names. He said Jon was towards the end of RR, may have said after the Sack but I can't recall and that Jon is 8 or 9 months older than Dany. Then at another time when asked who named the main three protagonists he said "Tyrion was named by his father, Dany by her mother, Jon was named by Ned".

[zalim]

1 hour ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

well if Jon was fake and ned lied about it, it doesnt matter what his official DOB is because its fake 

like we know cerseis 3 bastards and they are officially Roberts children yet the truth is different...

[Jon's Queen Consort]

2 minutes ago, zalim said:

well if Jon was fake and ned lied about it, it doesnt matter what his official DOB is because its fake 

like we know cerseis 3 bastards and they are officially Roberts children yet the truth is different...

This is what the author said and isn't in the books and I don't think that he lies.

[zalim]

Just now, Jon's Queen Consort said:

This is what the author said and I don't think that he lies.

in many interviews when jon snow is mentioned he is mentioned as Neds bastard and that is the official status of Jon so if it turns out he is not Neds bastards would that mean martin was lying all along?????

[Jon's Queen Consort]

Just now, zalim said:

in many interviews when jon snow is mentioned he is mentioned as Neds bastard and that is the official status of Jon so if it turns out he is not Neds bastards would that mean martin was lying all along?????

Yet Jon's birthday isn't in the books, it isn't something that he needs to hide. And even if Jon doesn't had Ned's blood he is Ned's son.

[zalim]

10 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yet Jon's birthday isn't in the books, it isn't something that he needs to hide. And even if Jon doesn't had Ned's blood he is Ned's son.

lol there are many confusing birthdays all over the story, doenst matter if jon aegon theory is correct or right but for the sake of argument lets assume its correct, thn in the context of the story yes he is lying because the whole jon snow personality would be a lie the JON SNOW was born when he said he was born thats what ppl of westeros know but if the theory is correct NED knows the truth about it same thing applies here with R + L = J, the assumption that this is true is stil a THEORY unless we read it ourselves in the books and if it turns out it was true it would mean Jon Snow the way Ned made ppl believe was a personality created by him to fool others same rules apply here..

We are not discussing emotional aspect of things, ned wasnt without fault, he owns Jon alot, he let him suffer by the hand of dumb and idiotic catelyn his whole life, he could have done ALOT to prevent that yet hiding the truth all the same but he didnt, so JON was his son? no i dont think so... 

[Jon's Queen Consort]

6 hours ago, zalim said:

lol there are many confusing birthdays all over the story,

Yet this is what the author has told and there is no reason for us to question him.

6 hours ago, zalim said:

doenst matter if jon aegon theory is correct or right but for the sake of argument lets assume its correct, thn in the context of the story yes he is lying because the whole jon snow personality would be a lie the JON SNOW was born when he said he was born thats what ppl of westeros know but if the theory is correct NED knows the truth about it same thing applies here with R + L = J, the assumption that this is true is stil a THEORY unless we read it ourselves in the books and if it turns out it was true it would mean Jon Snow the way Ned made ppl believe was a personality created by him to fool others same rules apply here..

That doesn't make sense.

6 hours ago, zalim said:

We are not discussing emotional aspect of things, ned wasnt without fault, he owns Jon alot, he let him suffer by the hand of dumb and idiotic catelyn his whole life, he could have done ALOT to prevent that yet hiding the truth all the same but he didnt, so JON was his son? no i dont think so... 

Jon himself has told 

Quote

He is not my father. The thought leapt unbidden to Jon's mind. Lord Eddard Stark is my father. I will not forget him, no matter how many swords they give me.

So Ned was his father.

[Princess of Dragonflies]

I honestly believe that Jaehaerys is Jon's true first name, with Jon being his middle name...(did they have middle names in the books, I can't remember.) but obviously only Ned and maybe Howland know it. Plus, a lot of  King Jaeherys' I reign sounds like a reign that Jon would bring about.

[zalim]

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Yet this is what the author has told and there is no reason for us to question him.

Offcourse we have, if you have read his other work you would question everything before accepting it for a fact but seems like you havent.

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

That doesn't make sense.

 

you need logic, if you can apply that it would make more sense.

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

Jon himself has told 

 

because JON doesnt know that his UNCLE punished him for something he DIDNT had to suffer.

2 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

So Ned was his father.

thats what jon thinks because he is thinking he is just a bastard of Ned stark with some low born women

once he realises he is (MAYBE the true king of westeros) or atleast bastard of the royalest blood you can imagine and he didnt have eto suffer the hate from Cat all his life, he will realise that NED was never a father or a DAD to him.

Ned paid the price for this evil crime

so did cat 

and so did sansa by treating a motherless child in such a way

[Jon's Queen Consort]

12 minutes ago, zalim said:

and so did sansa by treating a motherless child in such a way

Utter bs. Sansa was a bit spoiled brat true but she didn't abused Jon at all.

12 minutes ago, zalim said:

Offcourse we have, if you have read his other work you would question everything before accepting it for a fact but seems like you havent.

you need logic, if you can apply that it would make more sense.

You don't make sense. GRRM had no reason to lie, if what he has told was wrong he wouldn't had lied but he would had told "keep reading" like he does when something will be revealed in the future.

12 minutes ago, zalim said:

once he realises he is (MAYBE the true king of westeros) or atleast bastard of the royalest blood you can imagine and he didnt have eto suffer the hate from Cat all his life, he will realise that NED was never a father or a DAD to him.

I am sorry but not sure if you know how love works. Ned risked everything for Jon everything. If anyone had told who his parents were Tywin would had killed everyone in order to kill Jon. I don't believe that a child who isn't an entitled brat will be like "OMG! I am a prince and he brought me up as a bastard! HE IS A MONSTER!!!1!!" and it's something that is exactly the opposite of Jon's character.

By your logic what Ned should had done?

12 minutes ago, zalim said:

so did cat 

What Cat did to Jon was at first hybris with Jon’s emotional abuse and ate when she said It should've been you.

[zalim]

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Utter bs. Sansa was a bit spoiled brat true but she didn't abused Jon at all.

 

yes she paid for being a spoiled brat, spoiled brats pay like that in the books, She wasnt a bit spoiled she was the fine example of what it means to be truly spoiled, arrogant and ignorant maniac. She will pay even more.

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

You don't make sense. GRRM had no reason to lie, if what he has told was wrong he wouldn't had lied but he would had told "keep reading" like he does when something will be revealed in the future.

 

GRRM is not lying he is just saying according to the BOOKS thats when JON was born and he is saying according to the BOOKS jon is Neds bastard child so now i will dumb it down for you the logic behind what i am saying 

R + L = J ( if this theory is correct thn unless it is revealed in the book, JON will remain Neds son but when it is revealed we will see OK it was a lie NED told everyone about JON

now that GRRM only gave us the info that the common ppl of westeros know or suspect, the info that NED told everyone so if it turns out ned was indeed lying it is also possible that he was also lying about jons dob and MARTIN will reveal the real DOB to  us just like he might reveal jons true parentage.

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

I am sorry but not sure if you know how love works. Ned risked everything for Jon everything. If anyone had told who his parents were Tywin would had killed everyone in order to kill Jon. I don't believe that a child who isn't an entitled brat will be like "OMG! I am a prince and he brought me up as a bastard! HE IS A MONSTER!!!1!!" and it's something that is exactly the opposite of Jon's character.

By your logic what Ned should had done?

What Cat did to Jon was at first hybris with Jon’s emotional abuse and ate when she said It should've been you.

love works differently for every person, some lovers love to share their partners some are more jealous, some believe in protecting their children from harm because of love some give them more freedome to find their own path because they love them, its not even about love

NED had love for lyanna and he did it for his PROMISE to lyanna, keeping PROMISE was more important for him...

HE was the LORD and warden of the north he could have just told his damn idiotic wife to treat him better instead of like the way she did

if she can lie to his wife he can also tell her to stop with the bs.

He could have send him to some lord to be fostered instead of letting him join the NW or suffer the hate for no reason.

He doesnt need to be his father to think like that a loving uncle would do the same. 

3 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

 

What Cat did to Jon was at first hybris with Jon’s emotional abuse and ate when she said It should've been you.

you can see cats hatred that how much she hated jon and even if he was a bastard of her husband (in that world it wasnt something that huge) he was just a child, she could have just ignored and not talk about it instead of hating on him, and she did hate on him you can tell how blackfish talk about jon, if is obvious she talked to her family bout it.. oh well her throat was slit so i am good

[Jon's Queen Consort]

1 hour ago, zalim said:

yes she paid for being a spoiled brat, spoiled brats pay like that in the books, She wasnt a bit spoiled she was the fine example of what it means to be truly spoiled, arrogant and ignorant maniac. She will pay even more.

Again she didn't abused him she was a typical highborn girl who had a seltered life and when she was 11 when the series started. 

1 hour ago, zalim said:

GRRM is not lying he is just saying according to the BOOKS thats when JON was born and he is saying according to the BOOKS jon is Neds bastard child so now i will dumb it down for you the logic behind what i am saying 

[...]

now that GRRM only gave us the info that the common ppl of westeros know or suspect, the info that NED told everyone so if it turns out ned was indeed lying it is also possible that he was also lying about jons dob and MARTIN will reveal the real DOB to  us just like he might reveal jons true parentage.

In the books its only said that Jon was younger than Robb. By his words at the SSM he is very clear when Jon was born something that he didn't needed to be so clear about it.

1 hour ago, zalim said:

HE was the LORD and warden of the north he could have just told his damn idiotic wife to treat him better instead of like the way she did

True.

1 hour ago, zalim said:

you can see cats hatred that how much she hated jon and even if he was a bastard of her husband (in that world it wasnt something that huge) he was just a child, she could have just ignored and not talk about it instead of hating on him, and she did hate on him you can tell how blackfish talk about jon, if is obvious she talked to her family bout it.. oh well her throat was slit so i am good

I agree that Cat was abusive to Jon. It's obvious that she had abused him emotionally since he was a small child. I don't disagree with you.

1 hour ago, zalim said:

love works differently for every person, some lovers love to share their partners some are more jealous, some believe in protecting their children from harm because of love some give them more freedome to find their own path because they love them, its not even about love

 

What I meant was that Jon will not change his feelings about Ned when he learns that Rhaegar was the sperm donor. On the contrary when he will learn that Ned risked everything and even tarnished his own precious honor he will love him even more.

[zalim]

4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

Again she didn't abused him she was a typical highborn girl who had a seltered life and when she was 11 when the series started. 

 

Yes but he had no place in her world where she saw him as a taint, she changed in later books offcoruse after suffering alot offcourse i would give this fault to her mother and father more, now i dont remember if its from the first book or the show but is there a place where jon said he didnt get to sit with stark children when they ate? when other lords were around? 

 

4 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

In the books its only said that Jon was younger than Robb. By his words at the SSM he is very clear when Jon was born something that he didn't needed to be so clear about it.

 

maybe because he didnt think of a big twist? or planned on revealing later on with details all i am saying is if he can lie about jon being neds bastard he can also lie about his DoB

 

5 hours ago, Jon's Queen Consort said:

What I meant was that Jon will not change his feelings about Ned when he learns that Rhaegar was the sperm donor. On the contrary when he will learn that Ned risked everything and even tarnished his own precious honor he will love him even more.

lol so  Jon finds out that his whole life he lived like a bastard (assuming R and L married) which he was not or even if he was, he was hated by Cat because she thought her husband cheated on her and brought this taint back home with him and common sense dictates, NED could have given him better life even by hiding the truth... NED did what he did for the love of LYANNA, he might love Jon a  bit cuz of his blood or cuz he reminded him of lyanna but saying that he loved him like his father that simply isnt true... if he had loved him like that he would have done ALOT more for him he might have made him a stark i mean cmon Robert was his best friend i dont think robert would have refused NED...

Ned was a very powerfull lord and  had a huge influence on Robert once it was established that JON is Neds bastard son, ned could have done alot for Jon to make his life better but ned simply didnt... he let the motherless kid suffer, now JON might forgive ned and everyone because well JON is JON and ppl love him because he has that kind of heart, NED didnt do much for JON but in order for JON to become  Jon as we know him, he was written in that way... JON is by no means my favourite character, i like characters who play the game like littlefinger or varys, Doran, arianne even Dany but Jon is like a last proper ember of GOOD in that world so thats why i feel bad for him.