Adapting ASOIAF For the Screen...

[Zulofritter]

Zulo-

I like that you've broken it down by scenes... makes it a bit clearer as to the content... however, without page numbers, it's hard to get a sense of length...

I may include page numbers with a later version, but it would be slightly deceptive to include them now (if time is the issue). There is a lot of history and internal dialogue that was cut, so the length of many of these scenes has changed. Much of this info could get back in somehow...

My only comment is that the bulk of Dany's prep in that first sequence, at least in the novels, is about her youth, and her wanting to be a child, and her memories of the house with the red door. Those are *really* important to understanding Dany... and I would like to see a sequence where we watch her grow up, from her arrival, to Darry's death, to them being forced out, to being beggars, to their arrival at Illyrio's. So much of Dany's character is shaped by that intro... In the way you've broken it out, the focus is less on that than her relationship with Viserys.

This is really worth considering. She has a flashback to a prior conversation with Viserys, so that seemed easy to incorporate. I'd rather let the audience get the necessary information over the course of the season, so that it's not immediately clear that she is the major character of the sequence. Also, montage flashbacks make me nervous. I don't have a very elegant solution here, and I'd like to hear some ideas.

- The only other problem I see is length... not a major one here, but one to be aware of. Going by page lengths (which is the most accurate measure we seem to have), then your Ep.1 clocks in at 62 minutes... it could probably be scrunched down to fit in the hour, I have no doubt. *However*, given the overall page length, the average page/episode should be around 50 minutes. Then the material in each episode would be stretched to hit an hour. By going 12 minutes over, your other episodes will have to be consistently shorter, and will likewise need more stretching to hit the hour mark. Just something to be aware of.

Ep.2

- The length... where Ep.1 was a bit too long, Ep.2 is way too short. By page count, I come up with a 39 minute episode...

I'm concerned about this, but until more is written it is hard to gauge. I think my page counts might have been different. Episode 1 has more pages of unfilmable stuff cut, and Episode 2 has several longer scenes. Some scenes in 2 are missing, such as the flashbacks when Ned and Robert are talking. Even if 2 still comes up shorter, we do have a plot reason for a slower pace; Bran falling takes the wind out of everyone. The fall also creates more overt conflict to be mined, such as Tyrion needling his family, or the tension between Cat and Jon.

A more awkward solution would be to move a Dany scene to 2. If we do this the Dany scenes in 1 have less direction. As the series continues it appears easier to me to shift Dany and the Wall plotlines; the other plots are very closely tied together.

Ep.3

- It seems a bit scattered, in that we're bouncing around a lot, and not keeping with any one storyline. Sansa I, alone, has three different scenes and locations... so to go from that to the Wall, back to the Trident, then to introduce King's Landing for the very first time with Catelyn's rushed arrival, back to the Wall, then to Eddard's arrival to King's Landing, then to the Small Council, then to the brothel... I'm worried that it's too much.

As Antacid has pointed out, transitions are easier where there's some continuity... like continuity of character. By staying with Sansa throughout her three scenes, it's easier to follow. We know where we are, because we watch her go from A to B to C. In my breakdown, I keep us with Sansa, and then follow Eddard all the way to King's Landing... Let his entrance introduce the city. Then follow him, unbroken, to the Small Council, and then to the brothel. We see Catelyn, and then follow her from Winterfell, through the assassination, to the boat, to the brothel. All the while, they're talking about Bran. So at the end, we return to Winterfell to Bran. The continuity of characters makes the scene changes easier to follow.

I understand what you're saying, and I'm not entirely convinced that I have the best approach. However, dividing a characters story and feeding it in pieces over the course of an episode is a staple in most TV shows that come to mind. There's several reasons to do this. It suggests the passage of time in other scenes. It makes the audience less fatigued if they've been following a character or plot that they don't like. And maybe more importantly, it gives us some options by the time we get to Feast, where several characters only have one or two chapters. This is another area where I think we could have some good discussion.

- Finally, I noticed that you split Jon's change of heart scene from the rest of Jon III... and I understand that you did this for continuity (it happens *after* Bran wakes up). But I'd leave it in... and just cut the letter telling Jon about Bran. Consider this: Jon is being an angry bully. Donal Noye gives him a stern lecture, and Jon is ashamed. But it's not until he gets a letter about Bran that he gets happy and friendly, and offers to teach Grenn. This puts the cause of Jon's change on the letter, instead of the lecture.

I'm not sure I like that as much... I think it'd be a better sign of Jon's growing maturity if he was reasoned into being good by Noye... rather than a fluke bit of good news. The latter leaves him as emotionally immature as before, a tantrum eased by distraction. Whereas the former suggests that Jon is mature enough to realize he was wrong when shown the evidence. I think that fits his character development a bit better.

This is the kind of change I'm reluctant to make, but I like it. It's better because it comes at the end, where you would want to see some character development. If we did this however, I would still want a quick scene at the top of the next ep where he gets the good news. It's good for continuity, and it catches up viewers who missed the last 5 minutes of the last ep. It also indirectly relays the info that Bran didn't wake up babbling about how Jamie pushed him, which I wanted to be clear about.

Quick note, are we going to have to close this thread soon?

[Michael Jon Snow]

Before this thread gets closed (It is getting close) I just want to inteject my own crackpot theory.

I think our good friend Measter Y actually is working for HBO. To save mony they are not hiring a pre-production crew and are using us as free labor to storyboard the entire project. When Maester Y assigns script writing duties and he sends out a small disclaimer than any submitted work is the property of HBO, don't say I didn't warn you!

[Maester Yobjascz]

Zulo -

Timing's always an issue... but page count is the best reference we've got, at least until someone scripts things out.

As to Dany's background as a flashback montage... it's only a flashback if you start in the present, transition to the past, and then progress to the present again. I agree that, if poorly done, it can come off as artificial... As such, I try to avoid it.

However, I think we can make it a bit more subtle and improve the odds of avoiding artifice if we transition from Robert and Eddard discussing the Targaryens (I prefer Ep.2 as they ride, but I know you'd like the intro in Ep.1...)

... to a young Dany, maybe 5-6 years old, playing in front of the house with the Red Door. She hears Ser Darry yelling inside, and she rushes in... an elderly Darry is being helped by a servant back into a bed, and Darry continues to yell that he needs none of their help. Darry sees Dany, offers a few kind words and calls her his 'little princess', and tells her to go back out to the yard. Dany turns to go, and ...

... We then see a slightly older Dany (~6-7) years old, with her brother next to her, being shoved out of the same house by those same servants... the house is dark, and Dany is crying for Ser Darry... one of the servants rudely reminds her that he's dead, and shuts the door behind them. Viserys takes Dany's hand, looks at her sadly, and leads them out of the yard...

... and into an inn. Dany (now ~8-9) has just crawled into bed. Viserys comes by, sits on the bed next to her, and begins telling her a story about her brother Rhaegar and the tourney at Harrenhall. An older man bursts into the room, and demands that they leave. Viserys objects, pointing to Dany, but the man is obstinate, yelling about money and tabs unpaid. Viserys helps Dany into warm clothes, and leads her out of the inn. When the door shuts behind them, we see that the door is red...

... and into a poor urban district, where Dany (now ~10-11) and her older brother are huddled in rags, fearfully looking over their shoulders, and ducking into doorways to avoid the rain. One of the doorways has a red door, dirty and hidden by shadow... Dany looks at it longingly. The lights inside are bright, and there are kind voices inside... "The Usurpers' knives are everywhere" murmers Viserys, as they continue running down the dark alley...

... and into a modest hall, where Dany (now ~11-12) and Viserys are finishing a meal. Dany is looking out the window past a busy street, full of merchants hawking their wares, at a red door. The merchants politely tell Viserys that they were honored to break bread with a King, but cannot offer their aid. They show Viserys and Dany the door, and the merchants laughingly mutter "Beggar King" as the door closes. Viserys takes Dany by the hand, and leads her off ...

... into a room, where he hands Dany (now 13) a dress of fine silk from Illyrio Mopatis... and we've arrived at the beginning of Dany I.

It's not a long sequence. Fairly short actually... each segment is just a few seconds. However, it introduces Dany and Viserys. It highlights Dany's thoughts of the house with the red door, and normalcy. It hints at Viserys' paranoia, but also shows his good side. It introduces a pair of characters who have suffered and pushed out into the world. It gives some context for why Dany doesn't want to be married off, and why Viserys gets angry with her for it.

As for the other points... I tend to agree with you. Just a few other comments though:

- The bouncing around becomes a bit inevitable in some ways, but finding ways to link scenes together is still important... It's why I'm not really that happy with my ACoK breakdown just yet.

- Finally, as to thread closure... not my call. We'll see what happens.

-------------------------

Before this thread gets closed (It is getting close) I just want to inteject my own crackpot theory.

I think our good friend Measter Y actually is working for HBO. To save mony they are not hiring a pre-production crew and are using us as free labor to storyboard the entire project. When Maester Y assigns script writing duties and he sends out a small disclaimer than any submitted work is the property of HBO, don't say I didn't warn you!

I suppose we'll see about that, huh?

[Zulofritter]

As to Dany's background as a flashback montage... it's only a flashback if you start in the present, transition to the past, and then progress to the present again. I agree that, if poorly done, it can come off as artificial... As such, I try to avoid it.

There's a lot of flashbacks in the series, and I'm pretty comfortable with that. A montage flashback shows a series of scenes that happen in different timeframes. I really like yours, but there would be some problems, like casting the actors for each age.

I did think about fitting more of Dany's history into the ep. 2 ride, but I also thought I might include a later scene where Drogo hears some of it.

[Maester Yobjascz]

A montage flashback shows a series of scenes that happen in different timeframes. I really like yours, but there would be some problems, like casting the actors for each age.

Thanks. One possibility would be to cast two girls for Dany... the main, and a younger girl. The younger could do the earlier sequences, and the older the later sequences in that montage. Makeup, clothing, and hairstyle would go a *long* way to showing some slight variations in age.

[Zulofritter]

Thanks. One possibility would be to cast two girls for Dany... the main, and a younger girl. The younger could do the earlier sequences, and the older the later sequences in that montage. Makeup, clothing, and hairstyle would go a *long* way to showing some slight variations in age.

I was in a rush when I typed that, what I actually should have said is that the problem is the budget. I know we don't have to care about this in our theoretical script, but it can be fun to work around restrictions. Fun for me, anyways. :cool:

I know, just a few posts ago I was pushing the other way for a pet scene of mine, but all of this is relative. For example, my preference would be to show the flashback when Ned talks about Jamie on the throne, and not to show the flashback when Tyrion talks about his marriage to Bronn. But this decision has a lot of factors; what's already been filmed, what actors and sets are available, personal taste (how mysterious should the mad king be? do we need to see a gang rape?). There's also whether you want to emphasize the flashback or the present interaction.

I bring this up because I doubt this montage is going at the beginning of the series, so the logical choice is within a conversation. (I remember a similar scene in Citizen Kane, where the couple get bored with each other.) And though I don't think I would do it, I know it could be done very well.

[PhoenixFlame]

As to Dany's background as a flashback montage...(snip snip)

Wow, I really like that!

Probably the thing I like most about it is how it gives a really good character introduction and shows how they change. Viserys was terrible when the series began but Dany seemed to love him even when he scared her. That seemed to hint he had been nicer at one time, and the constant running and begging made his Targ craziness pop through. Wasn't it also mentioned that he was the one who educated her? I think it would be really poignant to show how much he goes from being an angry beggar to a crazy megalomaniac.

[Doza]

Opening sequence...

Fade in...

You see white, cold and snow a huge wall of ice. A group of three, moving out... a long trail of footsteps/hoofprints in the snow. Out in the cold. One stays behind with the mounts while the other two look around. One is a cocky brazen young lordling. The other is older, and harder. He climbs a tree for a view. It gets colder, very cold. The darkness closes in. Then the blue eyes. A battle. The lordling fights well, but is no match. The scout waits...minutes seems like hours. He climbs down, moves close to the lordlings corpse. The corpses eyes turn blue and the corpse comes alive....the scout dies.

Fades out from an eye of a man, or rather a head. His body is shaking. He is not afraid of death, he is afraid of what he saw. His last thoughts as Eddards sword comes down.

cue intro...

[Zulofritter]

Interesting. Does this mean that you would cut all the dialogue from the prologue?

[CryHavoc]

I'm rather fond of the prologue dialogue. It gives us information about the wildlings, the wall, and the watch. Plus if we don't know the that wildlings were there and then disappeared, we can't shout, "No, Will, run away!" when he goes down to check on Royce's body. Okay, maybe not that part, but if you loose the dialogue you have absolutely no idea why these random people are running through the snow.

[Michael Jon Snow]

Actually that gives me an idea. Not to eliminate the dialogue from prologue, but to add a scene from the end with Garron fleeing the Others and the fear on his face and then a direct transition to the execution.

This would show how the rest of the realm, even in the North, didn't understand the eminent danger.

[Zulofritter]

Episode 5 - The Melee

1. Janos Slynt reports to the small council.

2. Eddard reads Houses of the Seven Kingdoms in his chambers before Jory arrives.

3. Eddard meets Gendry in the armory.

4. Cat and Rodrik arrive at the inn, then capture Tyrion. [some of the events that happen here are in T4]

5. Sansa goes to the Hand's tourney. [The tourney may be abbreviated or split into multiple scenes, depending on what suits the episode best.]

6. Sansa attends the feast where Robert states that he will fight in the melee.

7. The Hound escorts Sansa back to her room.

8. Tyrion watches his horse get butchered on the road to the Vale. Cat asks Tyrion about the murder, and they are attacked by bandits.

9. Eddard talks to Ser Barristan over the corpse of Ser Hugh.

Eddard goes to Robert's tent, where Robert tries to fit into his armor.

10. Eddard watches the rest of the tournament.

11. At the feast Ned sees Arya's bruises from training.

12. Varys meets Ned in his chambers. [When Varys says that Hugh was killed, I would show a peasant shoveling dirt over the bloodstains on the field.]

Episode 6 - Catching Cats

1. Arya chases a cat, then runs from the guards when Tommen sees her. [Counted as one scene, though it involves multiple locations.]

2. Once in the dark hallway, Arya hears the conversation. [A difficult scene. Assuming we want to hide the identity of these two, Varys could be in a disguise, and possibly using a different voice. We can avoid showing the faces, though a shadowy Arya is the only other thing to point the camera at.]

3. Cat meets Blackfish at the Bloody Gate.

4. Arya goes from the sewer to the guardhouse, and demands entry.

5. Arya sees Ned, who doesn't believe her.

6. Desmond tells Arya that her father is well protected.

7. Lord Nestor greets Cat at the Gates of the Moon. [Cat's travel sequence might be long, high budget, or even boring. I'd keep as much as I could, but they would be the first scenes to be cut.

8. Viserys wants to march on Westeros, and Dany is reluctant. She slaps him, which is awesome.

9. Mya takes Cat up a narrow path to Sky.

10. At Sky Cat rides up a basket.

11. Ser Vardis Egen and Maester Colemon take Cat to Lysa. Lysa brings the crazy as she says Cat shouldn't have brought Tyrion.

12. The small council discusses killing Dany, and Ned resigns. [Varys can refuse to give Jorah's name if we want to keep that secret.]

13. Back in his chambers, Ned plans to go back to Winterfell, and Littefinger enters.

14. Bran comes across the wildlings in the forest, and is rescued. [The conversation in B5 about Ned's injury is cut or moved for continuity. Not the best solution, of course.]

15. Ned and Littlefinger leave Chataya's brothel and are surrounded by Lannisters. Hilarity ensues.

Episode 7 - Trial

1. The Tower of Joy. [i know, I'm listing a dream sequence, and I really wanted to open with Tyrion in the cell, but this opening is just too cool.]

2. Ned wakes up, makes funeral arrangements for his men with Vayon. [E10 split in 2.]

3. Tyrion is trapped in the sky cell. [T5 split in 3.]

4. Ned meets Robert and Cersei, and there is a heated exchange. Robert slaps Cersei, and she leaves. Robert insists that Ned is still Hand.

Tyrion is tormented by Mord, but he bribes him to tell Lysa that he is ready to confess.

5. Jon is promoted to a Night Watch member. [J5 split in 2.]

6. At night Ser Vardis brings Tyrion to the High Hall. With everyone watching, Tyrion asks for trial by combat, and Bronn and Ser Vardis agree to be champions.

7. Jon looks around for Sam.

8. Jon asks Maester Aemon to help Samwell.

9. Cat and Ser Rodrik talk about the host Jamie is raising. Cat convinces Brynden to join them.

10. Cat, Tyrion and others watch the trial, which Bronn lives. [This should be a good long sequence. Catelyn flashes back to the duel between Brandon and Littlefinger; I don't know if this should be included or not.]

11. Ned listens to the people talk about the Lannister Raids. He sends Beric, Thoros and others to deal with them.

12. In the wilderness, Tyrion tells Bronn about his marriage.

13. Tyrion wakes in the night, surrounded by clansmen...

Episode 8 - The Crown

1. Tyrion promises to arm the clansmen if they escort him.

2. At dinner, Sansa tells Jeyne that Ned should have sent Loras instead.

3. After dinner, Littlefinger tells Sansa that life is not a song.

4. Sansa watches Beric party ride off in the morning.

5. Sansa and Arya fight at breakfast, and they are sent to their rooms.

6. Dany eats a horse heart. [D5 split in 2.]

7. Ned tells Arya and Sansa that they are to be sent back to Winterfell. Sansa says that Joffrey is nothing like Robert, and an anachronistic light bulb appears over Ned's head.

8. Pycelle tends to Ned's leg. After he leaves, Ned meets with Littlefinger. He has tomard deliver a message to Cersei. [This scene has Ned thinking several plans that he doesn't trust anyone enough to tell; this could be difficult to translate. E12 split in 2.]

9. Viserys is crowned.

10. Cersei is rebuffed by Ned in the godswood.

11. Ned is woken and informed that Robert has returned.

12. Ned sees that Robert is mortally wounded. Robert calls off Dany's assassination and makes out a will.

13. Ned talks to Varys, then Renly on the way back to his chamber.

14. In his chambers, Ned gives orders, writes to Stannis, and meets Littlefinger.

15. Sam & Jon meet the others in the sept.

16. Sam & Jon go to a nearby grove to swear their oath to the old gods. With impeccable comic timing, Ghost shows up with a severed hand.

17. At breakfast, Pycelle tells Ned that Robert is dead.

18. A small council is convened, but they are summoned by Joffrey.

19. In the throne room, Cersei rips up the kings letter, Ned refuses to swear fealty, Ned's men are killed, and Littlefinger puts a knife to Ned's throat. No recount in Florida, at least.

20. Syrio tells Arya the story about the cat. Ser Meryn shows up with 5 Lannister guards... [Alright, I'm a little sad to see the ending go where Viserys dies, but there are 3 stronger endings. The first is to end it with scene 19, which is good, but I'd like to show how the chaos extends. Ending the episode with Syrio surrounded by 6 guys is a good cliffhanger, but my preference is to show Syrio kill the 5, then make it clear that Syrio is sacrificing himself so Arya can escape.]

[Maester Yobjascz]

Zulo - Looks good... I'll take a closer look when I get a chance later...

Everyone else:

There are some who think that characters like Theon Greyjoy and Lord Walder Frey are evil... I tend to think that there are few, if any, truly evil characters in ASOIAF. One of the strengths of GRRM's writing, I believe, is that the characters are all shades of gray. None are completely good, none are completely bad. It's the fact that any of the characters can be sympathized with, or pitied, at some point, that makes them believable... it also keeps the books interesting, because you don't know who to root for sometimes.

That said, how would you bring some of these across on screen? For example, a lot of Theon's pathos comes from the fact that he's trying to be lordly, and failing. He's trying to do what he was sent to do, but finds the situation (and his previous bad decisions) pulling him further and further from his goals. But how do we show this?

Lord Frey is more difficult, but perhaps more important... we need to show the audience *why* Frey does what he does. The Red Wedding is not something done lightly... the audience had better understand the mechanics of *why* Robb had to die. But how?

I'm looking for ideas here... dialogue if that's your suggestion, lens changes, camera angles, lighting... whatever. Thoughts?

[Michael Jon Snow]

I am not opposed to some of the internal monologue being done as voice over. It would be another way to distinguish who's POV we are seeing the story through. (Especially when more than one POV chr is in a scene.)

That would resolve a lot of Theon as we can understand his goals if he explains them within his own thoughts.

For Lord Frey it would be more difficult. I am all for leaving him cantankerous and 2 dimensional.

Just watched the Masterpiece Theater version of Jane Eyre. (My wife is a huge fan, so I have been subjected to 3 different versions.)

The male lead is a dark and brooding man who hates the world and his lot in life and his love interest breaks into his gloom and saves him from his own misery. This particular version did a very good job of capturing his dark and brooding. Perhaps something similar but with rude, pridefull and self important.

[Zulofritter]

Frey is a little difficult because you also have to show that most of the realm doesn't understand his motivations, or they understand but disregard them. You get quite a bit of Frey's personality in his first negotiation with Catelyn, and I would cut down that conversation a bit. I'm not sure why they spent so much time talking about who wanted to adopt Flyboy Arryn.

A lot of the character detail is going to get lost onscreen. However, what an actor can bring to a character is a good substitute. If you cast the right actor, the audience can figure out why Theon smiles all the time, or why Sandor won't take a knight's vows.

[PhoenixFlame]

I don't agree with the usage of internal dialogue. Too often it becomes cheap and clunky.

In the movie Sin City, internal dialogue worked well but the entire style of the movie supported it. The entire movie was built around characters and their troubled minds. Also, the internal dialogue was done just right. A very good mix of lyrical, humorous, and terribley sad, despite the layer of grit the characters all had. But as well, Sin City is over the top. The over the top dialogue goes with it.

I think it would be very difficult to get good-sounding internal dialogue that doesn't seem like a cheap soap opera escape route.

[Maester Yobjascz]

To take a tangent on a tangent, the subject of voice-overs and narration comes up quite frequently. I'm generally not a big fan of the technique, as it's not often done well... but there are exceptions.

To resurrect a thought I'd had earlier, we could use different techniques for different PoV's. Some characters could have a voice-over narration, others could mutter their thoughts under their breath, and others might keep a diary or journal. Not only would it keep a single technique from getting stale, but it would also help distinguish the PoV's. Obviously, not all PoV's would be so distinctive... most would use a combination of techniques, or try to rely on bringing thoughts out in dialogue or good acting.

For example, I think Cersei would mutter under her breath quite frequently... we might show it occasionally before AFfC, but with increasing frequency as she gets more and more loony. Conversely, Sansa's innocence and girlish-ness might be well suited to her keeping a diary, jotting down thoughts at the beginning and ends of her scenes... and perhaps in the middle, should the opportunity arise. Once she begins to become Alayne, however, perhaps the journal-writing ceases, and switches to a more subtle technique. Catelyn, for some reason, I've always seen as having a "Desperate Housewives" style voice-over... explaining her thoughts and her reasoning. Eddard is lost in history, often thinking back to the past... so lots of flashbacks, obviously.

What do people think of this approach, and how would you approach the different PoV's?

[Maester Yobjascz]

- Phoenix:

Personally, I think that the characters thoughts and their troubled minds are the center of ASOIAF, and why it's so great... but I agree that using voice-overs is generally clunky and takes some skill and planning to do well...

... which is why I'm raising it. You agree that it *can* be done well, but needs to be well thought-out. So let's think it out. I'm not saying it *has* to be used, nor that if it is used, it has to be used at every opportunity... just that we shouldn't dismiss it simply because it's difficult or takes some effort to do right.

[PhoenixFlame]

- Phoenix:

Personally, I think that the characters thoughts and their troubled minds are the center of ASOIAF, and why it's so great... but I agree that using voice-overs is generally clunky and takes some skill and planning to do well...

... which is why I'm raising it. You agree that it *can* be done well, but needs to be well thought-out. So let's think it out. I'm not saying it *has* to be used, nor that if it is used, it has to be used at every opportunity... just that we shouldn't dismiss it simply because it's difficult or takes some effort to do right.

Yes, brooding tortured batshit insane characters are definitly a focal point, but that can be shown in way more natural ways than internal dialogue.

In Sin City, most often it was only a couple of characters onscreen at a time if more than one. Sometimes more came up, but if you notice, the action seemed to receed in the distance as the character spoke internally. Like when Marv was being interrogated and narrates that a lawyer threatened to kill his mother if he didn't lie and confess. Though you see Marve braking the guy's arm and the cops spazzing, it's all in the background. In ASOIAF, there is so much going on that people will start missing things that happen in the background.

I'm not dismissing it because it's hard to do well. By all means, keep it in. I just think that good acting and external dialogue can show the same thing.

[Zulofritter]

Well, there's a reason why the first thing new screenwriters are told is 'no voiceover, no flashbacks'. And we don't have a choice with the flashbacks.