Twinfoil: "Lanns the Clever" and Others

[Springwatch]

On 6/10/2018 at 4:34 PM, hiemal said:

She is not, and I think that her bitterness at the inequalities she faces is the fuel that feeds her ambitions. If she had been brought up differently would she be soaring or would she have remained grounded as a proper lion should?

Agree! It's a shame her energies were so misdirected. Some people can fight back against an unjust world and you know, leave the world a better place. And then there's Cersei.

I don't think she can be changed. Even as Lady of Casterly Rock, she'd still be the same Cersei, but it might have made her feel kinder, more generous to her male relatives (her brothers and Kevan, especially). And then when she needed their help, they'd be there for her.

Funny you should say that about remaining grounded. For the longest time I just assumed that flying was the mark of a superhero, but now I think heights and depths are another pair of dangerous extremes. Jaime's dream of being trapped in the depths just makes me more certain that Cersei will reach for the heights.

I'm much more comfortable with dualities being in opposition than agreement - it seems to fit better with the opposition of fire and ice, black and white, and all the other inverse pairs (Mel has a good long list of them: Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war, she says.)

Quote

<snip> That brings us to the triplets that have been missing. I think Doran, Oberyn, and Elia can be compared with Arianne, Quentyn, and Trystane as well as with Rhaegar, Viserys, and Danerys. And so then it becomes Cersei, Jaimie, Tyrion. Is the ideal Westerosi family 2 boys and a girl? An heir, a spare, and a maiden fair?

Triplets might be more important than pairs: three eyes beats two eyes; three heads makes a dragon. Anyway, to confuse the issue further: Cersei thought she should have been born the boy, and Dany thought Viserys should have been born the girl.

[hiemal]

On 6/11/2018 at 2:43 PM, Springwatch said:

Agree! It's a shame her energies were so misdirected. Some people can fight back against an unjust world and you know, leave the world a better place. And then there's Cersei.

I don't think she can be changed. Even as Lady of Casterly Rock, she'd still be the same Cersei, but it might have made her feel kinder, more generous to her male relatives (her brothers and Kevan, especially). And then when she needed their help, they'd be there for her.

Funny you should say that about remaining grounded. For the longest time I just assumed that flying was the mark of a superhero, but now I think heights and depths are another pair of dangerous extremes. Jaime's dream of being trapped in the depths just makes me more certain that Cersei will reach for the heights.

Good one. And right off the "top" of my head I think that the Wall and the Hightower are both dangerous and ridiculous heights. We've seen a few caves and heard whispers of the mysterious Deep Ones. Many characters reach great heights of power and renown before falling and losing everything.  I suspect that Cersei will follow them in their plunges but her burning of the Tower of the Hand makes me think she might start a fires when she impacts like a bomb. She's not one to suffer alone.

On 6/11/2018 at 2:43 PM, Springwatch said:

I'm much more comfortable with dualities being in opposition than agreement - it seems to fit better with the opposition of fire and ice, black and white, and all the other inverse pairs (Mel has a good long list of them: Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war, she says.)

Exactly- that's how we think naturally as people. As the Red Woman said:

Quote

"If half of an onion is black with rot, it is a rotten onion. A man is good, or he is evil."

ACoK

But it's wrong:

On 6/11/2018 at 2:43 PM, Springwatch said:

Triplets might be more important than pairs: three eyes beats two eyes; three heads makes a dragon. Anyway, to confuse the issue further: Cersei thought she should have been born the boy, and Dany thought Viserys should have been born the girl.

I think trios are important as a refutation of this kind of thinking. As in Tyrion's monochrome dream after the Battle of the Blackwater even without colors there are shades and shades putting the lie to "black and white". Real life is messy and I think one of the main themes of ASoIaF is upsetting expectations regarding the purity or absolutism of morality and ethics. Things are never as simple as we want or need them to be and so the "dragon has three heads" and so on and so forth.