Most Evil Families in the series

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 hour ago, Oana_Mika said:

 

 

Oh, and House Targaryen, although they were among the dragon riding families, were not very influential in Old Valyria.

 

BTW, here I have how many years of peace they offered in Westeros, since you said it's debateble :

 

Targaryens ruled for 283 years, from 1 AC to 283 AC, when Aerys is slain.

Aegon I: The conquest ended after the first Dornish War ended with a peace treaty in 13 AC. The rest of Aegon’s reign was peaceful and lasted 37 years. 37-13 = 24 years of complete peace.

Aenys: ruled from 37 AC to 42 AC, 5 years. His reign was plagued by rebellions, so none of the years in his reign could reasonably be considered peaceful. 0 years of complete peace.

Maegor: ruled from 42 AC to 48 AC, 6 years. Obviously none of his reign can be considered peaceful. 0 years of complete peace.

Jaehaerys I: ruled from 48 AC to 103 AC, 55 years, all of which were peaceful and prosperous. 55 of complete peace AND prosperity.

Viserys I: ruled from 103 AC to 129 AC, 26 years. While it was during his reign that the seeds of the Dance were planted, Viserys’ reign itself was completely peaceful (save for the Stepstones but that did not affect Westeros). 26 years of complete peace.

Aegon II: ruled from 129 AC to 131 AC, 2 years. Obviously there was a civil war happening, so 0 years of complete peace.

Aegon III: ruled from 131 to 157 AC, 26 years. While his reign was immediately after the civil war and there was some instability during the regency, Aegon kept the peace for its entirety. 26 years of complete peace.

Daeron I: ruled from 157 AC - 161 AC, 4 years. His reign was marked by the conquest of Dorne, so I will count its entirety as 0 years of complete peace.

Baelor: ruled from 161 AC to 171 AC, 10 years. He actually tried to atone for Daeron’s wars, and while he was often in a silly goofy mood, I would count all 10 years of his reign as relatively peaceful, 0 if you think that his craziness impacted the realm in some way.

Viserys II: ruled from 171 AC to 172 AC, 1 year. No war during his reigns, it was actually said that he had what it takes to be another Jaehaerys, but his reign was cut short. 1 year of peace AND prosperity.

Aegon IV: ruled from 172 to 184 AC, 12 years. While he was a terrible king, there were no wars during his reign. I will be generous though and say that on the account of his terrible kingship, 0 years of peace for him.

Daeron II: ruled from 184 AC - 209 AC, 25 years. He brough Dorne into the kingdom peacefully, but some of his reign was plagued by the First Blackfyre Rebellion, lasting one year in 196. The rest of his reign was peaceful. 24 years of complete peace.

Aerys I: ruled from 209 AC to 221 AC, 12 years. In 212 there was a Greyjoy rebellion and Second Blackfyre Rebellion, lasting 1 year. The Third Blackfyre Rebellions lasted in 219, also one year. Other than that, there were 10 years of peace.

Maekar: ruled from 221–233 AC, 11 years. No wars during his reign. 11 years of peace.

Aegon V: ruled from 233 AC to 259 AC, 26 years. Brief Blackfyre rebellion broke out in 236. He also had to deal with uprisings, but it’s hard to estimate how much of his reign was dedicated to that. Lyonel’s Strong rebellion was “short”, so let’s say it lasted one year. Jaehaerys’ marriage to Shaera also caused troubles with the Tullys and Tyrells,  TWOIAF does not mention anything about a full fledged rebellion, though. There was a rebellion in 251, where Daeron was slain, let’s say it lasted another year. 2 years were spent at war. In order to make it “much”, I will generously add some years, let’s say 8 years of some other conflicts. Still, that’s 16 years of relative peace.

Jaehaerys II: ruled from 259 AC to 262 AC, lasting 3 years. In 260, the last Blackfyre pretender appeared and killed during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, lasting a year. Other than that, his reign was pretty unremarkable. 2 years of peace.

Aerys II: ruled from 262 to 283 AC, 21 years. Initially, his reign was promising. When do we start counting it as chaotic? Aerys’ madness only truly started during Defiance at Duskendale, started in 277. Robert’s rebellion lasted from 282–283 AC, a year. Let’s be generous and count the Defiance as the beginning of chaos. 21-6=15. 15 years of peace.

That is, in total, 210 years of peace. 222 if we count Aegon IV as peaceful because there were no wars, 200 if we exclude Baelor because he was crazy. Percentage-wise, it’s respectively 75%, 78% and 70%, a clear majority of time. Mind you, before the conquest, the Seven Kingdoms were at constant war with one another, so this is an extremely drastic reduction. (Source)

 

While yes the were less influential than other families, being one of 40 families in the Freehold with dragons still made you quite formidable. Especially with the known existence of non Dragonlord noble houses like the Celtigsrs and Velaryons. So they almost certainly were involved in the Freeholds atrocities. It’d be shocking if they weren’t.

And you are equating times being peaceful to the Targs being good. Targ exceptionalism was at its peak before the Dance. Where they bullied all of Westeros with their dragons. Aegon usurped the thrones of 6 royal families. Maegor was a terror. Jaehaerys’ rule was relatively peaceful, but the dude was a raging misogynist. Viserys was a drunk who pushed to bed a 13 year old. Daemon was all kinds of fucked up, culminating in toddler murder. Rhaenyra feasted while her people starved. Aegon IV was evil and excess personified. Bloodraven did horrible things for peace. Aerys II got off on people burning and his son Rhaegar started a war, and his other son was a walking war crime waiting to happen. 

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

Just now, SeanF said:

There were unquestionably horrible Starks, throughout history.  Those who hung up their enemies’ entrails and raped their daughters.  Nor, were the she-wolves of Winterfell likely pleasant people.

But, I think my point stands.  It’s individuals, not Houses, who should be judged.  

I agree, we shouldn’t rush to judge everyone on their family. However the Targaryens were undeniably part of the Freeholds power structure. And they absolutely would have taken part in and benefited from it’s atrocities. Their time in Westeros is the least of argument to them being and relatively evil family.

[Oana_Mika]

22 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Literally Zero proof in that. Starks arose after defeating the Others the first time. Targaryens extinguished many a house as well. And we don’t know much of anything from the time the Wall came up, or why the Wildlings stayed on the other side. And the wars with the Starks were always initiated by the Kings Beyond the Wall raiding south of the wall.

 

The Starks are of blood of the First Men, who genocided the Children of the Forest :

 

“They were people of the Dawn Age, the very first, before kings and kingdoms,” he said. “In those days, there were no castles or holdfasts, no cities, not so much as a market town to be found between here and the sea of Dorne. There were no men at all. Only the children of the forest dwelt in the lands we now call the Seven Kingdoms.

“They were a people dark and beautiful, small of stature, no taller than children even when grown to manhood. They lived in the depths of the wood, in caves and crannogs and secret tree towns. Slight as they were, the children were quick and graceful. Male and female hunted together, with weirwood bows and flying snares. Their gods were the gods of the forest, stream, and stone, the old gods whose names are secret. Their wise men were called greenseers, and carved strange faces in the weirwoods to keep watch on the woods. How long the children reigned here or where they came from, no man can know.

“But some twelve thousand years ago, the First Men appeared from the east, crossing the Broken Arm of Dorne before it was broken. They came with bronze swords and great leathern shields, riding horses. No horse had ever been seen on this side of the narrow sea. No doubt the children were as frightened by the horses as the First Men were by the faces in the trees. As the First Men carved out holdfasts and farms, they cut down the faces and gave them to the fire. Horror-struck, the children went to war. The old songs say that the greenseers used dark magics to make the seas rise and sweep away the land, shattering the Arm, but it was too late to close the door. The wars went on until the earth ran red with blood of men and children both, but more children than men, for men were bigger and stronger, and wood and stone and obsidian make a poor match for bronze. Finally the wise of both races prevailed, and the chiefs and heroes of the First Men met the greenseers and wood dancers amidst the weirwood groves of a small island in the great lake called Gods Eye.” (Bran VII, AGoT)

 

See how they only aided the Children of the Forest when they were threatened too :

 

“The Andals were the first, a race of tall, fair-haired warriors who came with steel and fire and the seven-pointed star of the new gods painted on their chests. The wars lasted hundreds of years, but in the end the six southron kingdoms all fell before them. Only here, where the King in the North threw back every army that tried to cross the Neck, did the rule of the First Men endure. The Andals burnt out the weirwood groves, hacked down the faces, slaughtered the children where they found them, and everywhere proclaimed the triumph of the Seven over the old gods. So the children fled north—” (Bran VII, AGoT)

 

And The Kings of Winter extinguished many lines to cement their rule and conquer the North :

 

Song and story tell us that the Starks of Winterfell have ruled large portions of the lands beyond the Neck for eight thousand years, styling themselves the Kings of Winter (the more ancient usage) and (in more recent centuries) the Kings in the North. Their rule was not an uncontested one. Many were the wars in which the Starks expanded their rule or were forced to win back lands that rebels had carved away. The Kings of Winter were hard men in hard times.

Ancient ballads, amongst the oldest to be found in the archives of the Citadel of Oldtown, tell of how one King of Winter drove the giants from the North, whilst another felled the skinchanger Gaven Greywolf and his kin in “the savage War of the Wolves,” but we have only the word of singers that such kings and such battles ever existed.

More historical proof exists for the war between the Kings of Winter and the Barrow Kings to their south, who styled themselves the Kings of the First Men and claimed supremacy over all First Men everywhere, even the Starks themselves. Runic records suggest that their struggle, dubbed the Thousand Years War by the singers, was actually a series of wars that lasted closer to two hundred years than a thousand, ending when the last Barrow King bent his knee to the King of Winter, and gave him the hand of his daughter in marriage.

Even this did not give Winterfell dominion over all the North. Many other petty kings remained, ruling over realms great and small, and it would require thousands of years and many more wars before the last of them was conquered. Yet one by one, the Starks subdued them all, and during these struggles, many proud houses and ancient lines were extinguished forever. (The North: The Kings of Winter, TWoIaF)

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Oana_Mika]

14 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

I agree, we shouldn’t rush to judge everyone on their family. However the Targaryens were undeniably part of the Freeholds power structure. And they absolutely would have taken part in and benefited from it’s atrocities. Their time in Westeros is the least of argument to them being and relatively evil family.

As the Starks benefited from other atrocities and I previously showed you how the majority of their time in Westeros was peaceful.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 minute ago, Oana_Mika said:

As the Starks benefited from other atrocities and I previously showed you how the majority of their time in Westeros was peaceful.

You are attributing acts committed by a specific ethnic group to a specific family of that ethnic group. We are given no names of specific families that did this of first men. In fact, by the time the Starks became Kings of the North, they lived WITH the Children. 
 

and Yes they did wipe out families. We don’t know the context, but we can assume it was in war, when they rebelled against the Starks or fought over the crown of the North. Again wiping out families is bad, but if it was a war for a crown then it’s not some unprecedented thing that the family couldn’t expect. 
 

The difference is, the Targs were an active participant in the power structure of Valyria. The amount of power they wielded in that structure is irrelevant. They were still one of the forty most powerful families in the entire world. And they still participated in its activities.

[Oana_Mika]

28 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

And you are equating times being peaceful to the Targs being good. Targ exceptionalism was at its peak before the Dance. Where they bullied all of Westeros with their dragons.

How were they "bullying" Westeros with their dragons if most of their rule was peaceful?

And lucky for you, I can actually show you how many Targaryens were eVuL/ "mad" (Source) :

 

List of 'Mad’ Targaryens (6):

• Maegor I 'the Cruel’ Targaryen
• Baelor I 'the Blessed’ Targaryen (this one is debatable)
• Prince Rhaegel Targaryen
• Aerion 'the Monstrous’ 'Brightflame’ Targaryen
• Aerys II 'the Mad King’ Targaryen
• Viserys 'the Beggar King’ Targaryen (this one is debatable)

(To better understand why these Targaryens are classified as mad, visit the Villains Wiki for a nice description for each character)

Possible ’Mad’ Targaryens (3):

• Helaena Targaryen (became depressed and descended into madness, committed suicide)
• Aelora Targaryen (driven mad with grief after losing her husband, committed suicide)
• Maelys I 'the Monstrous’ Blackfyre (not actually a Targaryen. Ruthless and cruel, not necessarily mad, did possess a physical deformity)

List of non-Mad Targaryens (81):

• Aenar Targaryen
• Gaemon 'the Glorious’ Targaryen
• Daenys 'the Dreamer’ Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Elaena Targaryen
• Maegon Targaryen
• Aerys Targaryen
• Aelyx Targaryen
• Baelon Targaryen
• Daemion Targaryen
• Aerion Targaryen
• Visenya Targaryen
• Aegon I Targaryen
• Rhaenys Targaryen
• Aenys I Targaryen
• Rhaena Targaryen
• Aegon 'the Uncrowned’ Targaryen
• Viserys Targaryen 
• Jaehaerys I 'the Wise’ Targaryen
• 'Good Queen’ Alysanne Targaryen
• Rhaella Targaryen
• Aerea Targaryen
• Daenerys Targaryen
• Vaegon 'the Dragonless’ Targaryen
• Maegelle Targaryen
• Viserra Targaryen
• Saera Targaryen
• Gael Targaryen
• Aemon Targaryen
• Daella Targaryen* (maybe had anxiety?)
• Baelon 'the Brave’ Targaryen
• Alyssa Targaryen
• Rhaenys 'the Queen Who Never Was’ Targaryen
• Viserys I Targaryen
• Daemon 'the Rogue Prince’ Targaryen* (maybe suffered narcissism?)
• Baela Targaryen
• Rhaena Targaryen 'of Pentos’
• Viserys II Targaryen
• Aegon III 'the Younger’ Targaryen* (Had a temper, I guess?)
• Jaehaera Targaryen (committed suicide, maybe? probably murdered)
• Jaehaerys Targaryen (born with six fingers and toes?)
• Aegon II 'the Elder’ Targaryen (Was cruel?)
• Aemond 'One-Eye’ Targaryen (Was a shitty person, I guess?)
• Daeron 'the Daring’ Targaryen
• Elaena Targaryen
• Septa Rhaena Targaryen
• Daeron I 'the Young Dragon’ Targaryen
• Daena 'the Defiant’ Targaryen
• Aegon IV 'the Unworthy’ Targaryen (Was a shitty person, I guess?)
• Naerys Targaryen
• Aemon 'the Dragonknight’ Targaryen
• Daemon I Blackfyre
• Daeron II ’ the Good’ Targaryen
• Daenerys Targaryen of Dorne
• Maekar I Targaryen (Had a temper I guess?)
• Aerys I Targaryen
• Baelor 'Breakspear’ Targaryen
• Matarys Targaryen
• Valarr 'the Young Prince’ Targaryen
• Brynden 'Lord Bloodraven’ Rivers (Was kind of a shitty person, I guess?)
• Shiera Seastar (Was rumored to be a murdery sorceress?)
• Aegor 'Bittersteel’ Rivers (Had a temper, I guess?)
• Rhae Targaryen
• Aegon V 'the Unlikely’ Targaryen
• Daella Targaryen
• Maester Aemon Targaryen
• Daenora Targaryen
• Aelor Targaryen
• Maegor Targaryen (fears that he would inherit his father’s madness, I guess?)
• Daeron 'the Drunken’ Targaryen
• Vaella Targaryen (simple-minded or low IQ, I guess?)
• Prince Duncan 'the Small’ Targaryen
• Jaehaerys II Targaryen
• Shaera Targaryen
• Rhaelle Targaryen
• Daeron Targaryen
• Queen Rhaella Targaryen
• Rhaegar 'the Silver Prince’ Targaryen
• Daenerys 'Stormborn’ Targaryen
• Rhaenys Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen  (or… may be Young Griff?)

Non-'Mad’ Offspring from Targaryen Mothers (11):

• Laena Velaryon (gave birth to a deformed son, I guess?)
• Jacaerys Velaryon
• Lucerys Velaryon
• Joffrey Velaryon
• Joy Penrose
• Jon Waters
• Jeyne Waters
• Viserys Plumm
• Robin Penrose
• Laena Penrose
• Jocelyn Penrose

Targaryens who died as babies (11):

• Vaella Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Gaemon Targaryen
• Valerion Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Maelor Targaryen
• Baelon Targaryen
• Jaehaerys Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Daeron Targaryen
• Shaena Targaryen

Targaryen babies born with physical deformities (2):

• Visenya Targaryen (twisted and malformed)
• Rhaego (born deformed… likely the result of magic)

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

2 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

How were they "bullying" Westeros with their dragons if most of their rule was peaceful?

And lucky for you, I can actually show you how many Targaryens were eVuL/ "mad" (Source) :

 

List of 'Mad’ Targaryens (6):

• Maegor I 'the Cruel’ Targaryen
• Baelor I 'the Blessed’ Targaryen (this one is debatable)
• Prince Rhaegel Targaryen
• Aerion 'the Monstrous’ 'Brightflame’ Targaryen
• Aerys II 'the Mad King’ Targaryen
• Viserys 'the Beggar King’ Targaryen (this one is debatable)

(To better understand why these Targaryens are classified as mad, visit the Villains Wiki for a nice description for each character)

Possible ’Mad’ Targaryens (4):

• Helaena Targaryen (became depressed and descended into madness, committed suicide)
• Aelora Targaryen (driven mad with grief after losing her husband, committed suicide)
• Maelys I 'the Monstrous’ Blackfyre (not actually a Targaryen. Ruthless and cruel, not necessarily mad, did possess a physical deformity)

List of non-Mad Targaryens (80):

• Aenar Targaryen
• Gaemon 'the Glorious’ Targaryen
• Daenys 'the Dreamer’ Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Elaena Targaryen
• Maegon Targaryen
• Aerys Targaryen
• Aelyx Targaryen
• Baelon Targaryen
• Daemion Targaryen
• Aerion Targaryen
• Visenya Targaryen
• Aegon I Targaryen
• Rhaenys Targaryen
• Aenys I Targaryen
• Rhaena Targaryen
• Aegon 'the Uncrowned’ Targaryen
• Viserys Targaryen 
• Jaehaerys I 'the Wise’ Targaryen
• 'Good Queen’ Alysanne Targaryen
• Rhaella Targaryen
• Aerea Targaryen
• Daenerys Targaryen
• Vaegon 'the Dragonless’ Targaryen
• Maegelle Targaryen
• Viserra Targaryen
• Saera Targaryen
• Gael Targaryen
• Aemon Targaryen
• Daella Targaryen* (maybe had anxiety?)
• Baelon 'the Brave’ Targaryen
• Alyssa Targaryen
• Rhaenys 'the Queen Who Never Was’ Targaryen
• Viserys I Targaryen
• Daemon 'the Rogue Prince’ Targaryen* (maybe suffered narcissism?)
• Baela Targaryen
• Rhaena Targaryen 'of Pentos’
• Viserys II Targaryen
• Aegon III 'the Younger’ Targaryen* (Had a temper, I guess?)
• Jaehaera Targaryen (committed suicide, maybe? probably murdered)
• Jaehaerys Targaryen (born with six fingers and toes?)
• Aegon II 'the Elder’ Targaryen (Was cruel?)
• Aemond 'One-Eye’ Targaryen (Was a shitty person, I guess?)
• Daeron 'the Daring’ Targaryen
• Elaena Targaryen
• Septa Rhaena Targaryen
• Daeron I 'the Young Dragon’ Targaryen
• Daena 'the Defiant’ Targaryen
• Aegon IV 'the Unworthy’ Targaryen (Was a shitty person, I guess?)
• Naerys Targaryen
• Aemon 'the Dragonknight’ Targaryen
• Daemon I Blackfyre
• Daeron II ’ the Good’ Targaryen
• Daenerys Targaryen of Dorne
• Maekar I Targaryen (Had a temper I guess?)
• Aerys I Targaryen
• Baelor 'Breakspear’ Targaryen
• Matarys Targaryen
• Valarr 'the Young Prince’ Targaryen
• Brynden 'Lord Bloodraven’ Rivers (Was kind of a shitty person, I guess?)
• Shiera Seastar (Was rumored to be a murdery sorceress?)
• Aegor 'Bittersteel’ Rivers (Had a temper, I guess?)
• Rhae Targaryen
• Aegon V 'the Unlikely’ Targaryen
• Daella Targaryen
• Maester Aemon Targaryen
• Daenora Targaryen
• Aelor Targaryen
• Maegor Targaryen (fears that he would inherit his father’s madness, I guess?)
• Daeron 'the Drunken’ Targaryen
• Vaella Targaryen (simple-minded or low IQ, I guess?)
• Prince Duncan 'the Small’ Targaryen
• Jaehaerys II Targaryen
• Shaera Targaryen
• Rhaelle Targaryen
• Daeron Targaryen
• Queen Rhaella Targaryen
• Rhaegar 'the Silver Prince’ Targaryen
• Daenerys 'Stormborn’ Targaryen
• Rhaenys Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen  (or… may be Young Griff?)

Non-'Mad’ Offspring from Targaryen Mothers (11):

• Laena Velaryon (gave birth to a deformed son, I guess?)
• Jacaerys Velaryon
• Lucerys Velaryon
• Joffrey Velaryon
• Joy Penrose
• Jon Waters
• Jeyne Waters
• Viserys Plumm
• Robin Penrose
• Laena Penrose
• Jocelyn Penrose

Targaryens who died as babies (11):

• Vaella Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Gaemon Targaryen
• Valerion Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Maelor Targaryen
• Baelon Targaryen
• Jaehaerys Targaryen
• Aegon Targaryen
• Daeron Targaryen
• Shaena Targaryen

Targaryen babies born with physical deformities (2):

• Visenya Targaryen (twisted and malformed)
• Rhaego (born deformed… likely the result of magic)

Are you saying that you can only be evil if you are mad? That’s absurd. 
 

it’s because they used their dragons to enforce their Will. Which isn’t evil in of itself.

Edited March 28, 2023 by King Maegor the Cool

[Oana_Mika]

11 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Are you saying that you can only be evil if you are mad? That’s absurd

If you payed attention, I put mad in quotes because many asociated evil Targaryen with mad Targaryens. I see the list is only based on those who were considered mad, not dividing those who were just cruel. That's my slip. I'll make a reply with only those who were cruel then thought it will be tough given the extention of what you may consider evil.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

1 minute ago, Oana_Mika said:

If you paied attention, I put mad in quotes because many asociated evil Targaryen with mad Targaryens.

Right is agree. People apply mad to many Targs when in reality they were just evil pieces of shit. Maegor, Daemon, Viserys I, Aegon’s I,II, IV, Aerion, Visenya, Aemond, Aerys II, Viserys III, and maybe Rhaegar.

 

and I’ll restore rate. The Westerosi Targs aren’t the reason I think they are an evil family. It their being complicit in the Freeholds crimes.

[Oana_Mika]

6 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Right is agree. People apply mad to many Targs when in reality they were just evil pieces of shit. Maegor, Daemon, Viserys I, Aegon’s I,II, IV, Aerion, Visenya, Aemond, Aerys II, Viserys III, and maybe Rhaegar.

 

and I’ll restore rate. The Westerosi Targs aren’t the reason I think they are an evil family. It their being complicit in the Freeholds crimes.

 

Ok, I understand your stance but my view on them is based on what we actually know, which is from Aegon the Conqueror onwards. If you can hate them for living in Valyria (and I agree that they were awaful), so I can hate the Starks that were before Kings of Winter that took part in the killing of the Children of the Forest. Because the Stark line did not simply appear right when they declared themselves Kings of Winter so their generation does go back to those who invaded Westeros and killed the Children of the Forest.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Oana_Mika]

13 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

it’s because they used their dragons to enforce their Will. Which isn’t evil in of itself.

 

Unlike the Starks who used their swords and took hostages to enforce their will? Which isn’t evil in of itself.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

4 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

 

Ok, I understand your stance but my view on them is based on what we actually know, which is from Aegon the Conqueror onwards. If you can hate them for living in Valyria (and I agree that they were awaful), so I can hate the Starks that were before Kings of Winter that took part in the killing of the Children of the Forest. Because the Stark line did not simply appear right when they declared themselves Kings of Winter so their generation does go back to those who invaded Westeros and killed the Children of the Forest.

“ the killing of the Children” was a war. They did not wipe them out. They actually lived with them more than fought them. It was the Andals who wiped them out. The Starks weren’t a family of nobility until after the Long Night. Which was after the war with the Children.

Whereas, the Targaryens were a family, were high ranking nobles, in the Freehold during times when the Freehold was committing atrocities. We don’t know if they existed for 4,000 years as a noble family or not. But at some point they were nobles up until the Doom. 
 

It’s just different.

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

3 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

 

Unlike the Starks who used their swords and took hostages to enforce their will? Which isn’t evil in of itself.

Right. I’d argue their is an element of honor in an equal playing field. Whereas dragons vs no dragons in an easy W, and takes really no planning. 

[Oana_Mika]

3 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

“ the killing of the Children” was a war. They did not wipe them out. They actually lived with them more than fought them. It was the Andals who wiped them out. The Starks weren’t a family of nobility until after the Long Night. Which was after the war with the Children.

Whereas, the Targaryens were a family, were high ranking nobles, in the Freehold during times when the Freehold was committing atrocities. We don’t know if they existed for 4,000 years as a noble family or not. But at some point they were nobles up until the Doom. 
 

It’s just different.

But the Children were almost all whiped out and I showed you they did not helped them when the Andals invaded until their asses were at risk too. And even if they were not "nobility" as you say, they still took part in that.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Oana_Mika]

3 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Right. I’d argue their is an element of honor in an equal playing field. Whereas dragons vs no dragons in an easy W, and takes really no planning. 

So it all comes down to bitterness that they have dragons?

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

9 minutes ago, Oana_Mika said:

So it all comes down to bitterness that they have dragons?

Then using their dragons in certain ways doesn’t make them evil, just cowards and weaklings. Maegor, Aegon II, and Aemond were evil in how they used them. And given what we know of Daemon and Visenya I wouldn’t put it past them as well.

[Oana_Mika]

4 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Then using their dragons in certain ways doesn’t make them evil, just cowards and weaklings. Maegor, Aegon II, and Aemond were evil in how they used them. And given what we know of Daemon and Visenya I wouldn’t put it past them as well.

 

I know that there were Targaryens that used their dragons cruely towards the common folk, not only just in battle and I agree that this is awaful. But again, we also see northeners and Stark men burning places in TWO5K and small folk spitting their name.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Alester Florent]

55 minutes ago, King Maegor the Cool said:

Right is agree. People apply mad to many Targs when in reality they were just evil pieces of shit. Maegor, Daemon, Viserys I, Aegon’s I,II, IV, Aerion, Visenya, Aemond, Aerys II, Viserys III, and maybe Rhaegar.

Really?

[Oana_Mika]

3 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

Really?

Also,IDK why he put Aegon I there. Guess because he burned Dorne villages in response to Rhaenys' death. I guess the Targaryen were the only ones who burned places in retaliation. Still, there are far more "good" Targaryens than "bad" ones.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Oana_Mika

[Lady Stonehearts Simp]

13 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

Really?

Raped a 13 year old girl.