AGOT Mafia 50 - The Chef Battle

[House Dondarrion]

[quote name='House Stokeworth' post='1312852' date='Apr 14 2008, 03.23']I said that Thorne's recipe post was suspicious too -



Yeah, my later post, where I said people should comment on the recipe/follower issue, just mentioned Grandison. But if I was hoping to deflect attention away from Thorne (as you are implying), then why would I repeat a 'case' that nobody was talking about, when I had already acknowledged that it was a black mark against Thorne as much as it was a point against Grandison? Wouldn't really make much sense.[/quote]


k.

Sorry I thought that someone else had motioned Thorne's recipe before you posted about it being suspect.

But the Pommingham vote and run (for two hours) without explanation bugs me a bit.
Now I understand that sometime you don’t have much to add too previous cases or posted thoughts. Just say so before you leave.

Unfortunately you where not around for ages, popped in and placed a vote without any real explanation then left immediately. From my point of view, it looked like you needed a few hours to come up with a reason with something to add as soon as Fell asked. However after two hours of thought you knew you could not delay much longer as the votes started piling on.

Sorry but I don’t like it. [b]Pommingham[/b]

[Lady Gaga]

[i]Mods, Connington is voting for Smallwood, not Corbray! [/i] :pirate:

[House Mooton]

The Florent incident is interesting, at least it got the game moving. Some people seem to think he can't be guilty, but I really don't buy that. Thorne and Grandison were under similar pressure day 1 last game, and Grandison was a symp, so it's entirely possible that Florent is evil too. Not too certain on this, but absolutely more suspicious of him than anyone else right now.

Another person who stands out is Pommingham, for placing a vote and then basically backing up a lot later, when pressured on it. Florent does a good job at picking him to pieces.

Lastly I'd say Wythers bothers me. As others have said, his suspect pool list is silly. There way he's PI'ing Florent is suspicious, to say the least.


Right, I'm done parroting other people. At least I hope so. Don't think too well on an empty stomach, so no great revelations from me so far...

[House Sunglass]

[quote name='House Florent' post='1313027' date='Apr 14 2008, 03.53']Why would you have to choose a side?[/quote]Firstly, because it always good for innocents. It helps to win.
Secondly, if I failed to choose, you would call me wishy-washy, won't you?
[quote]This has slowly drifted away from looking like the defining part of day 1, and was pretty much dying when you jumped on the train.[/quote]Now you've strongly confirmed my suspicions. It sounds so FMish, you know. "I almost evaded the noose, but damned Pommingham afflicted attention to me again!"
[quote]Added to that, failing any interventions, Team Innocent has one free "go to night" that won't deprive us of a lynch.[/quote]Seems you absolutely don't care if we will lynch me, anybody else or nobody at all, you aren't interested in our win but in you own fate only.

[House Dayne]

[quote name='House Plumm' post='1313075' date='Apr 14 2008, 07.06']Unfortunately you where not around for ages, popped in and placed a vote without any real explanation then left immediately. From my point of view, it looked like you needed a few hours to come up with a reason with something to add as soon as Fell asked. However after two hours of thought you knew you could not delay much longer as the votes started piling on.[/quote]Not so sure about this for a couple of reasons. First, most people can at least semi justify their actions, regardless of alignment. In my experience, FM only make the unjustifiable moves later in the game in order to win, not on day 1 where an evil lynch puts them up against the wall for the rest of the game. So I don't buy this argument at all. Second, Pommingham didn't in fact lay down a vote and then leave. He mentioned he was suspicious of Florent and left. His vote on Florent came later when he was around for a while.

I'm [b]withdrawing my vote[/b] from Pommingham. I still don't like Pommingham's reasoning, but Florent's and to a greater degree Plumm's votes have made me a little uneasy about it.

[House Frey]

[quote name='House Mallister' post='1313093' date='Apr 14 2008, 06.33']Right, I'm done parroting other people. At least I hope so. Don't think too well on an empty stomach, so no great revelations from me so far...[/quote]

At least you recognize what your post consisted of.

[House Targaryen]

It is day 1.

16 players remain: Connington, Corbray, Dayne, Erenford, Fell, Florent, Grandison, Mallister, Merryweather, Plumm, Pommingham, Smallwood, Stokeworth, Thorne, Tollett, Wythers.

9 votes are needed for a conviction or 8 to go to night.

3 votes for Pommingham (Fell, Florent, Plumm)
2 votes for Smallwood (Connington, Wythers)
2 votes for Florent (Tollett, Pommingham)
1 vote for Thorne (Merryweather)
1 vote for Merryweather (Thorne)
1 vote for Stokeworth (Grandison)
1 vote for Grandison (Stokeworth)
1 vote for Mallister (Corbray)

4 players have not voted: Dayne, Erenford, Mallister, Smallwood.

A little over 12 hours left in the day, which will finish at 2 am GMT (I think that would be 9 pm EST). -Spidey, a Eurocommie ;)

[House Sunglass]

Er. [b]Florent[/b], once again.

[House Tyrell]

[quote name='House Wythers' post='1313054' date='Apr 14 2008, 04.52']I see Fell has made some reasonable posts during my absence, which gains him a place at the[u] botom of my suspect list[/u].

Pommingham has chosen to take the straight way to the gallows. I wonder why he gathers votes for his POV, while no one seems to suspect Stokeworth.[u] Or Fell[/u]. Strange.

Since Tollett got a free pass for not posting, I change my vote to [b]Smallwood[/b]. [s]Connington [/s] [i]Fell [/i]already explained how Smallwood's behaviour could be desdribed as opportunistic and shy of confrontation.[/quote]
By bottom of your suspect list, do you mean you think I am innocent or bottom of your list of Stokeworth, Smallwood, Merryweather, and I? If it is the first, why are you wondering why Pommingham is getting suspected and not me? As for Smallwood, I was the one that pointed out their behavior and Connington [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=27658&view=findpost&p=1312922"]jumped on[/url] [url="http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=27658&view=findpost&p=1312880"]after my post.[/url]

[quote name='House Pommingham' post='1313102' date='Apr 14 2008, 06.49']Firstly, because it always good for innocents. It helps to win.
Secondly, if I failed to choose, you would call me wishy-washy, won't you?
Now you've strongly confirmed my suspicions. It sounds so FMish, you know. "I almost evaded the noose, but damned Pommingham afflicted attention to me again!"
Seems you absolutely don't care if we will lynch me, anybody else or nobody at all, you aren't interested in our win but in you own fate only.[/quote]
I'm not buying this. Choosing a side is not as important as giving your OWN thoughts. Even if you come to the same conclusion, give your thought process that brought you there. It might come off as parrot-y at times but more often than not people are going to be more likely to believe what you are saying.

[quote name='House Dayne' post='1313122' date='Apr 14 2008, 07.21']I'm [b]withdrawing my vote[/b] from Pommingham. I still don't like Pommingham's reasoning, but Florent's and to a greater degree Plumm's votes have made me a little uneasy about it.[/quote]
I agree that some of them jumping on is a bit suspicious. Pommingham made themselves out to be a fairly easy target.

[quote name='House Pommingham' post='1313150' date='Apr 14 2008, 07.54']Er. [b]Florent[/b], once again.[/quote]
? Your vote was already on Florent. You've lost me here, why did you post this?


eta- Mods, my vote is currently on Pommingham. Thank ya kindly :)

[House Targaryen]

An occasional thoughts PM wouldn't kill you, but it would cheer up a bored mod. ;)

Hope I got the votes right in my edit.

[House Frey]

[quote name='Erenford']I'm thinking that Florent could be a symp at this point after looking over the material others have posted. I'm thinking that this could be a symp making a fuss to cause people to go into tunnel vision mode. Ignoring other things in favor of what seems to be an obvious lynch.

However, at the same time some of the style of defense leads me to believe that it could be more likely that they're an innocent who just made a mistake and is getting pressured for it. This isn't a bad thing mind you the pressure spawned a decent discussion of Florent.

I'm stuck between the two positions at the moment not feeling strongly for either at this exact moment. I'm going to mull a bit.

Pommingham already has enough pressure being applied to them at the moment, so despite also wanting to see a response to the question I won't be voting on them.

I'll be for a bit yet, so I'm going to look over a couple things again, and see if it shifts my opinion at all.[/quote]

Two things that I want to note.

1. Erenford doesn't even consider the possibility that Florent may be a FM. He takes up the symp position which I think is highly unlikely. If he said, "I don't think he's a FM because..., however he could be a symp because..." then I wouldn't have all that much problem with it. But the fact that he doesn't even mention the idea that he could be a FM bothers me. It's a subtle type of defense. At the end of the day, on day 1, who would we rather lynch? A possible symp who could be innocent or a possible FM who could be a symp who could be innocent?

To follow up on that point:

Do you really believe that Florent reacted on purpose to draw this much attention to him when his masters weren't in danger (no one was in danger at this stage so it's safe to assume his masters weren't)? Is there any possible way that you can see Florent as a FM?

2. How much is enough pressure? Pommingham had 2 votes on him and you're already saying you won't vote for him because he has enough pressure. So who will you pressure yourself?

This post is pretty much [b]Erenford[/b]'s only attempt at content and it's severly lacking. He takes a position on Florent that could be a subtle defense while taking no real firm stands. "He could be a symp or he could just be an innocent but I'm not sure yet" and then he backs off pressuring Pommingham who only had two votes because there was enough pressure. He finishes off his post with he'll check things out to see if his opinion changes then doesn't come back. Now, after more arguments have taken place, he can easily come back and change his opinion as "things have changed." I don't like it at all.

[House Sunglass]

[quote name='House Fell' post='1313161' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.16']? Your vote was already on Florent. You've lost me here, why did you post this?[/quote]Mods forgot to count my vote. I could just inform them about the mistake, but it was more enjoyable to vote [b]Florent[/b] again. Yummy, [b]Florent[/b]. More thoughts a bit later.

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Wythers' post='1313058' date='Apr 14 2008, 04.56']Corbray is there any other special reason why you chose to vote for Mallister? Why not voting for Tollett, a low poster who already had a vote on him?[/quote]

My vote on Mallister is for posting 3 times, and then dropping off the board the rest of the day. I see he came back and made a useless post. Waiting to see if anything more comes of it.

I considered Tollett as well as the rest of the low-posters. Tollett also seems to be blending and flying low. I think I pushed him slightly below Mallister because I agreed with his view on Grandison (to the extent that Grandison's recipe did not seem particularly suspicious). There is a lot of behavior that is going on right now that seems to be designed to blend in to the crowd (adding votes to Florent, adding votes to Pommingham, adding recipes, etc). It's hard to know which ones are true attempts to blend in, and which ones are just innocent posts.

[House Frey]

[quote name='House Corbray' post='1313180' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.49']My vote on Mallister is for posting 3 times, and then dropping off the board the rest of the day. I see he came back and made a useless post. Waiting to see if anything more comes of it.[/quote]

That last post by Mallister was pretty bad. Not only did he parrot everyone's thoughts but it seemed he sought to disarm anyone attacking him by readily admitting he was parroting thoughts. I do think he needs a bit more pressure but I want to pressure Erenford first.

[House Thorne]

So far not impressed with the case on Pommingham, I find Plumm's vote to be more telling. Primarily because Plumm is factually incorrect as what actions Pommingham had taken. Pommingham expressed suspicions of Florent withoujt explaining but did not "drop a vote and run" as described by Plumm. This looks to me like Plumm being opportunistic, looking for a mob to join and push by dropping the 4th vote.

I like Merryweather's case on Erenford. I agree with his conclusions. Erenford appears to be leaving himself open to see where the lynch is going as the clock winds down.

[b]Erenford.[/b]

[House Wythers]

[quote name='House Thorne' post='1313187' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.56']So far not impressed with the case on Pommingham, I find Plumm's vote to be more telling. Primarily because Plumm is factually incorrect as what actions Pommingham had taken. Pommingham expressed suspicions of Florent withoujt explaining but did not "drop a vote and run" as described by Plumm. This looks to me like Plumm being opportunistic, looking for a mob to join and push by dropping the 4th vote.

I like Merryweather's case on Erenford. I agree with his conclusions. Erenford appears to be leaving himself open to see where the lynch is going as the clock winds down.

[b]Erenford.[/b][/quote]

I liked this post better the first time when it was Dayne's and Merryweather's post earlier on this page. :rolleyes:

[House Tyrell]

[quote name='House Merryweather' post='1313177' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.41']At the end of the day, on day 1, who would we rather lynch? A possible symp who could be innocent or a possible FM who could be a symp who could be innocent?[/quote]
Ummm..THE SECOND! I want the second one!

[quote name='House Merryweather' post='1313177' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.41']Do you really believe that Florent reacted on purpose to draw this much attention to him when his masters weren't in danger (no one was in danger at this stage so it's safe to assume his masters weren't)? Is there any possible way that you can see Florent as a FM?[/quote]
I am feeling more and more like there is little to no chance that Florent's intent was to draw attention to himself, or really put himself in an advantageous position at all. I am going to take a look back at Wythers again because I feel like he might be the one that comes out of the situation looking the worst. I can see either an FM or symp defending an innocent at a time they don't need to be defended just so they can say "Look what I did! I stuck my neck out for HIM, so I must be innocent" and in fact Wythers nearly said as much in one of his posts.
[quote name='House Merryweather' post='1313177' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.41']2. How much is enough pressure? Pommingham had 2 votes on him and you're already saying you won't vote for him because he has enough pressure. So who will you pressure yourself?[/quote]
Agreed. Strange. Pommingham certainly doesn't seem all that perturbed by the votes or suspicion as their behavior has not changed one iota.

[quote name='House Pommingham' post='1313179' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.47']Mods forgot to count my vote. I could just inform them about the mistake, but it was more enjoyable to vote [b]Florent[/b] again. Yummy, [b]Florent[/b]. More thoughts a bit later.[/quote]
More thoughts? I always thought you needed some to then say more, but I guess if you add something to nothing that would be more...
[quote name='House Pommingham' post='1312997' date='Apr 14 2008, 02.27']But of course. FMs benefit most from not lynching at all. If they leap onto bandwagons, that's for staying hidden, not for lynching an innocent.
On day 1. Day 2 and later, we always can change opinion about them.
I am not convinced at all. I just think Florent's chances to appear guilty are slightly higher than anybody else's.[/quote]
Why do you think FMs benefit most from not lynching? What repercussions are most beneficial to them, or hurtful to the innocents. Do you believe that bandwagoning keeps someone hidden? What about Florent's behavior makes you think they are more likely to be guilty than anybody else? Specifically. Do you think Florent is a symp or FM.

..and I'd like this typed double spaced, size 12 Times New Roman Font, 1000 words. I'll be grading you on clarity and thought. Don't forget the plagiarism rules in the syllabus.

[House Tyrell]

[quote name='House Thorne' post='1313187' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.56']So far not impressed with the case on Pommingham, I find Plumm's vote to be more telling. Primarily because Plumm is factually incorrect as what actions Pommingham had taken. Pommingham expressed suspicions of Florent withoujt explaining but did not "drop a vote and run" as described by Plumm. This looks to me like Plumm being opportunistic, looking for a mob to join and push by dropping the 4th vote.

I like Merryweather's case on Erenford. I agree with his conclusions. Erenford appears to be leaving himself open to see where the lynch is going as the clock winds down.

[b]Erenford.[/b][/quote]
You had me going, somewhat, and then pulled the carpet out from under me. You look more like you want to vote for Plumm here than Erenford. Also, the clock is not exactly winding down, we have 10 hours left. Why do you think Erenford is more likely to be guilty than Plumm? What are your thoughts on Florent and Wythers?

If you just say that you agree with someone and don't explain what they said or why you agree with it...detention for a week.

[quote name='House Corbray' post='1313192' date='Apr 14 2008, 09.01']I liked this post better the first time when it was Dayne's and Merryweather's post earlier on this page. :rolleyes:[/quote]
:rofl:

[House Sunglass]

[quote name='House Fell' post='1313161' date='Apr 14 2008, 08.16']I'm not buying this. Choosing a side is not as important as giving your OWN thoughts. Even if you come to the same conclusion, give your thought process that brought you there. It might come off as parrot-y at times but more often than not people are going to be more likely to believe what you are saying.[/quote]Disagree. Anyway, I don't want to do parroting.
[quote]Why do you think FMs benefit most from not lynching? What repercussions are most beneficial to them, or hurtful to the innocents. Do you believe that bandwagoning keeps someone hidden?[/quote]Is it exams? Should I prove I am not a newbie in this game?
[quote]What about Florent's behavior makes you think they are more likely to be guilty than anybody else? Specifically. Do you think Florent is a symp or FM.[/quote]I specifically pointed at this in my answer to Florent. His last remark was way too FMish. I don't think he is a symp.

[House Connington]

I'm definitely not happy with [b]Pommingham[/b]'s explanation for not voting yesterday. Sure, he didn't want to lynch anyone yet, but Florent didn't actually have that many votes. If Pommingham had been holding back on voting Florent because he wanted to apply pressure to someone else, that would be one thing, but Florent is the only suspect he's given us to date. To me it looks more like he didn't want to be seen to be one of those middle-of-the-mob voters that we are so fond of going after on subsequent days.