House Dondarrion Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Vyrwel' post='1341737' date='May 4 2008, 13.22']I would think that any finder type role would use the same language and even if for some reason they didn't, I would at least question it. Your non-questioning of Aly seems more like kissing up. You could have legitimately questioned Aly but chose not to - it still doesn't sit right with me and you can spin it anyway you want. My feelings for you and Swyft are similar because there's not a lot of difference in your game play. I would much rather see you go today for the above reason. I want to see if others can add any insight and see if I'm missing something.[/quote] The language for the two finders match. The language for the two CFs match. What do you want me to do? Every finder I've ever played with had guilty/innocent results. I didn't think to question it because I didn't think it was wrong as it fit with what I expected. If you expect something different, take it up with WJ for failing to meet your expectations. I can't control that. Do you think I'm lying about my role? That makes sense :rolleyes: You've already seen me come back from the dead. What possible advantage do I gain from calling Tarbeck evil and lying about it? Did I make up the post restriction as well? Explain to me how me not questioning Aly's language makes me evil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I do think the wording is important. If it is all consistent, then 2 of the 'finders' are lying. My first impression would be that Aly and Malc are lying, cause loyal and disloyal seem more in line with the flavor of this game and Footly used it first, which you'd think he'd just fall back on innocent/guilty. Then again, Footly could have taken a chance because the wording of my role says you are 'loyal', and I assume all of the roles say loyal to some faction or other. Dondarrion would then see what wording Footly used and copied it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Vyrwel' post='1341751' date='May 4 2008, 14.42']I do think the wording is important. If it is all consistent, then 2 of the 'finders' are lying. My first impression would be that Aly and Malc are lying, cause loyal and disloyal seem more in line with the flavor of this game and Footly used it first, which you'd think he'd just fall back on innocent/guilty. Then again, Footly could have taken a chance because the wording of my role says you are 'loyal', and I assume all of the roles say loyal to some faction or other. Dondarrion would then see what wording Footly used and copied it.[/quote] Well, my role talks of loyalty (which actually kinda annoyed me since that meant I had to actually [i]read[/i] the intro scene to figure out what side I was on), so I can see what you mean. Of course, under the assumption that all investigations come back loyal/not, then both our finders would be lying, and then we're in much deeper shit than I'm willing to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 I'm not sure what to think about your role. You obviously have amazing unDead powers, but the rest of it we are taking on faith. You could have made up the restriction to confuse your vote trail or to add a little credibility - it's been done before (baaaaaaah). As for finding Tarbeck guilty, maybe again it's something you did to add credibility and usefulness to your role, thus making it less likely you would be lynched. As far as I know, your sole power is the ability to rise from the dead for 1 night. Go off the defensive for a bit and give me a reason to vote for another player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 As I see it, for the finders, the symps have to be taken into account. Symps traditionally come up innocent, but they're disloyal, technically. Killers are obviously disloyal, and innocents are loyal. Symps are somewhere in between. They can't kill, but they're disloyal. But should they come up the same as killers? In that case you wouldn't have to bother having symps in the game in the first place. Now granted, we don't know for sure that there are symps in the game...but the possibility was stated in my instructions. For people going after factions instead of killers, disloyal/loyal makes more sense. Swyft? Did I miss you revealing? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Garner' post='1341760' date='May 4 2008, 14.55']Swyft? Did I miss you revealing? :P[/quote] Swyft is not revealing anything. Swyft is a roleless innocent, and don't you forget it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Vyrwel' post='1341754' date='May 4 2008, 13.48']I'm not sure what to think about your role. You obviously have amazing unDead powers, but the rest of it we are taking on faith. You could have made up the restriction to confuse your vote trail or to add a little credibility - it's been done before (baaaaaaah). As for finding Tarbeck guilty, maybe again it's something you did to add credibility and usefulness to your role, thus making it less likely you would be lynched. As far as I know, your sole power is the ability to rise from the dead for 1 night. Go off the defensive for a bit and give me a reason to vote for another player.[/quote] I sure did plan this pretty far ahead didn't I? As soon as Day 1 began, I had a plan to do a post restriction so that when I got NKed, I would have added credibility for a role that already would have credibility because I came back alive. Right :rolleyes: Well lets look at the situation. We have two claimed finders and we're ignoring that situation. I've posted my thoughts on it and I haven't come up with an answer on who's lying. If I had to lean toward one, I'd say Garner right now if only because I think her choices make no sense when you consider her previous results. There is also the fact that she had 3 investigations. That seems like a lot in a game like this. I think it's extremely likely that one of those two are guilty and I think going after anyone else at this point would be absolute lunacy. Even if you lynch me today, you'll still have those two alive tomorrow and you'll still be trying to figure out which one is lying. Neither have any investigations left so it's not like you can give them another night and see if one of the evil teams eliminates one of them in fear. So logic tells me we should lynch one of the finders today, not the person who can withstand a NK. Which one, I'm not sure of yet. I'm thinking about it. [b]Vywrel[/b] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Actually, I do suspect you unDon and your un-night-killable status does worry me a lot. You are not going to be a target due to the uncertainty. I'm not saying you're guilty because of that, it just worries me that it will allow you to stay alive in the game far longer than I'm comfortable with. Face it, this is probably my last day to contribute and I'm not going to compromise. I really want to see one of you or Swyft lynched before I go. Hell, one of you is going today for sure. I am a Romantic Knight and am heartbroken that my soulmate was so cruelly burned to ash. I'm holding together just barely ... any moment I might flip out and take one of you down with me. I got super ninja killing powers when Kat died. Dondarrion, Swyft - you'd better each try to convince me why it shouldn't be you. My third option is Bracken because he is a complete unknown to me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Vyrwel' post='1341814' date='May 4 2008, 15.57']I got super ninja killing powers when Kat died. Dondarrion, Swyft - you'd better each try to convince me why it shouldn't be you. My third option is Bracken because he is a complete unknown to me right now.[/quote] I believe you just gave an excellent reason to take out Bracken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 *sigh* Not really, because right now he's only 3rd on my list and I can't see any momentum to vote for you or unDon, so no, not really. If I felt sure that one of you or unDon would be lynched after I left, then yes - maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tully Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 eh - I'm out for a bit but will be around in a hour or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Vyrwel' post='1341818' date='May 4 2008, 16.05']If I felt sure that one of you or unDon would be lynched after I left, then yes - maybe.[/quote] Uh, if you want to ensure that, why don't you take out one of our finders? They are, after all, the more immediate concern. You believe Garner's claim, so why not take down Mullendore with you? Unless you really believe there are two finder roles that have entirely different role descriptions, and one with an extra investigation, then they can't both be telling the truth. The only reason we'd never get around to lynching me and UnMex would be if we were too busy lynching Garner/Mullendore as I see it. As said, I'd take out Bracken for being a big, blank unknown, but that's just me. I don't really advocate an UnMex ninja unless you're really deadset on either me or him (in which case, I say him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [b]Swyft[/b], try giving her a reason not to take you, instead of saying: kill somebody else. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Garner' post='1341841' date='May 4 2008, 16.36'][b]Swyft[/b], try giving her a reason not to take you, instead of saying: kill somebody else. :P[/quote] I'd really prefer not to explain just why I should be killed tonight, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Garner' post='1341841' date='May 4 2008, 15.36'][b]Swyft[/b], try giving her a reason not to take you, instead of saying: kill somebody else. :P[/quote] She's right though. With 2 finders who are counter claiming each other, you guys are the immediate threat simply because one of you is evil. If Gert can eliminate the uncertainty behind the finders by taking one out and allowing us to lynch the other, she just saved us a day. If she's going to be so damn stupid and take me out because she doesn't like that I didn't question language I never felt was wrong, well then, she'll just make the game infinitely harder for the innocents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 Any math wizzes here? Can anybody work out the probability for: 1) 2 finders ending up in the same faction, if everything is completely randomised 2) 2 finders ending up on different factions, same condition. Which is not saying I trust Mulc. Just trying to take all possibilites into account. Strangely enough, none of them make much sense. You could also just ignore the finders for now, since all our guilties are dead anyway, and try to find some killers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Targaryen Posted May 4, 2008 Author Share Posted May 4, 2008 It is day 5. 8 players remain: Bracken, Coldwater, Dondarrion, Garner, Grandison, Mullendore, Swyft, Vyrwel. 5 votes are needed for a conviction or 4 to go to night. 1 vote for Dondarrion ( Coldwater) 1 vote for Swyft ( Garner) 1 vote for Garner ( Mullendore) 1 vote for Vyrwel ( Dondarrion) 1 vote for Bracken ( Swyft) 3 players have not voted: Bracken, Grandison, Vyrwel. 12 hours left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Redfort Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Garner' post='1341866' date='May 4 2008, 17.24']Any math wizzes here? Can anybody work out the probability for: 1) 2 finders ending up in the same faction, if everything is completely randomised 2) 2 finders ending up on different factions, same condition.[/quote] 3) 2 finders in a (at least close to) balanced game that have a [i]different number of investigations[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Tyrell Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 2 finders with the same number of investigations wouldn't generate enough paranoia. They don't want to make it too easy for us. Nobody said the game would be balanced. If WJ said the truth about totally randomizing roles and factions, everything could happen. Like Dondarrion being immortal for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Dondarrion Posted May 4, 2008 Share Posted May 4, 2008 [quote name='House Garner' post='1341879' date='May 4 2008, 17.40']2 finders with the same number of investigations wouldn't generate enough paranoia. They don't want to make it too easy for us. Nobody said the game would be balanced. If WJ said the truth about totally randomizing roles and factions, everything could happen. Like Dondarrion being immortal for example.[/quote] The game would be somewhat balanced. When Pless, Piper and I came up with roles for the last all role game, we nerfed them in order to make sure that no one role is too powerful in one factions' hand. I can't see WJ putting in 2 finders with a combined 5 investigations, a CF with 2 results and me, though of those, my role is certainly the weakest (in regards to results) since it relies on the fact that someone else dies with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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