Guy Gavriel Kay

[Jaerv]

I was really intrigued by [spoiler removed]

Hey, stop spoilering me, please! I've not read the book yet but plan to do so.

[Goldzor]

Just read Tigane and Lions of Al-Rassan and I loved it

I have a favor for Lions of Al-Rassan though. I preferred the background and the characters to those of Tigane. I also like the fact that this is a world without magic even if in Tigane, it only becomes more apparent at the end of the story.

I know that a lot of recommendation have been made in this thread but for fans of Al Rassan, which other GGK book should I read (no magic or low magic) ? And what other book might be interesting in the same vein but by other authors ?

[kuroishi]

Just read Tigane and Lions of Al-Rassan and I loved it

I have a favor for Lions of Al-Rassan though. I preferred the background and the characters to those of Tigane. I also like the fact that this is a world without magic even if in Tigane, it only becomes more apparent at the end of the story.

I know that a lot of recommendation have been made in this thread but for fans of Al Rassan, which other GGK book should I read (no magic or low magic) ? And what other book might be interesting in the same vein but by other authors ?

The nearest in feeling to Al-Rassan would be the Sarantine mosaic duology in my opinion.

By the way, Tigane ? Did you read it in french ? We're the only country I know that decided to translate Tigana to Tigane. (because of football player/manager Jean Tigana it seems)

[williamjm]

I know that a lot of recommendation have been made in this thread but for fans of Al Rassan, which other GGK book should I read (no magic or low magic) ? And what other book might be interesting in the same vein but by other authors ?

The Sarantine Mosaic and The Last Light of the Sun both take place in the same world as Lions (although there's not real plot connection) and they both have a similarly low amount of magic. I really liked the former, but thought Last Light was fairly average.

[Goldzor]

The nearest in feeling to Al-Rassan would be the Sarantine mosaic duology in my opinion.

By the way, Tigane ? Did you read it in french ? We're the only country I know that decided to translate Tigana to Tigane. (because of football player/manager Jean Tigana it seems)

Yes. Read it in french. Well the change didn't bother me that much. As it is set in a world close to what is Italy, both Tigane or Tigana works well :) I have seen worse than that.

Thanks for the advices.

[kuroishi]

Yes. Read it in french. Well the change didn't bother me that much. As it is set in a world close to what is Italy, both Tigane or Tigana works well :) I have seen worse than that.

Thanks for the advices.

I first read it in french as well, the translation is quite good, and the Tigane/Tigana thing works alright indeed :).

In fact, reading about people crying "Tigana ! Tigana !" on my first read would have felt weird, akin to people crying "Lineker ! Lineker !" for English readers.

[Imagica]

Sigh. It seems that none of Kay's books can ever live up to Lions of Al-Rassan for me. Tried reading Tigana yesterday. Sadly, the prose was nowhere near the level of Sarantium or Lions. However, I liked the beginning (except for Devin, who is bland and generic; seems Kay has a thing for such characters, reminded me of Alvar from Lions and the main character from Last Light), loved Dianora's POV, but things went downhill from there. I was all wtf-y after reading the Night Walkers stuff - it really came out from nowhere and I had no idea where it was going to. Also, "Girl of the Week" encounters felt really, really unnecessary plot-wise (and made me dislike the characters participating) - we got Alinor and Devin, Elena and Baerd, that merchant's daughters... Anyway, despite being interested in Dianora's story I kinda gave up on the book and looked up the ending. Doing it really saved me some major disappointment.

Well, I still think I'll finish Sarantium someday - I've read a half of the first book and my only gripe was the somewhat messianic main character having sex with a slave who reminded him earlier of his daughter. Creepy. And every female character, including young and hot Duchess (or something like that), wanting to get into his pants. I could understand this about Devin from Tigana, who, after all, was a young pretty bard, but 33 year old mosaicist widower? Seriously?

[etcetera]

Sigh. It seems that none of Kay's books can ever live up to Lions of Al-Rassan for me. Tried reading Tigana yesterday. Sadly, the prose was nowhere near the level of Sarantium or Lions. However, I liked the beginning (except for Devin, who is bland and generic; seems Kay has a thing for such characters, reminded me of Alvar from Lions and the main character from Last Light), loved Dianora's POV, but things went downhill from there. I was all wtf-y after reading the Night Walkers stuff - it really came out from nowhere and I had no idea where it was going to. Also, "Girl of the Week" encounters felt really, really unnecessary plot-wise (and made me dislike the characters participating) - we got Alinor and Devin, Elena and Baerd, that merchant's daughters... Anyway, despite being interested in Dianora's story I kinda gave up on the book and looked up the ending. Doing it really saved me some major disappointment.

Well, I still think I'll finish Sarantium someday - I've read a half of the first book and my only gripe was the somewhat messianic main character having sex with a slave who reminded him earlier of his daughter. Creepy. And every female character, including young and hot Duchess (or something like that), wanting to get into his pants. I could understand this about Devin from Tigana, who, after all, was a young pretty bard, but 33 year old mosaicist widower? Seriously?

Before I get to my criticisms, I will say that overall I really like Guy Gavriel Kay's books (at least most of them), and I'll pick up nearly anything he writes. Even when I'm not pleased with his plots or characters, his books are usually very compellingly readable. I particularly like how he integrates his themes with myth and history, but find his plots are often very contrived yet are often redeemed by his themes and the lyricism in telling the tale. However, he does have some annoying habits in each and every one of his books -- characters that are over-the-top perfect, clever or awesome in some way, for example. I really hate it when authors try to make their characters clever only by making everyone else around them incompetent or stupid, and Kay is very bad about that. He also likes to dabble with a bit of reader misdirection which is also annoying.

Imagica, I didn't like *the girl of the week* encounters in Tigana, either. I nearly flung the book against the wall at one point because of that, but glad I stuck with it because I really did like what he did with his themes and how he ended it. I'm reading the Sarantine Mosaic right now and it will not be a favorite of mine. Kay's writing can be very lyrical, but he ruins it when he stoops to vulgarity and sophomoric dialogue. Two characters have a cursing contest, for crying out loud, and ugh! how I hate all the sexual intrigue with beautiful women wanting to get into Crispin's pants. I guess I expect Kay to give us something more mature. Maybe I'm being nitpicky?

[Imagica]

but glad I stuck with it because I really did like what he did with his themes and how he ended it.

Seeing that

If I'm not mistaken, Dianora took her own life after Brandin's murder by jester-who-really-was-Valentine and never even met her brother again, considering she was the only character I actually cared about, I really don't like how he ended it. And Baerd got it on with that annoying Elena girl that came from nowhere in the middle of the book without any build-up. Although I didn't read what happened to the other characters, I was a bit angry :)

Two characters have a cursing contest, for crying out loud, and ugh! how I hate all the sexual intrigue with beautiful women wanting to get into Crispin's pants. I guess I expect Kay to give us something more mature. Maybe I'm being nitpicky?

Oh, I understand you so much :) This "wish fulfillment" crap feels so stupid and immature, I'm amazed how an author can be so great in some aspects, yet totally fail in others. At least in Lions the protagonist was a woman, and it was somewhat plausible why she was so desirable by male characters (although it too went over the top, in my opinion. Two love interests were enough, three? too many). In Sarantium, it's just a wallbanger. Please tell me if it ever gets better (I've stopped just before they arrived to Sarantium itself, I think).

[Alexia]

Seeing that

If I'm not mistaken, Dianora took her own life after Brandin's murder by jester-who-really-was-Valentine and never even met her brother again, considering she was the only character I actually cared about, I really don't like how he ended it. And Baerd got it on with that annoying Elena girl that came from nowhere in the middle of the book without any build-up. Although I didn't read what happened to the other characters, I was a bit angry :)

I pretty much agree with you about Elena. Some build-up really would have been appreciated there.

I was up until 1pm last night reading Last Light of the Sun - I'm almost done with it. I actually think I like it even better than Tigana; I definitely like the characters a lot better. Although I'm still having fits of the shudders over the blood-eagle. :ack:

[Imagica]

I was up until 1pm last night reading Last Light of the Sun - I'm almost done with it.

Oh, then please answer my question about Last Light! It's a bit higher on the page... or I can quote it here, instead.

I've dropped it quite some time ago but, being naturally curious, still have to ask if the main character (younger brother) and his love interest really turn out to be as sueish as they seemed in the beginning, and their romance - destined and inevitable. It was the main reason I've dropped the book: too cringeworthy for my taste. Too bad, the storyline about the other brother who was taken by fairies seemed to be promising.

[Alexia]

Oh, then please answer my question about Last Light! It's a bit higher on the page... or I can quote it here, instead.

They do indeed seem pretty sueish (the Erling men much less so) but the romance doesn't seem that destined and/or inevitable. I'm not even sure the crush is still there after he acted like such an ass to her but I haven't finished the book and he's about to come back in contact with her and her family so we'll see.

To be fair, Alun has flaws - a nasty streak of racism being principal. Although I rather understand it given that blood-eagle.

But,

There's a most fascinating romance going on between him and one of the faeries.

Anyway, the main storyline of the book isn't the romance but culture clash and warfare between the Erlings and the other cultures so I haven't found it cringeworthy.

[Imagica]

Well, do tell me if there won't be romance between him and Rhiannon (sp?) :) I think I'll pick up the book then.

BTW, does the vikingesque warrior from the prologue make an appearance later? For some reason, I liked him more than the protagonist (or disliked less...)

[Alexia]

Well, do tell me if there won't be romance between him and Rhiannon (sp?) :) I think I'll pick up the book then.

BTW, does the vikingesque warrior from the prologue make an appearance later? For some reason, I liked him more than the protagonist (or disliked less...)

Yes, he's a principal character and a pretty cool one IMO. I also like him better than Alun. And the psycho who attacked the farm shows up too - he even gets a point of view...*shudders* ;)

[Patrick Mallister]

Oh, then please answer my question about Last Light! It's a bit higher on the page... or I can quote it here, instead.

Spoiler

No, Alun and Rhiannon (I assume that's who you're talking about, there are several people that Alun does/could get involved with) do not get together. They do meet up later, but there isn't a whole lot of contact.

[Questionmark]

I liked all his later books (after fionavar that is. I hate the "teenager-being-transported-to-a-magical-world-thing"), but the one which really stands out for me is Sarantium, because not having a warrior/wizard or whatever as the main character, and instead a craftsman/artist, was really a good change from most other fantasy novels I've read. Really good idea. And the Byzantine setting was nice too, you don't see that often.

[Imagica]

I assume that's who you're talking about, there are several people that Alun does/could get involved with)

Oh god. Not another Crispin... What's the deal with Kay and this harem style? It's not a dating sim!

[Alexia]

Oh god. Not another Crispin... What's the deal with Kay and this harem style? It's not a dating sim!

Nah, I didn't interpret it that way.

Rhiannon is just a childish crush - kind of like Sansa/Loras. I never thought it had any more depth than that.

The faerie seems to be his major "romance" thus far. I don't think it'll go too far because she's immortal and he's not. Unless he decides to join her in her world or something.

So, that means that he must have an actual human girl lined up (unless he's supposed to die) that he'll probably meet in the last few pages of the book.

Definitely didn't seem like he had a harem to me. Whereas I definitely understood that vibe with Devin and Co.

[Imagica]

Oh, all right then. Yeah, Devin really was over the top, but at least it was a bit more understandable than Crispin.

[etcetera]

I really liked Last Light of the Sun, but that may be in part because I like that place and period of history. I quite liked the faerie subplot, his atmospheric depiction of Alfred the Great (ah, those fever dreams!), and the way he conveyed the incongruity of time between the human and faerie worlds. Although you do feel some romance between several of the characters, I don't remember the sexual attractions being given much screen time (and the attractions that exist are more of the cerebral, mental kind than sexual), which was another reason why I liked it -- none of those sexual conquests to interfere with deeper elements of the story. It does suffer a little bit from being tied up too neatly in the end, but otherwise, I thought it was lovely.

As for Sarantium, there are enough interesting things going on with secondary characters to keep me reading, but the annoying things don't get better. What I'd love to know (as I know there are quite a few history buffs on this board) is how those well versed in Byzantium history feel about Kay's characterizations of Valerius, Alixana and Leontes who are basically stand-ins for Justinian, Theodora and Belisarius with some historical tampering.