Why does everybody hate Sansa?

[Liadin]

A situation like this was, regarding the immense love between Starks and Lannisters, foreseeable. Thus, it would have been nice to prepare her.

Indeed. Ned had heard Sansa's story three days before the confrontation upon Arya's return. He might have coached her a bit. (Although, the number of people who were there for the hearing surprised him too. But he might have taken the opportunity to talk to Robert, in private, about how they were going to settle things.)

I think Sansa was old enough to be told when Ned decided he was going to break off the engagement. As was mentioned (much) earlier: if you can take 7-year-old to witness executions, you can explain basic facts of political life to an 11-year-old.

[Kate Poem]

I don't like Sansa, because:

1/She knew the true about Joffrey, Arya, Micah and Nymeria, but she lied before the King. Why? She did'nt want punishment for her aaah beloved Joffie. Damn stupid little sister, they could punish her too, never mind, but not Joffie.

2/She was thinking all of it was Arya's fault.

3/She had'nt respect and any feelings for her brother Jon.

4/She was blind and deaf with Joffrey. She knew he loved killing, but she told herself "only animals". She knew he lied.

5/She said Cersei about her father's plans.

6/She was thinking about herself. Mostly.

[tuthmoses]

I've read and re-read the SoIaF series (thus far) several times, but I never thought to join any communities until now. Sansa was one of my favorite characters, she was naive and foolish and a little stupid, but I felt so sorry for her, and she was a refreshing change to the world-weary views of many of the other characters, even Arya and Bran being more cynical than her.

When I discovered that she was a very unpopular character, even more so than the murderous Jamie Lannister or turncloak Theon Greyjoy, I was speechless! Catelyn Stark I can just understand the dislike for ( Though I disagree with that too), but Sansa? It seems unjustified. She made many foolish mistakes, she was vain and blind, but I don't think she deserves death like so many seem to think. Sadly I don't think Sansa will last the series (GRRM loves killing people) but I was under the impression I would not be the only one who was sad to see her go.

I've come to really really like sansa ... on my first read many many years ago i disliked her for the obvious reasons but a few years later when I reread the series she became one of my favourite characters ... people seem to forget that she is only a young teenage girl and she is written as such ... ie realistically ... so she is naive and a little selfish (what teenage girl isn't?) and so she wants everything to be nice and pretty and dreams about knights and handsome princes - does that make her worthy of hate? ... short answer NO

and if you ask me Sansa is going to do some major awesome shit before the series is done

[Raksha the Demon]

I've always liked Sansa; and found her an interesting and very well-written character. I find her much more credible than Arya; and I enjoyed watching Sansa evolve from naive and spoiled little girl to a teenager who has survived suffering, outwitted Lannisters, and, while still in great danger, has learned a great deal about the world without losing her compassion.

[Medieval Housefly]

I used to hate Sansa, and I feel all her suffering has been well earned. It's the snide things she'd say and think. How should emphasized Jon's bastard status in the first book, and how when Jeyne Poole would confess a crush she would think to herself how the knight would never marry someone of her low birth (the thought sounded snide). Her desire for power also annoyed me.

Now, I enjoy her more. I'm not exactly liking her, but I'm okay with her.

Ironically, I want Tyrion to end up being the knight she always dreamed of whether he be flying in on a dragon or do something especially heroic, and I want her to realize how shitty she was to the man that refused to take rape her, or have her when she didn't want him, who saved her from embarrassment on their wedding day at his own expense, who saved her from Joffrey when she was half naked in I think it was the keep?, and who had more honor in his half nose than she does in her entire being.

[Black Amethyst]

I don't hate her at all. I think she is an interesting character. It's almost like people get offended when she starts to think like a teenage girl, which she is.

[littlebird_]

I want her to realize how shitty she was to the man that refused to take rape her, or have her when she didn't want him, who saved her from embarrassment on their wedding day at his own expense, who saved her from Joffrey when she was half naked in I think it was the keep?, and who had more honor in his half nose than she does in her entire being.

Of course, she should just consider people who don't rape her to be heroes regardless of the family they come from and instead of focusing on her own humiliation of being forced in to a marriage and her grief about losing her entire family, she should make sure that Tyrion is feeling good about himself. Its not like he is part of the family that destroyed hers, its not like he is keeping her hostage. She acknowledges he is kind, she is the victim here and does not owe him anything more. Of course, the man who killed his father and Shae has more honor than her the little girl who was just naive and spoiled.

[An Ironborn Son]

I think that's what makes her so hard of a character to judge either way because either: a. one writes her off for being a dumb 12 year old or you b. give her a break for being 12 years old.

Sansa certainly isn't Arya in terms of how she responds to adversity, she's no fighter. I guess where I am left as a reader is trying to see beyond that and making her actions make sense to me. So after GoT she's basically abandoned in King's Landing with no one to protect her from Joffery. Her response is to submit completely to the new King doing everything she can to placate him. Yes, I understand that there's a certain amount of survival instinct in that but at the same time it makes me almost believe that the girl has forced herself to consider her father a traitor. And maybe to her own rationality he is...but still, to go completely against the man who raised you? I guess I would have appreciated a bit more exposition on Sansa coming to gripes with Eddard or even her mother...

Because then we do have this move towards her being some sort of stronger willed character, Alayne Stone. But that sort of rings untrue to me, she now has placed her complete trust in Littlefinger to help her. But she has to be thinking in her head...why didn't he try to help my mother? Perhaps she is glossing over this burning question to ease her own concerns. She also has started to lie, repeatedly which may not be a bad thing given what happens in the game of thrones. So then my surprise comes out again when she hears mention of Jon Snow and wistfully considers a reunion. Wha??? For someone who had so completely abandoned her Stark roots, I don't know why she would ever want to hang out with the 'bastard' who she never ever liked. Yeah, the readership knows she wasn't too fond of Ayra but she at least considered her blood and never felt that way about Snow but comes to later on?

For me, I am very conflicted on Sansa because I feel at her core Sansa is conflicted. Yet at the same time her siblings both older and younger seem more prepared to take steps to move themselves forward she clings to this middle ground. Could Sansa one day turn into the next Littlefinger in terms of power? Sure, but I don't see it yet. Could she get used up and discarded like any other pawn? Also likely but unsure at the moment. I'm aware that a lot of these ambiguities play into who Sansa is as a character but I really just want her to pick a side. Ultimately, as a Stark fan I'd like her to make it clear whether she's with them or against them.

[Raksha the Demon]

I used to hate Sansa, and I feel all her suffering has been well earned. It's the snide things she'd say and think. How should emphasized Jon's bastard status in the first book, and how when Jeyne Poole would confess a crush she would think to herself how the knight would never marry someone of her low birth (the thought sounded snide). Her desire for power also annoyed me.

Now, I enjoy her more. I'm not exactly liking her, but I'm okay with her.

Ironically, I want Tyrion to end up being the knight she always dreamed of whether he be flying in on a dragon or do something especially heroic, and I want her to realize how shitty she was to the man that refused to take rape her, or have her when she didn't want him, who saved her from embarrassment on their wedding day at his own expense, who saved her from Joffrey when she was half naked in I think it was the keep?, and who had more honor in his half nose than she does in her entire being.

A man who had so much honor would not have allowed his 12-year-old bride to take off all her clothes in front of him on their wedding night and then strip himself. He only decided after seeing her naked that they could delay the consummation; by which point Sansa was frightened, confused but still trying to do her duty by finding something physically attractive in Tyrion.

To Sansa, Tyrion was never anything more than a jailer. A kinder jailer than Joffrey, a jailer Sansa was pretty certain wouldn't slap her around, a jailer who had protected her from other jailers, but still a jailer. Not to mention a Lannister, a member of the family who destroyed hers. She wasn't "shitty" to Tyrion; she tried to be dutiful but realized she was incapable of physically desiring him when Tyrion put her in a position that Sansa was too young to be in, i.e. seeing her husband's naked body. A few months' menstruation does not turn a 12-year-old girl into a woman, either physically or emotionally.

[Brucolac]

I can't imagine why people would dislike the Sansa POVs. She is a slightly flat character but she is extremely dynamic. Also, her viewpoint is usually in the critical area of events. She was a great way to give an overview of what is happening around the Seven Kingdoms while she was in Kings Landing and the events that occurred there, and since running off with Little Finger, she has become far more interesting in her own right while her chapters have diminished in number as they should when she moved to a peripheral role. The reason he had to add Cersei was because she was no longer there to tell us what was going on, and I much prefer reading a sometimes silly child's POV to an always irrational Cersei POV.

[littlebird_]

why didn't he try to help my mother? Perhaps she is glossing over this burning question to ease her own concerns.

She actually does think to herself that Littlefinger never helped her but now he is and she is trying to be practical, what are her options at the moment?

She also has started to lie, repeatedly which may not be a bad thing given what happens in the game of thrones. So then my surprise comes out again when she hears mention of Jon Snow and wistfully considers a reunion. Wha??? For someone who had so completely abandoned her Stark roots, I don't know why she would ever want to hang out with the 'bastard' who she never ever liked. Yeah, the readership knows she wasn't too fond of Ayra but she at least considered her blood and never felt that way about Snow but comes to later on?

It is supposed to show development and change, she is now a bastard and understands what being one might mean and thinks has lost all her brothers and has one left so she's happy.

Yet at the same time her siblings both older and younger seem more prepared to take steps to move themselves forward she clings to this middle ground.

How so? They were all in different situations and context matters, does she take a sword and go around King's Landing trying to kill everyone, Sansa knows her strengths, she can not survive outside of court and she can survive inside court and she does.

Sometimes I think Sansa has a better grasp of how to survive at court than most people criticizing her do, what else was she supposed to do? Bran goes off on his own with friends, Arya meets friends on the way and now even Arya has given up trying to go back home, Sansa tried in King's Landing all that time to get out by whatever little opportunities she got, of course she didn't try and run out, now that would have been stupid, but she was trying to escape, again I am not sure what is expected of her here?

Her response is to submit completely to the new King doing everything she can to placate him. Yes, I understand that there's a certain amount of survival instinct in that but at the same time it makes me almost believe that the girl has forced herself to consider her father a traitor.

What? She says those things to Joffrey and Cersei and even Cersei tells her that everyone knows she's lying when she calls her father and brother a traitor and her internal thoughts reveal that she doesn't feel like that AT ALL.

[Errant Bard]

For someone who had so completely abandoned her Stark roots, I don't know why she would ever want to hang out with the 'bastard' who she never ever liked. Yeah, the readership knows she wasn't too fond of Ayra but she at least considered her blood and never felt that way about Snow but comes to later on?

That's your problem right there. She never abandoned her "Stark roots": that idea is a total fabrication by those who refused to read the instances where she wished to kill Joffrey, to have Robb bring Joff's head to her, to warn Tyrells that Joff was a monster (he killed her father), when she built a snow Winterfell and felt stronger in it, when she fancied she heard ghost wolves in the wind, or, indeed, when she thought about Jon.

Likewise for Jon, that she "never liked him" is a fabrication. She is precise in her vocabulary: Jon is indeed her half brother; beyond that she is the one who taught Jon to talk to girls, the member of the family both Jon and Arya consider close enough to joke about not telling her stuff (she's likely a tattle-tale.) Jon is a member of her family, and she never disliked him. Too much is made of her being conscious of social rank: social rank does exist, it's real, it's not a case of high-school snobbism from the local Libby. She also knows Jeyne Poole is just a steward's daughter, I don't see people claiming she dislike Jeyne.

As for Arya... It was sibling rivalry, but both girls like each others, deep down: Arya forsakes her wish to see King's Landing sunk because Sansa is in there, she also envies Sansa for "doing everything beautifully", while Sansa envies Arya for being so "wicked". The KL quarrel was over Lady's death: it's big enough to warrant some hostility.

Because then we do have this move towards her being some sort of stronger willed character, Alayne Stone.

But she didn't change, she just got more power. She did boss people around as Sansa Stark, when she was not under the thumb of a psychopath. As for her mettle, she is steel, just like Arya, just not as proactive, and without gifts such as a Jaqen in her castle prison, or a pack of wolves to cover her escape.

I don't get your objection about LF and "saving Catelyn". Why should Sansa think LF could do anything for one woman more powerful than him in the war-torn riverlands, while he cannot even control the Vale?

[Raksha the Demon]

She actually does think to herself that Littlefinger never helped her but now he is and she is trying to be practical, what are her options at the moment?

It is supposed to show development and change, she is now a bastard and understands what being one might mean and thinks has lost all her brothers and has one left so she's happy.

How so? They were all in different situations and context matters, does she take a sword and go around King's Landing trying to kill everyone, Sansa knows her strengths, she can not survive outside of court and she can survive inside court and she does.

Sometimes I think Sansa has a better grasp of how to survive at court than most people criticizing her do, what else was she supposed to do? Bran goes off on his own with friends, Arya meets friends on the way and now even Arya has given up trying to go back home, Sansa tried in King's Landing all that time to get out by whatever little opportunities she got, of course she didn't try and run out, now that would have been stupid, but she was trying to escape, again I am not sure what is expected of her here?

What? She says those things to Joffrey and Cersei and even Cersei tells her that everyone knows she's lying when she calls her father and brother a traitor and her internal thoughts reveal that she doesn't feel like that AT ALL.

Sansa demonstrated an increasing, and quite mature, amount of self-control after Ned's death. She is not telling people at court that her family are traitors just to use protective verbal coloration; she's also trying to avoid being beaten, which happens when she doesn't say the right type of thing to Joffrey or tells him what she really thinks. She's been exploited by Cersei, Tyrion, the Tyrells, and now Littlefinger; all of them older and smarter and more powerful than she is; and Sansa has learned more and more that her best bet is to keep quiet and observe, learn the situation, and wait for a time when she can turn a situation to her advantage. And she has managed to deceive the extremely perceptive Tyrion as to her motives and plans; he never even had a clue that she was planning an escape.

Both Sansa and Arya have been in danger since Ned's death; and used different coping mechanisms to survive in a world that wanted to use and abuse them. Neither of them is old enough and strong enough to survive on their own terms - yet. They are both under the tutelage of very immoral people; Arya as a willing ward of killers who are teaching her to be an assassin; Sansa as pawn and protege of a man who once loved her mother and engineered her father's death (which Sansa doesn't know) and who also wants Sansa as his love object as well as a pseudo-daughter. I would say that Sansa and Arya are still in danger; but they are strong young girls who have already weathered situations that would have killed older and supposedly wiser people. I am not sure that Arya will actually become a full-fledged assassin for hire; and I doubt that Sansa will become Littlefinger's whore or willing accomplice in Sweetrobin's death. But only GRRM knows what's really going to happen; though I can predict with some confidence that if he plans for only one Stark daughter to survive, it will be Arya.

[littlebird_]

That's your problem right there. She never abandoned her "Stark roots": that idea is a total fabrication by those who refused to read the instances where she wished to kill Joffrey, to have Robb bring Joff's head to her, to warn Tyrells that Joff was a monster (he killed her father), when she built a snow Winterfell and felt stronger in it, when she fancied she heard ghost wolves in the wind, or, indeed, when she thought about Jon.

Likewise for Jon, that she "never liked him" is a fabrication. She is precise in her vocabulary: Jon is indeed her half brother; beyond that she is the one who taught Jon to talk to girls, the member of the family both Jon and Arya consider close enough to joke about not telling her stuff (she's likely a tattle-tale.) Jon is a member of her family, and she never disliked him. Too much is made of her being conscious of social rank: social rank does exist, it's real, it's not a case of high-school snobbism from the local Libby. She also knows Jeyne Poole is just a steward's daughter, I don't see people claiming she dislike Jeyne.

As for Arya... It was sibling rivalry, but both girls like each others, deep down: Arya forsakes her wish to see King's Landing sunk because Sansa is in there, she also envies Sansa for "doing everything beautifully", while Sansa envies Arya for being so "wicked". The KL quarrel was over Lady's death: it's big enough to warrant some hostility.

But she didn't change, she just got more power. She did boss people around as Sansa Stark, when she was not under the thumb of a psychopath. As for her mettle, she is steel, just like Arya, just not as proactive, and without gifts such as a Jaqen in her castle prison, or a pack of wolves to cover her escape.

Thank you for this post, these are all things I wanted to express but you did it so much more eloquently, in the future I might steal some of your arguments :D Sansa is using the tools she has to survive, its not like she had someone grant her three wishes and refused it, she is locked up in a castle with some of the best players in the game, a game she did not know existed and she has to learn and adopt and get out of there.

Sometimes it feels like the readers take the sibling rivalry between the two girls more seriously than the two girls themselves. I said I hate to you to my older sister almost daily when I was 8 or 9, guess what I actually didn't hate her.

She's been exploited by Cersei, Tyrion, the Tyrells, and now Littlefinger; all of them older and smarter and more powerful than she is; and Sansa has learned more and more that her best bet is to keep quiet and observe, learn the situation, and wait for a time when she can turn a situation to her advantage. And she has managed to deceive the extremely perceptive Tyrion as to her motives and plans; he never even had a clue that she was planning an escape.

Exactly, Sansa is up against the biggest players in the game and she tries her best to manage that situation and get out of there. These are people who are using everyone and sometimes each other as pawns, a 12 year old girl fooling them is actually quite an accomplishment.

They are both under the tutelage of very immoral people; Arya as a willing ward of killers who are teaching her to be an assassin; Sansa as pawn and protege of a man who once loved her mother and engineered her father's death (which Sansa doesn't know) and who also wants Sansa as his love object as well as a pseudo-daughter. I would say that Sansa and Arya are still in danger; but they are strong young girls who have already weathered situations that would have killed older and supposedly wiser people. I am not sure that Arya will actually become a full-fledged assassin for hire; and I doubt that Sansa will become Littlefinger's whore or willing accomplice in Sweetrobin's death. But only GRRM knows what's really going to happen; though I can predict with some confidence that if he plans for only one Stark daughter to survive, it will be Arya.

They are actually in similar predicaments but with different players and different strengths but neither one is out of danger yet. I agree, I can not see GRRM killing Arya, I am hoping both girls get to live in the end but if its going to be one then its Arya.

[Kirazi]

I've always liked Sansa, and enjoyed reading her chapters. She was a teenaged noble -- yeah, she is going to be vain and naive!! She hadn't experienced any harshness in the world. And now she has, and has grown up a bit as Alayne Stone.

Sansa is great. Her chapters always have interesting, and crazy, characters in them -- Joffery, Sandor Clegane and Littlefinger. They kept me glued. More Sansa chapters please!

[Ten Steps]

I disliked her when she was still on her "I love Joffrey" moments but after Ned's death I was beginning to like her but that slipped into indifference while she's at the Vale. I don't know but the Vale just oozes this aura of boring for me.

[Boy and Girl Wadish]

I don't understand why some people hate her either. I just see Sansa as a naive, shallow girl who is off for a big change. I think it's a given even in the start of the series that she has a lot of growing up to do, and it's what she's doing in AFFC. She has gotten pretty interesting and cynical.

[littlebird_]

but that slipped into indifference while she's at the Vale. I don't know but the Vale just oozes this aura of boring for me.

I can sympathize with that, one of the reasons I do love reading about her is because I love the political side of the story more than the fantasy and I love reading about someone learning about the game rather than just seeing the court through the eyes of people who are already players. But I am indifferent to Bran's story because I do not care much for who is warging into who. We all find different parts of the story intriguing and they are what draws us in. Though I don't hate the kid for having an arc I don't enjoy, just indifference.

[Zeromus]

I love Sansa because I love realistic characters. The dragons, zombies, giants, ice demons, magic wolves and ancient magicians growing into trees are just minor distractions from the overall realism of the series.

[An Ironborn Son]

She actually does think to herself that Littlefinger never helped her but now he is and she is trying to be practical, what are her options at the moment?

Well, I supposed at the very moment when she leaves King's Landing she doesn't have many options although she didn't really explore any. She might have tried the Tyrells before she was married to Tyrion or even escaped with Sandor when he came to her. It seemed at least from a story standpoint that Sansa was waiting for something to happen or more likely someone to happen.

It is supposed to show development and change, she is now a bastard and understands what being one might mean and thinks has lost all her brothers and has one left so she's happy.

I think I'll have to go back and re-read GoT but I don't remember Sansa ever considering him a brother in the same way. I do agree that now she probably understands what life was like for Jon all those years but still out of all the siblings it appeared that Jon and Rob had a pretty good relationship but that Snow got along best with Arya. And even here, if she really wanted to see Jon and have a grand reunion she might have been trying to figure out a way to get to him.

How so? They were all in different situations and context matters, does she take a sword and go around King's Landing trying to kill everyone, Sansa knows her strengths, she can not survive outside of court and she can survive inside court and she does.

Sometimes I think Sansa has a better grasp of how to survive at court than most people criticizing her do, what else was she supposed to do? Bran goes off on his own with friends, Arya meets friends on the way and now even Arya has given up trying to go back home, Sansa tried in King's Landing all that time to get out by whatever little opportunities she got, of course she didn't try and run out, now that would have been stupid, but she was trying to escape, again I am not sure what is expected of her here?

I guess here we are at odds about what surviving at court means. Once Eddard is dead, her freedom is pretty much completely gone and her life is completely depended on Joffrey's whims and Cersei's manipulations. She had to ingratiate herself at every turn, suffering beatings and humiliations at the King's hands so she wouldn't end up as a head on a spike. What she knows of court is trying to keep the little psycho happy, which involves parroting a lot of courtly jargon. As to expectations, I guess I didn't think we saw her trying to broker any sort of alliances or help. Tyrion yes was a Lannister and all that but she had to have at least appreciated the fact that he was waiting to consummate the marriage and stood up for her against his nephew yet she treated him like dirt cause he looked funny.

What? She says those things to Joffrey and Cersei and even Cersei tells her that everyone knows she's lying when she calls her father and brother a traitor and her internal thoughts reveal that she doesn't feel like that AT ALL.

Well, we know that she hates Joffrey and Cersei that's pretty clear but I guess I was unconvinced in regards to her father. I think that she wanted Robb to win so that he might save her. Personally, I would have liked an actual moment where she expressed some sorrow that her dad was dead or at least tried to remind herself, yeah Littlefinger is my fake dad, my real dad died protecting me...