Mafia 75 -- Revolution in Vanillaville

[House Tyrell]

Well sure, but if your objective is to get a conversation going, you do more than just say "I agree with you."

I agree with you. They should :P

[House Dalt]

I forgot, no two people can find the same thing suspicious in this game, otherwise one of them is evil :P

Your reaction to Westerling's accusation just rang a little false to me. Like for example, I'm taking a more adversarial tone right now in addressing people because I want them to react in a way that helps me get a better read on them.

You dismissed Westerling instead of trying to get your own read on him. That I find suspicious.

I don't need to interact with someone to get a read, you know ;). You've got to get to know everyone, not just the loudmouths, so I thought I'd try looking into someone who was a bit more terse. Also, why are you calling yourself adversarial? You don't seem to have said anything remotely spiky yet, just asked a few questions. It sounds like your trying to give themselves a reputation they don't deserve. I notice Vance said this:

The idea is to make a vote that will get people to react, even if my not-really-a-case sucks. More communication is always better.

It's day 1 and I have nothing to go on from most players. Maybe this will get some more thoughts from Fossoway. It already got a new post out of you.

And yeah, you already know my thinking on your suspicion on Reed. I don't think wondering about a role is the same thing as fishing for a role. And frankly I don't suspect you very much because I don't expect an FM to be so aggressive this early.

Perhaps you saw that and thought "Right, I'd better claim to be aggressive so that no-one suspects me".

EDIT: Added "Claim to", which didn't quite make it into the original post

[House Tyrell]

I don't need to interact with someone to get a read, you know ;). You've got to get to know everyone, not just the loudmouths, so I thought I'd try looking into someone who was a bit more terse. Also, why are you calling yourself adversarial? You don't seem to have said anything remotely spiky yet, just asked a few questions. It sounds like your trying to give themselves a reputation they don't deserve. I notice Vance said this:

Perhaps you saw that and thought "Right, I'd better claim to be aggressive so that no-one suspects me".

EDIT: Added "Claim to", which didn't quite make it into the original post

Come on, you know what I mean... you're doing it too. (At least I think you are :P)

[House Dalt]

Come on, you know what I mean... you're doing it too. (At least I think you are :P)

If that were what I was doing, I wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone. You, on the other hand, did, and at a point where there would be good incentive to do so, were you a...deviant. :uhoh: And now, when I point out the discrepancy between how you claim to have been playing and how you are actually playing, you are definitely not living up to your claims. Your tone is playful and friendly even when defending your claim to being hard and spiky. It seems to back up my assertion.

[House Tyrell]

If that were what I was doing, I wouldn't feel the need to tell everyone. You, on the other hand, did, and at a point where there would be good incentive to do so, were you a...deviant. :uhoh:

I only did so to prove a point --that Reed was not doing the same thing.

And if it was an opportune time to do so, how'd you so easily ferret out my 'deviant' motivations? :P

[Sir Thursday]

Oops.

[House Velaryon]

Ok, I'm back. Thoughts:

Than, why so late? What prevented you from voting Fossoway a couple of hours earlier?

I went to bed thinking about the hider role, and its best use, because I'm a dork that way. It was the first thing on my mind and the first thing I posted about in the time I had to get on the board this morning.

I came back a few hours later, saw that things were still going slowly, and thought I'd put down a vote on Fossoway to try to get some more contribution out of him before I left for work.

People often focus on how an innocent would behave, which as you say isn't really that useful since there isn't a right answer. A more useful question is: how wouldn't a killer behave? Later in the game there is an answer to that question, and you can actually get somewhere. But until that point, this is what we're left with to tease over.

That sums up my feelings pretty well. I would call you reasonable, but that's the kiss of death in mafia. :P

General thoughts:

- Not really liking the cases against either Reed or Bolton. In my eyes, Reed has been taking the case on him very personally, which I don't usually see FMs do. Bolton is the opposite extreme - too nonchalant. In his case I'd expect him to be more engaged or more defensive if evil.

- Because of my thinking on Reed and Bolton, I'm a little suspicious of Tarth Estermont and Fossoway. I feel like Reed and Bolton are too easy targets and I'm wary of mobs forming on them.

- I'm having trouble getting a read on Ashford. Ashford, care to share your thoughts on someone besides Estermont?

- I'd love if Connington and Frey would post more.

I'm not sure about who to vote for right now, so I'll leave my vote for the moment. I'll be around a lot tonight, looking forward to hearing what all of you think.

[edit]Said Tarth when I meant Estermont, fixed it.

[House Targaryen]

Even evil mods think alts are a good idea...

[House Targaryen]

I've just been informed that Frey has no computer access due to RL circumstances. I will extend his modkill/replacement timer until the end of Day One (11 AM EST). If he does not post before then, I will start looking for a replacement.

[House Targaryen]

Just in case the Late Lord Frey can't make it back here in time, would any unspoiled spectators please PM me if they'd be willing to replace in?

[House Velaryon]

I've just been informed that Frey has no computer access due to RL circumstances. I will extend his modkill/replacement timer until the end of Day One (11 AM EST). If he does not post before then, I will start looking for a replacement.

At least that explains Frey.

Anybody else out there? I seem to pick bad times to be available.

[House Tyrell]

I'm around for a little while longer Vance.

That sums up my feelings pretty well. I would call you reasonable, but that's the kiss of death in mafia. :P

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion about Fossoway based on a comment that's more of an adage about the game of mafia than anything that's going on in this game specifically.

In fact, I was going to call Fossoway out on it earlier because I thought it the type of non-controversial, non-game-at-hand focused statement that only FM would ever make :P

[House Velaryon]

I don't understand how you come to that conclusion about Fossoway based on a comment that's more of an adage about the game of mafia than anything that's going on in this game specifically.

In fact, I was going to call Fossoway out on it earlier because I thought it the type of non-controversial, non-game-at-hand focused statement that only FM would ever make :P

It is something of a mafia truism, I suppose. I tend to react negatively to people who are sooooo sure on day 1 that someone is guilty. I usually feel hopelessly lost on day 1 and I don't understand how people can feel confident. I almost always feel better as the game goes on and we get more information. What Fossoway said reflected my general outlook on mafia, even if it goes without saying.

I do agree that Fossoway has been very non-controversial. Voting for you and then for Frey would hardly bother anyone.

[House Westerling]

Not much happened during my absence.

I don't suspect Bolton, Estermont and Ashford.

Interesting thing is that Tarth seems to get a free pass, whilst everybody else is suspected.

[House Velaryon]

I don't suspect Bolton, Estermont and Ashford.

What are your thoughts on Ashford? He's in my "need more information" category right now.

Interesting thing is that Tarth seems to get a free pass, whilst everybody else is suspected.

I also get "non-controversial vibes" from Tarth, which I never like.

[House Tyrell]

It is something of a mafia truism, I suppose. I tend to react negatively to people who are sooooo sure on day 1 that someone is guilty. I usually feel hopelessly lost on day 1 and I don't understand how people can feel confident. I almost always feel better as the game goes on and we get more information. What Fossoway said reflected my general outlook on mafia, even if it goes without saying.

I do agree that Fossoway has been very non-controversial. Voting for you and then for Frey would hardly bother anyone.

I don't disagree with what he said, just in context it came off as a sort of 'filler' statement. So too does your explanation of why you agree with him which is why I was going to avoid questioning him on it in the first place; It doesn't have anything to do with the game actual.

I'd actually disagree with you on Fossoway's overall 'non-controversial' attitude. Maybe that's just because I'm the focus of his scrutiny though.

For the moment he gets a pass from me as I think he's trying to be helpful.

OK, I'll look at Tarth before I head off...

[House Westerling]

What are your thoughts on Ashford? He's in my "need more information" category right now.

Everybody is in this category.

Asford looks like a player honestly trying to catch our killers.

[House Tyrell]

Nope, not seeing anything super-incriminating with Tarth atm. It's actually got me wondering why his names being thrown around as being particularly suspicious.

He's got a lot of RP, but his accusation of Estermont has more reasoning behind it than a lot of other accusations being bandied about.

OK, I'm off.

ETA: Oh, and yeah, it always pings my radar a bit when someone says they 'don't find so-and-so suspicious' this early in the game.

I know I'm not guilty but I don't come to the same conclusions Westerling does on Ashford at all. He's had little content so far.

Estermont I sort of lump into the same group as Fossoway and Vance at the moment. People who are (trying to look) helpful.

[House Sunglass]

aw, I see what happened. Look, the back and forth seemed to me like Reed was teasing and you were getting upset. On a read that happens after the fact, that is the way it looked to me.

When I looked back again, there was another comment that fit with my original impression, so yes, we cross posted, but added into what I previous thought, it fit my impressions.

Your explanations are still not adding up.

So we cross-posted. That means that your entire opinion was based on posts made prior to post 54. You are claiming that Reed and I had a 'back and forth' during that time period. No such thing ever occurred. Please quote the back and forth for me. Show me where he teased and I got upset.

It never happened. Definitely not prior to post 54, and I'd argue that it didn't happen after that point either.

The only relevant posts were -

Reed to Westerling, post 34 -

No need for apologies. We're at page one, so I say you ought to jump at shadows however much you like! I mean, what else are we going to do? Start a band?

Note that the post was directed to Westerling, not me. So he's clearly not teasing me here.

Estermont to Reed, post 39 -

Don't like this post. I hate exclamation points. Seriously, they always look fake, like the person is trying to come off as light hearted.

Your response to Westerling gives me the impression that you want to avoid conflict.

I point out my suspicion of Reed.

Estermont, post 51 -

That said, I think I'll vote Reed.

I vote for Reed. There still isn't any back and forth or any point where you could describe me as 'upset'.

Reed posts exclamation marks in post 52. Then in post 53, he says -

I could switch to being a jackass if you'd like. That's probably within my repertoire.

That's his first and only response to me during that time period. I never actually respond to him prior to your post, beyond posting my suspicion (excluding the cross-post, which you hadn't read at the time of your post). There's nothing to indicate that I'm upset, or that he's teasing me. If anything, his posts 51 + 52 look like he's upset.

Bottom line - your post doesn't make any sense. It looks as if it was a rushed, forced opinion. I really do have to wonder if you felt pressured to say something new when Bolton asked you how the catchup was going. Especially since I've actually seen an FM get caught in the exact same way in the past.

Ashford

[House Sunglass]

How the hell are these the only posts by Connington?

Hi Tarth.

Targ, any chance you could update the day timer please?

Thanks.

That might be the least amount of participation I've ever seen on day 1, other than players who just don't show up at all (like Frey).

I keep forgetting how small this game is. It feels like we're still waiting on more people to show when in reality pretty much everyone is participating. Has Frey shown up yet?

It's kind of weird that Bolton would mention Frey, but not Connington's lack of participation.

Where is that Frey?

I'm not sure how we're supposed to handle this post. I tried to ignore it, but now it's actually relevant, because the player is another person who mentioned Frey while ignoring Connington. I am pretty certain I know who the game alt is, given the content and context of the post (which is still there and has not been edited). So I want to make a point about that player...but would that violate the alt rules? Mods?