AGOT Mafia Game n= May 2011.

[House Tyrell]

Pretty quiet in here so far today, other than the posts by WW. Hmm.

Garfield, where are you?

*puts out plate of lasagna*

[House Tyrell]

These are the 2 points that I can find to stand against a Mummy symp for Edward theory.

I tried to re-read Krakatoa, which got me thinking I should re-read Garfield, and somehow I got distracted by a brief re-read of Edward. *sigh* All I have come up with so far is that Edward still bothers me for purely gut reasons, Krak is still an unknown for me and I can't see to concentrate on Garfield's posts, it's like I forget them as soon as I read them. I know, oooooooohh so helpful. I will try again with a Garfield read in the morning.

I was an early fan of Wonder Woman, but I don't like this constant butting of heads with Barbie. Yeah, I know there's something about Barbie's posts that makes people want to respond, but it almost seems too much. Could be a nice distraction for Wonder Woman (not enough to put him on a suspect list, just something to file away in my head)

Feel free to meta me. I haven't played in ages and I play the way my time dictates. Is there anything in what I've said that makes you think I'm suspicious? Go ahead and reread me. I'll wait.

Neither one is a big point against the relationship. But I did think they were worth pointing out, so we could have all the information on the table.

[House Connington]

I'm around. I'll go with whoever the group decides on. I don't really know who I suspect more out of Garfield, Mummy and Marple.

[House Upcliff]

To be honest, were I in your shoes, I probably would have freaked out under pressure. It's very hard to play perfectly in that situation. You have to walk the balance between staying consistent with your previously stated opinions, feigning sincerity, and subtly pushing your agenda. I've seen symps/FM give themselves away while being forced on the spot to take a stance on a teammate.

But I'm not you. Divorce yourself from this current situation and ask yourself if I am the type to freak out under pressure. Crack a litte, sure ... but freak the fuck out? Not so much. I was nowhere near the top of any lists besides Simba's and in a good place if I would have just rolled along with the plan.

But I cannot believe you genuinely thought your vote on Simba had a prayer of succeeding minutes before the deadline, when everyone online was against lynching him.

I didn't think I could get him lynched, but I wanted to register my opinion. It's pissing me off to no end that people are reading the reason for my freak out as the vote on Edward. That was pure coincidence. He could have been leading a vote on anyone with those words 'lets do it' and I would have had the same reaction.

...The fact that you're struggling to defend yourself with WIFOM rather than look for who's guilty pretty much confirms you as evil.

I know I look like crap, I can see that. I haven't found anything objectively that would say I'm innocent. I have been looking but I haven't gotten very far yet. I did my re-read of Day 1 and haven't found anything of interest yet except that quote I pulled out by me. (which I realize is WIFOM, but it's all I got) It was very late when I left last night and I've just gotten back to the computer, so when exactly am I supposed to have had time to search out the guilties between Edward's flip and now. Prior to that I was (again) in catch-up mode and worried about Simba. I don't think that's a fair assessment.

[House Upcliff]

Neither one is a big point against the relationship. But I did think they were worth pointing out, so we could have all the information on the table.

This is what I have been trying to say - I have had nothing good to say about Edward all freaking game. I have not gone after his top suspect nor even given an indication I would look her way. I'm not saying I was calling for his head, but if I were a symp that would be beyond poor play. At this point I am kind of resigned to being lynched if it comes down to it, but I hate like hell that people will still think I'm a symp after I'm gone when it makes no sense.

[House Upcliff]

I know I was confident in Simba and Sooty being guilty before, but this is different. I am certain of this.

Just quoting this for posterity.

[House Tyrell]

I mentioned yesterday that I spotted a few posts that could be distancing between WW and Edward. Just want to throw them out there, to see what other people think.

WW asks Edward why he hasn't posted an opinion on Starlin, who was a top lynch option -

Oh, I forgot to mention this when I got distracted by the WJ chaos-train:

Edward, I looked back at your posts to see which of the available trains you might be interested in joining, and I was surprised to find that you don't seem to have any opinion on Joseph Starlin at all.

Not "no read", not "I don't know," you just never say anything about what you think about him.

Since he's a prime lynch candidate, this strikes me as odd. So what do you think?

But it turns out that WW was wrong, and had missed Edward's posts about Starlin -

You must have trouble reading. I have said multiple times that I think he is innocent.

I think all three of the lynch candidates are innocent. Will vote to get a lynch on starlin or Ernst but will not vote Simba. He is so clearly innocent it's not even funny.

Now that I think about it, seems like a strange way to distance. Not really a sustainable attack - more of a jab that WW is forced to back off of after admitting his mistake (in another post I didn't quote).

Later, WW posts his rundown of all the players -

I don't think I can do 'tiers' of evil-seeming in any meaningful way right now, because my reads on people are sparse enough that I still prefer to prod someone on whom I have no information, rather than accusing someone for whom I have some minor, ill-defined suspicion. I'll try to do 'tiers' of interest-in-investigating though.

Puff: Needs to talk more, AND seems incredibly overdefensive from what we've seen (286 referencing 279).

--

Ernst Blofeld: I need to reread. I'm concerned with how many posts he has when I considered him in my 'quiet liability' category; I need to check to see if that was spurred by the train on him or if he was just posting many times but with little content. Dodging trains deserves some scrutiny, and unlike the Kat or Simba trains I don't particularly remember why this one didn't happen.

--

Edward: Meta reasons. Scarily quiet. Creepy avatar.

Garfield: Needs to talk more, but seems inconsistent with a newbie killer. Still needs to talk more.

Simba: Doesn't match my memory of WJ's play very well (which, I later realized, is probably because the vast majority of games I played with WJ he was alt-hiding at this point.) As I mentioned before, I think Malcolm's early insights have a surprising accuracy (which does not mean over 50%) despite his inabilty to explain them properly, and Malcolm's early insight was against Simba. I can't put my finger on anything he's doing that's specifically suspicious, though.

--- (not currently interested in lynching/pressing below this line)

Humpty Dumpty: Seems meta-consistent with what little I know about her. Behavior doesn't seem particularly evil. Null read on a more vocal person means not currently interested.

Krakatoa: Meta-consistent, not particularly evil behavior. My gut is twitching though, she may be rising a tier.

Miss Marple: Consistent and no read. I need to reread and form an opinion. Barbed cookies are a concern.

The Mummy: As Marple.

--

Showgirl Barbie: Just because you're always wrong amd a liabilty to your team doesn't mean you're evil. Usually the opposite.

Sooty: It's Halo. He can kill himself without my help. If he doesn't do something suicidally bizarre, then I'll start thinking he's evil then, but I'll give him the chance first. Likely to move wherever after I hear Halo's overall thoughts and compare to Sotty's strangeness.

Edward calls him out for making such an empty post -

This post is a complete waste. There is nothing in this other than "meta" reasoning and a lot of qualifiers (ie: not particularly evil behaviour). From this, I can't tell if you suspect anyone or if you suspect everyone.

Also, please explain to me why you're not interested in lynching Mummy/Marple? You said you have no read and need a reread to form an opinion yet they're in your no lynch tier. That doesn't make sense to me.

That was one of the exchanges that really stood out to me. Edward attacks WW, and its the type of attack that is usually accompanied by a vote. Without a vote, it sort of looks like distancing.

WW has a few questions for Edward -

Edward:

In #177 you suspect Kat for doing vote analysis before the lynch is over. Could you explain why you think this is evil (as opposed to unusual) behavior?

In #344 after the WJ/Mina scuffle you proclaim Simba "still" innocent. Unless I'm missing something again, you still haven't told us why you believe this. WJ himself has just said that his rudeness is a null tell, not a sign of innocence (in #515 under the sixth quote).

Edwards response to the first question (not sure if he skipped the 2nd question, or if I just failed to quote his response there) -

What's the difference between unusual and evil? We're talking about Kat, she's not really unusual. As for the reasoning, I didn't like that she was setting up those two positions. A vote analysis takes place after the vote for a reason, the spots aren't generally the important but how the lynch takes form. To call out the last two spots before a lynch even happened with no analysis of the train seemed wrong to me. I don't know why an innocent would limit the analysis like that.

I didn't quote the back and forth beyond that, but you get the point. Kind of a softball question/answer that looks like an attack on Edward, but doesn't really put him in danger.

WW goes after Edward again, this time defending Kat -

Seriously, Edward? Highlighting wishy-washy word choice from Kat? Kat is always wishy-washy in her language. I'm concerned that she may be following too much, though, as you pointed out yesterday; I'm reading back to see if I find any counter-examples.

And then he points out a contradiction in Edward's behavior vs. Edward's criticism of other players -

Hmm... :uhoh:

I'll let this speak for itself.

note that the first reasoning regarding why Simba appeared innocent appeared in the third-quoted post, 23 hours and change after the first one, after pressure to reveal reasoning.

This (plus your lowish post count) is probably why you've felt off to me, Edward. And I'm not sure there's anything 'evil' about it, just unusual. :dunno:

So that was the interaction over the first few days that had me wondering if they could be distancing. Lots of back and forth, but no true attacks accompanied by a vote. Just stuff that could easily lead to a case/vote later, if it was necessary to create further distance.

I'll have to check out their later interactions, to see how things develop.

[House Upcliff]

I'm back to wanting to lynch Simba...who has no chance in hell of actually getting lynched today. :/

Um, what should I do first? Explain why Simba is my top suspect again (the one problem is that I'm getting paranoid of Starlin and Sooty, both of whom suspected him), or reread the thread to decide between Starlin and Blofeld?

So you can vote for someone who has no chance in hell of being lynched, but I can't?

[House Upcliff]

And, by the way, I didn't like Marple's reaction to the whole situation. Her first reaction is to run down a check list and comment briefly on what happened, but with little emotion. All she can say about getting Edward is 'huh, didn't see that coming'. Then she gets on my good side because she sees that I will be looking for friends. Funny thing is, she's the only one who is seeing the truth and it's probably because she knows I'm innocent. :bang:

Marple

Garfield

Humpty Dumpty

Krakatoa

Wonder Woman

Simba

Sooty

So I'm thinking that most people have me, Marple and Garfield as the top suspects and I can't see anyone else getting lynched today without a huge shake up. We only have (worst case) 2 lynches to get this right. I honestly think the best bet is Marple. Garfield is possible but I feel it's more of a cop-out vote. Fuck. If I hadn't screwed up so spectacularly we'd be in a much better position.

[House Tyrell]

Marple

Garfield

Humpty Dumpty

Krakatoa

Wonder Woman

Simba

Sooty

So if we insist on the choice being between Wonder Woman and Kat today, you'd vote for Kat?

I know people think this is transparent, but I'll point out that nobody thought Edward was getting lynched last night either, until I switched my vote to him, WW jumped on, and the momentum got going.

[House Upcliff]

Yes, that is my list right now. It's not that I think Kat is more likely guilty, just that WW is more likely innocent. I would have a hard time voting for the bottom three from my list. You because of the Edward vote and how it went down (mainly I think you'd have asked for someone else to pull a vote for Edward before trying to spring a faux symp trap if you were partnered with Edward and you didn't go to bed right away) Habits die hard though, and that's why Sooty is below you. I just feel there is no way in hell he is guilty. WW followed your Edward vote too quickly for me to see them working together.

[House Connington]

To Gert's credit, if she is evil, she's not giving up on trying to clear herself in a situation that looks something of a lost cause.

This may just be WIFOM, but if she is symp, I don't see what she's doing now as really helping her boss (presuming they're one of Marple or Garfield or WW)... she'd want to make sure she's lynched instead of them.

[House Yronwood]

And, by the way, I didn't like Marple's reaction to the whole situation. Her first reaction is to run down a check list and comment briefly on what happened, but with little emotion.

it was 6am---I don't have many emotions at that hour.

And since it was me or Krat when I went to bed just 2 hours before the day ended and Edward had no votes "didn't see it coming" is right.

Then she gets on my good side because she sees that I will be looking for friends. Funny thing is, she's the only one who is seeing the truth and it's probably because she knows I'm innocent.

Why would I care what you think of me? Most people think you're guilty and aren't going to listen to their suspects about others. I actually can have an opinion, ya know? I even backed it up.

People aren't going to listen to me either---it pretty much sucks.

[House Upcliff]

I'd actually have a hard time voting for Kat or Mina either, although I would take great pleasure in voting off Mina right now, I don't see it as a good move.

[House Upcliff]

People aren't going to listen to me either---it pretty much sucks.

:grouphug:

Oh I am laughing at the people who called me out for my logical play right about now.

[House Upcliff]

Simba

And Edward ... where the hell are you?

eta: just realize Edward and I have the same post count :blush:

More WIFOM arguements. Me calling out Edward for being low-profile. Not original, but why tack that onto a big post of me justifying my vote on Simba?

[Magic Mirror]

This will be my last post until this evening (at which point I'll be able to reread Edward as well as the clusterfuck at the end of D3), but just checking in:

I'll admit Gert is really sowing my paranoia right now, simply because she's so persistent and is really playing the part of the doomed innocent who hates my guts for attacking her. I seem to be making a lot of friends this game. <_<

Also...I am so, so sorry for having saved Marple on D2.

My tiers are pretty similar to Wonder Woman's:

Mummy

Marple, Garfield

Sooty

Krakatoa, Wonder Woman

Simba

[House Upcliff]

Just lost a bunch of multi-quotes and I'm not going to gather them again right now as I have to take off. Mainly it was a bit of bickering between Edward and Mina that could as easily be construed as distancing as the WW comments are. Why is no one looking at her again? Is it purely because of her and WJ's exchange of comments?

Back to my re-read when I get back.

[House Connington]

We should really speed this game along. You know, on account of the world ending tomorrow and all...

[House Connington]

I know some people have already done tiers, but I'd like everyone to list their probably innocents and very probable innocents only. You don't need to bother putting yourself.

Mine:

PI: Krak, WW

VPI: Simba, Humpty

Also feel free to explain your reasoning...