Jaime L Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I've always believed there are two kinds of people in this world. Those who's hearts get torn apart reading Catelyn's plight and those without souls. What kind are you? Everything and everyone that mattered most to her were torn away in her lifetime, and on top of this, she was denied the sanctity of a clean death. Yes, she made a handful mistakes, but show me a POV character who hasn't. Further her intuition time and time again was born out to be true. She lost her husband, her children, her father...as her world gradually decended into black. How can her flaws be compared to her tragedy? I don't even have kids and I can empathize with what she must've gone through. Why can't you? Hers is the most heartwrenching tale I've experienced in a long while. I'm not usually moved by words on a page, it usually doesn't affect me to this extent and leave this cold void in the pit of my stomach. But I was dying right along with her at the Red Wedding. Catelyn Defenders: Roll call! It's time for people to pick a side and draw lines in the sand. This is something I believe in *very* strongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayer Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 There's an existing Catelyn defense thread a bit lower on the page. Anyway, count me as one of the soulless monsters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 There's an existing Catelyn defense thread a bit lower on the page. I'm well aware. I posted in it 2 weeks ago...and remain surprised it's still around 300+ posts later. Only problem is, it's basically unbreachable at this point. This thread is less for arguing minutae and more for picking sides. I'm curious where people come down on this. And a fresh start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhead_ginny Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Seeing as I started that Catelyn defense thread, I'm on Catelyn's side. I also found a lot of new points in her defense while rereading AGOT again. I'm not sure whether to go back to the thread and point it out or not, seeing as it's turned into an arguement about Edmure, Hoster and Tywin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commando penguin Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I've always believed there are two kinds of people in this world. Those who's hearts get torn apart reading Catelyn's plight and those without souls. What kind are you? i guess i have no soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayer Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I'm curious where people come down on this. And a fresh start. A reasonable goal, I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brendan the Voyager Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I am a heartless monster I guess. What reasons are there to like the ignorant wnech again? Oh yea thats right none. Just those bleeding heart pansies and their bleeting platitudes of her tragedies. Most of the tragedies in her life were caused by she herself. Here is my line.. Thinks Catelyn is a stupid woman. Ser Brendan the Voyager! -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thinks Catelyn is a tragic hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 3-2 Haters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qyburn Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I'll have you know I'm a soulless monster and I still felt sorry for Catelyn. If the people on this board hated everyone who was tricked by Littlefinger then there'd hardly be a likeable character in the series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingslayer Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 3-2 Haters. Can I have two votes? I mean, tears of joy rolled down my face when they cut her throat; surely that counts for something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Vlad Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 Frankly, I don't like Catelyn. Something about her rubs me the wrong way - completely irrational, I'll admit. But I find her character interesting, and I can understand her motivations. That makes me, more or less, one of Catelyn's staunchest defenders. It's really ironic. Catelyn is a tragic hero - her love and desire to protect her family led to her downfall and (indirectly) to the downfall of her house. The really hardcore Stark fanboys hate her becuase they see her as the reason for Robb's downfall, and some of the Lannister fanboys think she's an idiot. I say some Lannister fanboys because I tend to have very different opinions than most of 'em, even though I am one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 I'll have you know I'm a soulless monster and I still felt sorry for Catelyn. I'm honestly shocked at that. Can I have two votes? I mean, tears of joy rolled down my face when they cut her throat; surely that counts for something? You're off my Christmas Card list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Brendan the Voyager Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I lost all faith in Catelyn when she had Tyrion and he proved to her that she had been lied to. She knew that there was no way he would have bet against his brother. She had doubt in her eyes and yet she continued to think he was the killer. With no motive and evidence of Littlefingers lies to her. Now she is going to hang Brienne who is a character that I love. I was glad when she died and sad when she showed up again. This un-cat is going to drive the realms into more chaos the stupid bitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodor Clegane Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I'm not the biggest fan of Cat but I can see why she would behave the way she has. Very believable. But i really dislike Uncat. She's awful. I wished she stayed dead. So to answer your question i would defend and I often do. Until she died that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Qyburn Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 SPOILER: AFFCI don't think Lady Stoneheart should count for this discussion, since she's undergone a major psychological change from the Catelyn of ASOS. Jaime Lannister, I'm not surprised. I realise that I have alot less empathy than most people. However, what many of the anti-cats in this thread have proposed as "bleeding heart" is something I would lay at their door. I think that the majority of people hate Cat because of the fact that some of her actions may have indirectly led to Robb's downfall. This is, of course, unfair, since nothing Catelyn did was remotely as stupid as Robb marrying Jeyne Westerling. The Lannister fans, on the other hand, most likely hate her for her treatment of Tyrion. I think that this is also unfair, since it's only natural that Tyrion's innocence is obvious from his point of view. If we never had Tyrion POV chapters, then I'd bet many on this board would have had no problem with her actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Wolf Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I fly the flag of the Catelyn Defense! And I firmly believe if Robb had listened to his mother more often, he might still be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime L Posted February 16, 2006 Author Share Posted February 16, 2006 6-3 Defenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jagged Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I am a proud card carrying soulless monsters. I just wish the bitch had stayed dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
commando penguin Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I mean, tears of joy rolled down my face when they cut her throat; surely that counts for something? me to, good to see im not the only one. I don't think Lady Stoneheart should count for this discussion, since she's undergone a major psychological change from the Catelyn of ASOS. i dont think she has to tell the truth. i can see Cat acting the same way as un-Cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ironwill Posted February 16, 2006 Share Posted February 16, 2006 I never really saw any reason to hate Cat. She was never my faverite charecter but I did like her. So count me on the defense. Thats my short anserw so you do not need to read my rant below . The cons are: 1. She kidnaps Tryion. 2. She frees Jamie 3. She is mean to Jon 4. She is stuck up 5. She makes stupid decisions. Well I call to the defense... Myself! 1. Indeed she dose kidnap Tyrion. Poor little Tyrion who we know is innocent, as we have a window inside his head. The fact that her oldest childhood friend, the friend who fought a dual against a man who could have had Littlefingers guts for garters over Cat, and Lord Varys the master of information, confrimed that Tyrion had the blade was a heap of evidence. Yes it was a bad call, but it was that or smile and nod as Tyrion announced her presence to the world. Put your self in her place. Say someone had tried to kill your father, and the accused walked right into the bar you were in with a host of friends, and the accused person has the gall to smile and wave at you. Similar situation. 2. She dose indeed free Jamie. But place this against the fact that Cat had lost Bran and Rickon, and her two daughters were in the hands of the people that killed her husband. Perhaps it was not the best call to make, but against the fact that if Robb died in the field the north would by law go to Sansa. It would make sense to get all potential heirs out of enemy hands. Again put yourself in her place. 3. The fact that she is a bitch to Jon has never struck me as anything special. Look at Cersi who goes out of her way to kill all of Robert's bastards. Cat by comparison was exceedingly tolerent. And her wanting Jon out of the picture makes perfect sense. The sucsess and well being of her children depended on them inheriting from Ned, and Jon could shoot that to pieces. In a patralinial decent Jon and Jon's children were down right deadly to the future Starks. 4. She is stuck up. Bear in mind that in this sociey is built on the backs of the lower class and as a child of a great house she is entitaled to a lot of respect. 5. She makes stupid decisions, and who dosen't? In fact I could say that Tywin made a stupid call by haveing Elia and her children killed in the Sack of Kingslanding! Ultimately it seems to boil down to who empathizes with Cat and who dose not, but thats rather obvious . I also like uncat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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