Question about Arya's actions

[sDad]

I'm about half way through ASoS, and haven't been able to figure out why after Roose Bolton took Harrenhal in CoK, and started flying Robb's banners, Arya didn't present herself to him.

When Yoren took her from the city, she seemed happy to be going home. She leaves Harrenhal at the end of ACoK, when she knows the Mummers will be taking over. And at least what I've read of her chapters so far in ASoS she's pretty agitated to get back to her family.

With that, It's been at the back of my mind when I read her chapters to wonder why she didn't stand up and say something earlier.

Again, I'm about half way through SoS. The last thing that I've read about her is

She's been taken by The Hound, who says he's going to get her to Catelyn for the reward

[Ser Celery]

I may be wrong, but

I think it was because Roose Bolton had noone in his entourage who knew her from Winterfell and she doubted he would even believe her if she told him.

[M'lady Cynthia Rayder]

I believe Arya to be scared of everyone and everything, meaning she doesn't trust anyone who is NOT a Stark... So instead of revealing herself to Bolton, and risking being ransomed or who knows what, she decides to run herself and try to get home as best she can...

Just my thoughts... I am interested to know what others think of this as well... Thanks.

[sDad]

I may be wrong, but

I think it was because Roose Bolton had noone in his entourage who knew her from Winterfell and she doubted he would even believe her if she told him.

That makes sense. Having scenes in SoS where characters talk frankly about how rare it is for even someone whose taken vows, to uphold them when nobody's looking, coupled with what happened with Ned, I can see where she'd have trust issues.

I guess I'm trying to square that with how easy it seemed for her to trust Yoren. Maybe it was just a matter of taking him at his word, since he was part of the night's watch like Jon?

Or, to second guess my own idea, maybe it's an inherent mis-trust of "nobility"?

[Lucreel]

I think ya'll are missing something. . .

When Roose Bolton takes Harranhall, the first thing he did was commit war crimes. He put those women in the stocks to be raped by anyone who cared to, put servants to the sword simply for serving (as if they had any choice - they would have been killed by Lannister if they hadn't), etc.

Remember, Syrio taught Arya to "See with her eyes". She can see what sort of man Roose Bolton is. It doesn't matter if he flies the Direwolf banner next to the Flayed Man, he is *not* an honorable and good man, and she clearly sees that. He is dangerous. He's cut from the same cloth as the Lannisters. I think she absolutely did the right thing stealing the horse, and even slitting that guard's throat. It's unfortunate, but it really had to be done.

[Ned'sHead]

Probably the same reason why she wasted her Jaquen's kills on scrubs while the Mountain and Tywin were in the castle. And the same reson why Ned gave everyone in the world a heads up about Joffery's lineage before telling (or eventually not telling) Robert. And the same reason Rob sent Theon home. And the same reason why...well, that would be a spoiler at this point in the book.

The Starks are idiots.

[Lucreel]

Ned: To be fair, she is only like 11 years old. Most children of 11 *are* idiots - but she at least seems less idiotic than most.

[Ned'sHead]

True. I'm just goofing around...mostly.

It does seem, though, that the Starks (at least as far as I've read) have a genetic predisposition for missing the course of action that would lead to a positive outcome.

[Lucreel]

True. I'm just goofing around...mostly.

It does seem, though, that the Starks (at least as far as I've read) have a genetic predisposition for missing the course of action that would lead to a positive outcome.

I tend to agree. But, in Arya's case, I think that in not trusting anyone (at least until she did; and when [spoiler from maybe a few chapters later, when Arya and Gendry arrive at the sign of the Kneeling King]

she trusted the man she recognized from Winterfell

, I kind of think that was something of a mistake too), she actually was taking the wisest course of action. I layed out my argument above for why I think Roose Bolton was not to be trusted, so I'll not tire you with repetition. :)

[lezboyd]

It does seem, though, that the Starks (at least as far as I've read) have a genetic predisposition for missing the course of action that would lead to a positive outcome.

I just finished Chapter 38 of ASoS, and so far I agree with that statement. Ned, Robb, Theon (Ned's ward), Arya, Sansa (the most), and Catelyn have all done stuff that makes you go 'Stupid, Stupid, Stupid'! Bran seems to be the only one who hasn't so far, IMHO, although it is not for lack of trying.

He is on his way to the Wall, and keeps insisting to take the Kingsroad, and it is Jojen who forbids it. Else, he would have presented himself right into the hands of Bolton's bastard son.

[Fleur de Lys]

Probably the same reason why she wasted her Jaquen's kills on scrubs while the Mountain and Tywin were in the castle. And the same reson why Ned gave everyone in the world a heads up about Joffery's lineage before telling (or eventually not telling) Robert. And the same reason Rob sent Theon home. And the same reason why...well, that would be a spoiler at this point in the book.

The Starks are idiots.

You are so right in a way, but the Starks are not stupid, just naive, with a strong sense of justice and honor. Good guys are finishing last so far. These are the 'stark' realities of human interactions that Martin represents so very well. The Stark family is also fairly isolated from the rest of the realm, and they have a certain provincial naiveté where people are considered basically as good as they themselves are, in general, even when they should know better. They are learning fast the harsh way, but will that eventually corrupt them as well? Methinks Martin has a fondness for the Shakepearian tragedy, and irony,which worries me but... c'est la vie!

[sDad]

I tend to agree. But, in Arya's case, I think that in not trusting anyone (at least until she did; and when [spoiler from maybe a few chapters later, when Arya and Gendry arrive at the sign of the Kneeling King]

she trusted the man she recognized from Winterfell

, I kind of think that was something of a mistake too), she actually was taking the wisest course of action. I layed out my argument above for why I think Roose Bolton was not to be trusted, so I'll not tire you with repetition. :)

I think this, and the other post you made about how Roose handles things when he takes the castle are probably a lot of it. Maybe it comes down to conditioning. Sansa got wrapped up/conditioned to believe in the system of nights, bannermen, honor, etc.

Arya, through combination of being young and unruly, never did. She trusts her family, friends and people she directly related to those two groups. Thinking about it that way, I can square the trust of Yoren in my head because he's a black brother like Benjen and Jon. That also goes in line with the spoiler noted above.

Since starting this thread, I've finished SoS, and am interested to see where she goes next.

[gillyflower]

I tend to agree. But, in Arya's case, I think that in not trusting anyone (at least until she did; and when [spoiler from maybe a few chapters later, when Arya and Gendry arrive at the sign of the Kneeling King]

she trusted the man she recognized from Winterfell

, I kind of think that was something of a mistake too), she actually was taking the wisest course of action. I layed out my argument above for why I think Roose Bolton was not to be trusted, so I'll not tire you with repetition. :)

Looking back, yes, I thought that was also a mistake on her part but at the time she's desperate and felt helpless as a little girl has the right to be. Seeing a familiar face - Harwin - not to mention one of his father's men, meant a ticket to Riverrun for Arya.

I was as disappointed as Arya when she learned that she is to be taken as a highborn captive to Lord Beric Dondarrion. But I guess it's a blessing in disguise, her not arriving in Riverrun in time to catch up with Cat and Robb. It saved her from the Red Wedding.

[HaraktheHirsute]

I'm not sure if the fates suffered by the Starks are comparable to Shakesepearean tragedies, in which the protagonists usually help to bring about their own downfall.

You are so right in a way, but the Starks are not stupid, just naive, with a strong sense of justice and honor. Good guys are finishing last so far. These are the 'stark' realities of human interactions that Martin represents so very well. The Stark family is also fairly isolated from the rest of the realm, and they have a certain provincial naiveté where people are considered basically as good as they themselves are, in general, even when they should know better. They are learning fast the harsh way, but will that eventually corrupt them as well? Methinks Martin has a fondness for the Shakepearian tragedy, and irony,which worries me but... c'est la vie!

I'm not sure if stupidity doesn't have something to do with it. For instance, Robb didn't want to besmirch Jeyne's honor so he married her, but by honoring her, he was being dishonorable to Lord Frey. Of course, he apologized as best he could and there's obviously no excuse for Frey's foul treachery, but Robb invited trouble by going back on his promise. That was both dishonorable and stupid.

[Tammy]

Probably the same reason why she wasted her Jaquen's kills on scrubs while the Mountain and Tywin were in the castle. And the same reson why Ned gave everyone in the world a heads up about Joffery's lineage before telling (or eventually not telling) Robert. And the same reason Rob sent Theon home. And the same reason why...well, that would be a spoiler at this point in the book.

The Starks are idiots.

Yeah, I couldn't figure out why she wasted her Jaquen kills, but her not revealing herself to Roose Bolton actually shows just how smart she is.

[SummerGhostofNymeria]

I'm not sure if stupidity doesn't have something to do with it. For instance, Robb didn't want to besmirch Jeyne's honor so he married her, but by honoring her, he was being dishonorable to Lord Frey. Of course, he apologized as best he could and there's obviously no excuse for Frey's foul treachery, but Robb invited trouble by going back on his promise. That was both dishonorable and stupid.

I don't think it's necessarily stupid. None of the Starks are stupid in my opinion (well with the exception of Sansa, and Rickon but he's still a small child). The thing that I see when it comes to Ned, Robb, Jon (even if he's technically a "Snow" he's more Stark than anything), and Catelyn is that they tend to do what they feel is the honorable thing to do. The "right" thing to do seems most important for those who are mature enough to understand it. Ned was an honorable man first, you see he wasn't greedy (neither are the other Starks for that matter) so he would stand up and argue for what's right first whether it helped or hindered him he did not care.

Robb followed his fathers actions as best he could for a young man of sixteen. He did foolish things, but that's to be expected for his age, and yet he still did what he could to correct it, even though it cost him in the end. He knew what the consequences were, he did his best, it was Frey's treachery that gave him his fate. It was and old mans foolish pride, and disgusting greed.

As for Sansa, well she still wants to live in a world of songs, and although that's changed a little she is still far too trusting.

Arya on the other hand, you have to look at her age, and the situations she's been in. All she wants, at first, is to get back to Winterfell, to her family. Along the way she's learned she can't trust many, if any, people. All she's done is in an attempt to save herself.

Realize that, as readers, we tend to see and know more of the people, environment, events around a character than they do at any given time so what may sometimes (though not all the time) may appear to be a stupid decision, in their shoes, given what they know, the choice isn't so irrational.

[Alan of Rosby]

You can't expect the Starks to act like Vulcans. They seem to be the closest thing to a functional, loving family in Westeros and suddenly they've become the royal family in a civil war. They're not emotionally prepared for that circumstance. The kind of people that are suited for that are broken people like Tywin or Cersei, who are as determined and resourceful as they are ruthless.

[Silmarien]

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<p>I'm about half way through ASoS, and haven't been able to figure out why after Roose Bolton took Harrenhal in CoK, and started flying Robb's banners, Arya didn't present herself to him.</p>

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<p>When Yoren took her from the city, she seemed happy to be going home. She leaves Harrenhal at the end of ACoK, when she knows the Mummers will be taking over. And at least what I've read of her chapters so far in ASoS she's pretty agitated to get back to her family.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>With that, It's been at the back of my mind when I read her chapters to wonder why she didn't stand up and say something earlier.</p>

<p> </p>

<p>Again, I'm about half way through SoS. The last thing that I've read about her is</p>

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She's been taken by The Hound, who says he's going to get her to Catelyn for the reward

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She doesn't trust Roose Bolton is what it boils down to, IMO. With good reason....</p>

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